View Poll Results: Will Alleria become corrupted?

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  • Yes

    75 60.98%
  • No

    48 39.02%
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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    Again getting into the voices and who makes the voices and where they come from doesn't really matter.

    The point is once you use the void, the voices are there. From Old Gods, From Xal'atath, from other Naaru, from the Void Gods, from corrupted Naaru, from Powerful Old God Agents. All those voices are there and are evil. Alleria opened that door and so long as that door is open, she's vulnerable to corruption. The deeper one goes into the void the stronger the voices get.

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    So you think Xe'ra is THE light and you're saying that me saying that she's just a Naaru is headcanon? I think you would have the burden of proof to show that Xe'ra is actually the light. The cinematic isn't evidence.
    Again.. I think you are missing the point and why dont you just anwser the question? I am not even saying that.. you say she believes this and that. But who is saying that? Not her.
    Her speach in the cinematic was to get Illidan at her side.. when he refused she became.. not so friendly. Why did she wanted him to turn to the light so bad? To gain an ally? or does the light maybe has its own set of goals. We just dont know that(yet)

    But saying he is healed because she said so is shortsighted imo.

    like I said she was highly seductive and I said she is operating out of the light. Essentially I think she speaks for the light in a way.. she is not helping illidan.. persee more like her own goals or the light goals. Some one earlierwas suggesting that the light operates the same as the shadowlands and might have more then just one light source. Maybe there are two groups in that realm.. rebels fighting for full controll. The good ones/bad ones. Thinking way ahead of time here, but they could.. hear me out could potentially explain some realy big lore moments through this realm. I mean there is this whole debate going about the light helping tirion against the lich king. Why and how did the light do that? etc and that is just one example.


    Edit: the guy I meant before is Lortraxion( the golden dreadlord) and I think with what we know about the dreadlords.. that he will turn against the light.. (if he can) someday. If its true that dreadlords can give in in any source off power and still be true to their leaders.. then its a matter of time before it happends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    I assume the Light Expansion will be followed by defections from the Alliance and Scarletts joining Yrel.
    I hope the scarlets will get involved and that forshadowing is true. I think we deserve an explanation on the whole light wielding fanatics on why and what their true goal is. I am just not a fan of light and void lords. To me right now it sounds realy cheesy.. as in just another threat created to top the old gods or the Legion ffs.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2020-11-23 at 08:06 PM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Yes but this can be applied to practically *any* form of magic. Arcane is addicting, and the further into Arcane you get the closer you get to batshit-insane Azshara/Malygos levels of power and madness too.

    Just because the whispers are there doesn't mean an individual *has* to go mad. We simply don't know enough about the voices there to make a clear judgement call on what the long-term effects could be, just as we think becoming full demon from using Fel is the absolute *worst* that can happen to an individual, making them completely evil. Yet that's not the case with Illidan and we see that even he is able to 'tame the storm' of corruption by embracing it fully. And sure, at one point he was mad, and arguably even now we could say he's pretty bat-shit crazy, but he's not inherently evil; and that's my point.

    Good and Evil aren't defined by magic, and not wholly by the whispers of the dark agents who master the Void either. It's playing out the same as what we once knew of Necromancy and Fel magic; dark magic that corrupts the user but now we have examples of Good users of Necromancy and Fel. Heck, we can STILL associate all Fel-magic users as being power-hungry, but we now know that those with strong will can harness it for good rather than defaulting to the evil that the majority uses it for. Even now, we aren't particularly sure if Sargeras is inherently evil, considering we are now exploring the power vacuum left from his absence. From a certain perspective, he was simply harnessing Fel power to fight the Void at all costs, where he could not get any support from the Pantheon to fight against the Void Lords and their agents. It's up to the writers to decide whether they want to end up retconning it fully to make it seem like Sargeras was always just and true (much like they did for Doomhammer)
    The problem here is that you're filtering what the Light and Void is. It's not just magic. They are actually inhabited realms, dimensions if you will. The void realm/dimension is dominated by evil forces. That's what we know with the current state of lore. Evil entities that wish to consume the material world. Who controls the void dimension? the Void Lords who are defined as evil, this hasn't changed and it's not ambiguous. And simply point, those who open the door to the void open the door for corruption. That's what has been shown and its been consistent. And Alleria is no different than the users before her who have delved into vast amount of void, she will subcome to it sooner or later unless there's some sort of intervention.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    The problem here is that you're filtering what the Light and Void is. It's not just magic. They are actually inhabited realms, dimensions if you will. The void realm/dimension is dominated by evil forces. That's what we know with the current state of lore. Evil entities that wish to consume the material world. Who controls the void dimension? the Void Lords who are defined as evil, this hasn't changed and it's not ambiguous. And simply point, those who open the door to the void open the door for corruption. That's what has been shown and its been consistent. And Alleria is no different than the users before her who have delved into vast amount of void, she will subcome to it sooner or later unless there's some sort of intervention.
    Based on Chronicles, all the ones I mentioned are also Realms. And each of the realms affect the others in similar ways; Fel corrupting arcane, Life and Death manipulating one another, etc.

