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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    I never understood this.

    Top guilds don't care what class is on top. They just take it. That's why every member has multiple alts and can play multiple specs.

    In top guilds you aren't a Guardian druid. You are a tank that can play all 6 tank specs perfectly and just switch to whatever is needed in the moment.
    I don't know why you are replying this obvious fact to my post, but yes you are right. You should probably read what I replied to since you seem to be missing the context.

  2. #142
    I play: warrior, monk ret, dh, dk.
    And no off this 5 class is harder than the other. I also play long time mage and also mage isn't hard to play.

    Sry but in pve their is no hard to play class. Right stats right rotation that's it.
    The only game changing aspect is how a player move and avoid down time.
    To use the right rotation isn't hard and was never hard im pve and since autohit resets, proccs etc are irrelevant or easy to fill in rotation, you can't talk about skill.

    The only hard to master aspect and class in this game is rogue in high end 3s arena.

    Dh and frost dk have nearly the same button to use in pve than the rotation of a firemage, a ret, a monk.
    Nearly every dd spec is about 4 main ability and a lot of shit. Off CDs and CDs with a CD longer than 30 sec are simply makros that's all.

    So every class should have 1 spec that bring equal dps to the other classes.

    Dh: demonsbite, glaive tempest, chaos strike, bladedance, eyebeam are 5 abilities.
    Monk: sunrise kick, fof, tiger palm, blackout kick, dragon punch are 5 abilities

    Yeah both could spec more aktiv abilities but the simple rotation is that.
    The rest of the talents and the impact talents have is the problem.

    Dh needs a lot of talents baseline (fel blade, first blood, glaive tempest, demonic, fel eruption or master of glaive).
    Than they should fill the slots with talents that change the rotation or give us more burst, more st damage, more range damage etc.
    Old talents like blood let, or a off cd out of meta.
    Meta is the next thing.
    A 4 min off CD with less damage impact than the most 1 or 2 min CDs in game like: avatar, wings, cumbustion, xuen, storm-earth-fire etc.
    The idea was nice and fits to the class but it doesn't fit to game 2 addons later.

    For me they have to rework havoc complete to fix all the issues the spec has

  3. #143
    Havoc is a complete joke. Even our AoE DPS is bad.

    Not quite. Spec should be balanced around the average player.
    Absolutely not, the average player isn't even executing his rotation properly. If you balance around them the competitive scene will ALWAYS be a mess. There's a reason Riot doesn't balance around Silver.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    Havoc is a complete joke. Even our AoE DPS is bad.
    I don't see our AoE DPS is bad. Our ST is bad, but our AoE DPS is not bad at all. Otherwise Havoc wouldn't have a quite solid M+ representation:
    https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...ason-1-week-8/

    Well yes, there are better classes. But AoE isn't really our issue.

  5. #145
    I don't know where that representation comes from. Maybe its just my super bad luck but i have been capped at all dungeons +13 for the last 2 weeks and in the last 2 weeks i got a whole 2 invites for a +14. I am spamming the dungeon finder for 3h+ every day and no one seems to want a DH, its all mages/boomies/hunters. It's damn annoying to be a Havoc DH to say the least.

  6. #146
    keep trying. I've pugged to a 1350 io. Working on those 16's now. If you ever make a group u see the metric ton of dps that sign up. It does take sometimes 10-15 min to find a group but there are ppl out there. DL a addon to see the current groups make up too, u have better chance if its a non-VDH tank. (those exist too).

    Keep at it man Havocs are just fine in my book

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimsum84 View Post
    keep trying. I've pugged to a 1350 io. Working on those 16's now. If you ever make a group u see the metric ton of dps that sign up. It does take sometimes 10-15 min to find a group but there are ppl out there. DL a addon to see the current groups make up too, u have better chance if its a non-VDH tank. (those exist too).

    Keep at it man Havocs are just fine in my book
    DHs get another 5% buff to abilities.

    how's it now?

  8. #148
    Probably not enough, like the main class responses have been our AoE cleave is fine. Really do decent numbers in M+ but could use a buff to Chaos Strike or the MT target of eye beam still. Either way tho I'm able to avoid the bottom of the charts in M+ pretty good.

    Too bad alot of focus is drawn from the bar charts from raid bosses. ST raid bosses just don't do justice to the kit but its what people will focus on.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimsum84 View Post
    keep trying. I've pugged to a 1350 io. Working on those 16's now. If you ever make a group u see the metric ton of dps that sign up. It does take sometimes 10-15 min to find a group but there are ppl out there. DL a addon to see the current groups make up too, u have better chance if its a non-VDH tank. (those exist too).

    Keep at it man Havocs are just fine in my book
    Finally today i've got an invite into a +14 and now i am already 3x14 done with 1 14++. As said mybe its just my super bad luck with trying to get into grps, but so far i can say Havoc is more than fine with higher keys, i feel i could push +17 easy with my gear, it's just that the other classes are much better and can do it with less effort. The 3% buff didnt really do much but hey its better than nothing i guess. Hope Blizz will level the classes further soon. I dont mind being bottom DPS but not by a 30% margin.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Allseye View Post
    I don't see our AoE DPS is bad. Our ST is bad, but our AoE DPS is not bad at all. Otherwise Havoc wouldn't have a quite solid M+ representation:


    Well yes, there are better classes. But AoE isn't really our issue.

    M+ representation means nothing, we're talking about the class' damage not its popularity.


    On Kael we're behind every class except Sham and Pally

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    DHs get another 5% buff to abilities.

    how's it now?
    Still way too weak. We're behind by 40% on some fights compared to the top spot. There is nothing Havoc is good at right now.

    PVP, M+, Raids. We're bad in all.
    Last edited by Kelduril; 2021-02-04 at 07:34 PM.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    M+ representation means nothing, we're talking about the class' damage not its popularity.


    On Kael we're behind every class except Sham and Pally

    - - - Updated - - -



    Still way too weak. We're behind by 40% on some fights compared to the top spot. There is nothing Havoc is good at right now.

    PVP, M+, Raids. We're bad in all.
    Well, its okay if you personally think in this way. Many others dont :-). M+ representation wouldn't be that high, if our dmg is that shitty as you state it. There are better specs of course, but AoE as DH is fine, we dont need an overall bump. We simply need a ST buff as many mentioned...at least to bring us in line at the moment. Whole class design is another thing.

    Kael is not a classic cleave fight. Adds often spread or arent well positioned for our cleave.

    PvP has its own rules, there has never been a proper balance.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Allseye View Post
    M+ representation wouldn't be that high, if our dmg is that shitty as you state it.

    h t t p s : / / w ww . w a r c r a f t l o g s . c o m / z o n e / s t at i s t i c s / 2 5

    Classes that are ahead of Havoc in M+ according to warcraft logs:

    Mage
    Rogue
    Druid
    Hunter
    Warlock
    Monk
    Warrior
    Death Knight

    8 classes out of 12.

    I don't know where you got the idea that representation means performance, but you are mistaken. DH is below average.

    In Single Target it's bottom tier.

    Kael is not a classic cleave fight
    Yes it is? Adds are stacked on the tank at the start and in p2.

    But sure, let's look at Huntsman altimor instead.

    We're only ahead of Shaman there. So this myth that we have good cleave is just that, fiction.
    Last edited by Kelduril; 2021-02-09 at 09:07 PM.

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