    The Void Lords *happen* to be the primary associated villains. Just as the Horde in Warcraft 1 and 2 were defined as evil as well, remember this. It was absolutely unambiguous that the Horde was evil aligned, and all the magic they use was evil and only be used for evil. We even know from the lore that the dark magic is what corrupted Medivh and drove him to madness.

    Warcraft 3 is when it started to shift the paradigm. They started to explain nuances to magic and show that Fel-touched beings CAN be servants of good. They showed how characters like Medivh CAN be redeemed even after corruption and death. This would have never existed any time prior to Warcraft 3 lore. This wouldn't have become ambiguous whatsoever.

    Where are we in the state of WoW lore? We're just starting to explore Void and the state of Void-touched beings. *Just starting*. The inambiguity you are pointing at is due to our limited knowledge of what Void actually is; just as our framework of what Dark Magic was in Warcraft was limited by its use within the Horde. We never knew it could be harnessed for good until we get characters and lore that explain it; and that's what we are possibly getting in Shadowlands and beyond.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-11-23 at 08:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Well, yes. Our opinions are below the canon lore of the game, because we're not the ones writing the lore.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    I've never seen the light make it's users mad and commit evil acts. Usually the user is a fault for any of the cases you can bring up. However you can't say that about the void.
    Watch what happened with Yrel in alternate Draenor. If that crusade wasn't the light's corrupting power, then I don't know what is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    N'Zoth certainly didn't see himself as evil. He genuinely thought he was the only hope Azeroth had (as he foresaw the Jailer making his move):
    One of the saving graces of BFA was adding a bit of lore towards N'zoth. Shame it was partially wasted the way it was. Still holding out hope that the Azeroth laser beam was part of his plan somehow.
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  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Where are we in the state of WoW lore? We're just starting to explore Void and the state of Void-touched beings. *Just starting*. The inambiguity you are pointing at is due to our limited knowledge of what Void actually is; just as our framework of what Dark Magic was in Warcraft was limited by its use within the Horde. We never knew it could be harnessed for good until we get characters and lore that explain it; and that's what we are possibly getting in Shadowlands and beyond.
    This is interesting to me, because appearntly for some people this seems like a thing that was there in 2005 and we were all just waiting for that expansion. I mean the Legion was for a very long time the end of all things. If Sargaras is dead wow is dead. Anyway I think you are right, even then it's hard to even see the framework of the void tho.. They never sold it to me, I said it before, but it's hard for me not to see it as just another threat to top the legion. There is substance, but not alot if we realy egt into it.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Based on Chronicles, all the ones I mentioned are also Realms. And each of the realms affect the others in similar ways; Fel corrupting arcane, Life and Death manipulating one another, etc.

    The Void Lords *happen* to be the primary associated villains. Just as the Horde in Warcraft 1 and 2 were defined as evil as well, remember this. It was absolutely unambiguous that the Horde was evil aligned, and all the magic they use was evil and only be used for evil. We even know from the lore that the dark magic is what corrupted Medivh and drove him to madness.

    Warcraft 3 is when it started to shift the paradigm. They started to explain nuances to magic and show that Fel-touched beings CAN be servants of good. They showed how characters like Medivh CAN be redeemed even after corruption and death. This would have never existed any time prior to Warcraft 3 lore. This wouldn't have become ambiguous whatsoever.

    Where are we in the state of WoW lore? We're just starting to explore Void and the state of Void-touched beings. *Just starting*. The inambiguity you are pointing at is due to our limited knowledge of what Void actually is; just as our framework of what Dark Magic was in Warcraft was limited by its use within the Horde. We never knew it could be harnessed for good until we get characters and lore that explain it; and that's what we are possibly getting in Shadowlands and beyond.
    I think we are now going on a tangent.

    Can we circle back to the topic? How does your current view fit with the thread? do you see her being corrupted or not?

  7. #67
    I definetely could see that happening, even if just for the sole poetry of it. Windrunner bloodline being cursed could be a neat ongoing plot. That said, I don't want either Windrunner sister to die until they reconcile. How they handled Alleria and Sylvanas' reunion was very insulting to both characters, disgustingly so. And what they continue to do with Alleria. Blizzard just can't write believable human (elf) beings.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    I think we are now going on a tangent.

    Can we circle back to the topic? How does your current view fit with the thread? do you see her being corrupted or not?
    The same level of asking whether you see Illidan as corrupted or in control of his powers. Neither is true, neither is false, both are absolutely up to subjective takes on what the lore provides.

    I personally see Illidan as in control of his powers, and his personality driving his need for power. I define his actions as his own, not due to the fel corruption that we know exists (as shown by the Horde). But what I personally see is not a *truth* because the lore is absolutely ambiguous on what the true effects of Fel entail, and whether or not Illidan is considered corrupted or just choosing to be batshit crazy.

    I don't see Alleria being corrupted whatsoever so far. Whether the story shows she will eventually succumb to the whispers/madness is up to the writers to tell, but it is not an 'inevitability' because of what she has chosen. We aren't privy to that information any more than we can say Illidan is fully corrupted by fel by becoming a Demon. I view him as being in total control of his faculties. I see the abuse of power being evil as the defining commonality between any fanatic; be it Illidan (Fel), Azshara (Arcane), Garrosh (Old God), Fandral (Druidism), Sylvanas(Anima?), Arthas (Necromancy) or Yrel (Holy Light). I don't see it being *inherent* to the magic itself, even if some avenues of power lend to 'corruption' more easily than others.

    And simply said, we have yet to see if Alleria becomes a(n evil) fanatic of the Void. The story can go both ways right now, we're just getting *hints* of things we will be exploring in the future. You are right in saying she is *vulnerable* to corruption; but it's a very different thing to say she is or will be corrupted.

    - on another tangent, I want to point out that you don't need to be a Void magic user to hear whispers. Our characters have done so many times through holding objects that let us hear whispers of the Old Gods, or simply being in a location of their presence like in Ulduar or Nyalotha. We even had events centered around the idea of corruption! Yet in all the times we have heard the whispers, we have also been able to resist them.

    If corruption were absolute, then Garrosh should have been absolutely corrupted in-and-out by the Heart of Y'shaarj. The fact we know that certain characters can embody the magic and still retain their senses, not be prone to its absolute corruption, means there is more to the 'magic' than we know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    This is interesting to me, because appearntly for some people this seems like a thing that was there in 2005 and we were all just waiting for that expansion. I mean the Legion was for a very long time the end of all things. If Sargaras is dead wow is dead. Anyway I think you are right, even then it's hard to even see the framework of the void tho.. They never sold it to me, I said it before, but it's hard for me not to see it as just another threat to top the legion. There is substance, but not alot if we realy egt into it.
    The only seed of Void not being completely evil for me so far is in the "Thousand Years of War" Turalyon and Alleria story they during Legion. That story tells of how Alleria goes through the whole Void process and hears the madness within the Void, but her own perspective eventually makes 'sense' out of what she sees as being an alternative truth to the reality around us. And Locus Walker pretty much hints this as well with what he reveals to Alleria and of the Void. It's only really Turalyon in the story who believes that Void will ultimately lead to corruption, which makes Alleria question herself too; but it's not something that is absolute in the lore, especially if we're being granted access to an entire race on the Alliance that is infused with Void.

    And yeah, I think the whole 'End of WoW' thing varies from people to people. For me, the lore I'm most fond of is Warcraft 2, and everything after is just icing on the cake but not true 'Warcraft' to me. I see it like Star Wars and how each 'Trilogy' carves its own identity out of the Star Wars franchise/universe. The current WoW canon is about as pleasing to me as the latest Star Wars Trilogy; barely enjoyable but I'll still keep up to date just for the sake of being up to date.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    We dont know enough about the light. The users are obviously a big source why things go bad..,, but what about Xe ra who is basically the light. Is she a light giver? She is under the light lords it seems as a Naaru.
    Didn't answer this before cuz it got lost in my list, I'll address this now.

    Xe'ra and the Naaru are still vessels of the Light, not Light itself. The fact that any Naaru can become Dark speaks to this. They shouldn't be able to go Dark Naaru if they are simply the Light; they can be corrupted because they aren't the Light itself, they are merely vessels.

    And if we look at mortals choosing to use X magic as a vessel of its power, we can define this more as a case of individuals reacting differently to different types of power. And in the most general sense, all types of magic have some sort of element of corruption to them; it used to be that Druidism and the Light were incorruptable by association; but then we have characters like Fandral, the Nightmare Druids or Yrel and the Scarlet Crusade and Zeliek that show us there are always exceptions to the rule. And it's can be argued that these are 'mortals using magic not magic using mortals' but honestly there is no such thing as 'magic using mortals' since even the Naaru are acting under their own accord; simply following what *we assume* is the prime directive of the Light. How formal their organization is and what lengths they would go to in doing acts of good over evil is still very ambiguous to us, and we're only now seeing that directive play out in an 'evil' form through Yrel and Xe'ras own actions.

    In my own interpretation of the systems of magic; Magic does not define good or evil whatsoever. All the light cares about is balancing itself with Void. Maintaining good values is something the vessels of its power choose to uphold. It's not an all-encompassing thing, since it's just as easy that certain vessels can misuse the power of the light. Lore once stated that Paladins who don't do good end up losing powers of the light, but now we know it's not fully true and that using the light is more a matter of personal faith in its power than it is in upholding moral values. Tirion lost its power, not because he was no longer good but because he lost faith. Zeliek on the other hand kept using it because he never lost his faith in the light.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-11-23 at 09:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Well, yes. Our opinions are below the canon lore of the game, because we're not the ones writing the lore.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    How could she give them such protection, when she never had it herself though. Much like demon hunters void use is explicitly tied to an never ending battle of wills.
    Some sort of event. Not literally within herself now. Like she finds some way or some battle that she wins but dies resulting in it.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    And what do you base that assumption on? Why would she be categorized as "evil" just because she succumbed to the whispers? Blizzard has been showing since Legion that the Warcraft universe is not as black and white as you might think. N'Zoth expressed many times in BfA that he wished to save the world from the Jailer, so maybe the Void Lords (or one of them) also have genuine motivations.

    The truth is, every cosmic force has motivations that conflict with mortal interests. The Light showed that, the Arcane showed that (Malygos, Algalon...), the Fel showed that, the Life showed that (Everbloom), Death is showing that literally in the upcoming expansion. Don't presume that the Void Lords are evil just because they are shadowy.

    Regardless that won't happen until at least the second half of the decade. Alleria Windrunner is one of the oldest characters IN THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE (as she first appeared in WC2), as well as one of the most iconic Alliance characters ever (every single player in WoW has seen her statue at least once), and has been built up for many years. She isn't going anywhere, and even if Blizzard is still NOT tired of the sexist "woman goes crazy because whispers going brr" plot, she will receive a lot of spotlight.

    The same goes for Turalyon. Perhaps you don't remember that they updated the loading screen tips THRICE to hype up the couple's return. Alleria and Turalyon aren't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.
    LOL. blizzard is trying so hard to be "woke" nowdays, its almost insufferable. and thats coming from a heavy leftist
    also, oldschool characters dont mean shit for blizz. ner'zhul was also from WC2, and yet he got snuffed OFF-SCREEN
    alleria isnt protected bc shes an old character.
    but i know its pointless to argue about her with you, so continue
    Last edited by Houle; 2020-11-24 at 02:37 AM.
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  11. #71
    It would serve as emotional fuel for Turalyon and the other Windrunners - but frankly, if they need the fuel right now that seems to indicate to me either just as an excuse to stoke flames or war or to motivate characters that otherwise wouldn't have motivations. It's probably better to actually build up those characters with some other traits and personality and goals and motivations beyond their immediate connections so that the death of a character who otherwise doesn't have a lot going on could have some time to mean something more. I guess in summary it just seems like a waste. I probably wouldn't mind, it just kind of seems like the boring answer.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    Not every void elf has taken the amount of void that Alleria has.
    Some go crazy like this guy https://youtu.be/qd7yd5Z8Uos?t=51

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    That would mean every Void Elf would have to eventually be evil....doubt that will happen
    Is every undead evil? No? Then yours is a false argument.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  14. #74
    Another Windrunner goes crazy? I hope not. Even tho Shadows Rising paints her in a pretty negative light, I still think it's a red herring. All Sons of Lothar characters have flaws, but they are still heroes. At the same time, Nu-Alleria is Danuser's creation, so maybe she really is just a replacement for Sylvanas. Who knows.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Another Windrunner goes crazy? I hope not. Even tho Shadows Rising paints her in a pretty negative light, I still think it's a red herring. All Sons of Lothar characters have flaws, but they are still heroes. At the same time, Nu-Alleria is Danuser's creation, so maybe she really is just a replacement for Sylvanas. Who knows.
    Danuser wrote Alleria's return in Legion and her story going forward?

    Perhaps I misjudged him.

    Also, this Danuser really is a fan of Windrunner girls, huh?

  16. #76
    Il'gynoth says: "At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming."

    Alleria Windrunner says: "Indeed. Sometimes I feel that I have already died twice. Once when we were presumed lost on Draenor, and again when gripped by the shadow of the fallen naaru."

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Danuser wrote Alleria's return in Legion and her story going forward?

    Perhaps I misjudged him.

    Also, this Danuser really is a fan of Windrunner girls, huh?
    Dies anyone care if he is? Alleria is probably the most tiresome, unevolved character in the game, aside from maybe Griftah

    She'll definitely turn, if not already has

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Ast1982 View Post
    Dies anyone care if he is? Alleria is probably the most tiresome, unevolved character in the game, aside from maybe Griftah

    She'll definitely turn, if not already has
    Completely disagree. An inferior and dumber writer would have kept Alleria a normal elf and turned her into a submissive Lor'themar's fanboy. Instead Danuser did not cave into the complaints of the Horde (primarily Blood elf) players, and gave Alleria a unique, refreshing, and new story arc that cements her relevance in the overall storyline without hurting her independence and autonomy in any way.

    As the next expansion will obviously be about the Light and Void, you can be certain that Alleria Windrunner, first mortal to successfully defy the shadows' whispers, will play a MAJOR role. Something which she could not have done if an unoriginal writer never came up with the entire Mac'aree questline.

    The problem is that a lot of people on the internet are just armchair writers who don't know anything about actually good writing. So they would've probably turned Alleria into a blood elf, sent her to Silvermoon to act as Lor'themar's secretary, and then forgotten about her. Danuser is smarter, and he is a PROFESSIONAL writer, so he instead gave Alleria a unique role and place in the storyline, and now she is posed to become a major player in the cosmic battle between Light and Void.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-11-24 at 10:09 AM.

  19. #79
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    methinks Alleria will be the "suspicious person handles an evil substance but is actually good and is truly good" trope
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  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    methinks Alleria will be the "suspicious person handles an evil substance but is actually good and is truly good" trope
    This seems very likely. Since she is constantly hearing whispers from the Void Lords, she could outplay them and look into their mind and plans. It would be in the best interests of all those who oppose the Void Lords that Alleria live, because she could very well represent the salvation of the cosmos.

    It is similar in concept to Saruman from LOTR. Even though he committed terrible things, since he looked into the mind of Sauron through the palantir, the protagonists did not want to kill him. Some people hold too much key knowledge to die.

    I could see a scenario where, even if Alleria Windrunner went "mad" and destroyed everything, the forces of Azeroth would still keep her alive because of the key knowledge she holds about the Void Lords and how to counter them.

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