Afrasiabi left Blizzard?

[Fabinas]

eople need to stop this nonsense. The devs do have passion. You not liking the game does not = devs have no passion.

You must either be one of 'em or closely related to one. Can't really fathom your degree of Blizzard's brown-nosing defense.

[rhorle]

You must either be one of 'em or closely related to one. Can't really fathom your degree of Blizzard's brown-nosing defense.

It isn't brown nosing. It is just common sense. Just because a person dislikes the current state of the game doesn't mean that everyone who works at Blizzard has no passion for their job. It is a stupid blanket insult people use as a scapegoat rather then of any actual critique.

[Fabinas]

If deves didn't have passion, they would quit. People need to stop conflating " I don't llike this game" into "Devs don't have passion". Devs ALWAYS have passion.

What kind of shit logic is this?

People stay in well paid jobs even if they hate them for reasons. Debts, addictions, luxurious lifestyle, prestige is some of them.

You can be a dev who lost passion and still work. Doesn't mean automatic resignation.

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It isn't brown nosing. It is just common sense. Just because a person dislikes the current state of the game doesn't mean that everyone who works at Blizzard has no passion for their job. It is a stupid blanket insult people use as a scapegoat rather then of any actual critique.

His argument has no logical connection.

I can easily attribute my disliking of something to the lack of passion of its maker. You know, especially when comparing that something to their previous work.

And the brown-nosing goes to his previous post history. Just like yours.

[rhorle]

I can easily attribute my disliking of something to the lack of passion of its maker. You know, especially when comparing that something to their previous work.

Your statement is the one with no logical connection. You can't tell the feelings of another just because of the feelings you have. You are not psychic. You are not a mind reader. You literally can not tell the level of passion a developer has. You can guess or imply but that isn't doesn't actually make it so. It is just a silly insult used to hate on the game, developer, or whatever.

A passionate developer can still create bad things. Lol.

[Mosotti]

There was so much passion for games in the male devs that it has spilled towards the female devs.

[Aeula]

Damn, I'd honestly forgotten I'd make this thread. Guess we all know a little more about why this was the case, eh? Wonder who else got scrubbed.

[Berndorf]

It isn't brown nosing. It is just common sense. Just because a person dislikes the current state of the game doesn't mean that everyone who works at Blizzard has no passion for their job. It is a stupid blanket insult people use as a scapegoat rather then of any actual critique.

Except that the comment I made said no such thing if people would have actually read it. What was said is that management which focuses too much on profit and doesn't allow devs creative freedom can lessen the passion people have for their jobs. Nowhere was a blanket statement made about all Bliz devs having no passion for their job. I'd imagine being a female employee at Bliz given the environment that is being spelled out in the lawsuit would damper enthusiasm and passion for the job as well to some degree.

[Fabinas]

Your statement is the one with no logical connection. You can't tell the feelings of another just because of the feelings you have. You are not psychic. You are not a mind reader. You literally can not tell the level of passion a developer has. You can guess or imply but that isn't doesn't actually make it so. It is just a silly insult used to hate on the game, developer, or whatever.

A passionate developer can still create bad things. Lol.

Not going into strawman arguments with you. You're well known for dishonest and full of fallacies discussions.

[jazen]

Grab assery used to be accepted workplace behavior. It hasn't been accepted behavior for over 2 decades.

[rhorle]

Not going into strawman arguments with you. You're well known for dishonest and full of fallacies discussions.

Right. Because you are just interested in hate and insults.

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Except that the comment I made said no such thing if people would have actually read it. What was said is that management which focuses too much on profit and doesn't allow devs creative freedom can lessen the passion people have for their jobs.

That sounds like a blanket statement about devs having no passion based on some arbitrary value. How do you know how much management has meddled? The below is the first comment about passion that spawned this tangent. You tried to defend that statement when you took issue with another poster calling it out.

You can be a scumbag and have passion. You can have passion and create a terrible product. You can have a focus on finance and profit and still have passion. The only reason why passion is ever brought up is as a why to justify or explain dislike for something now versus what a person liked previously.

It is often used to put the responsibility on the person creating the content rather then on oneself for no longer liking the content.

I really hope the latter is true, they get fired and we get devs with passion for the game instead.

[muto]

Ive became friends with a few ppl who worked as gms in blizzard for years and after they left or were laid off they can't stand to play blizzard product's anymore. They often talked of bad treatment and felt like they couldnt do anything but take the abuse or leave. I can only imagine how sour it is for the old guard that left and had to watch their former home crumble and burn.

Well this comment partially aged well. Only difference in this case is it was the abuser that finally got pushed out it seems.

[Al Gorefiend]

We knew their brain wasn't the main decision-making organ when it came to game design. They claimed it was their heart doing all the thinking but looks like that's the wrong organ too.

[Berndorf]

Right. Because you are just interested in hate and insults.

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That sounds like a blanket statement about devs having no passion based on some arbitrary value. How do you know how much management has meddled? The below is the first comment about passion that spawned this tangent. You tried to defend that statement when you took issue with another poster calling it out.

You can be a scumbag and have passion. You can have passion and create a terrible product. You can have a focus on finance and profit and still have passion. The only reason why passion is ever brought up is as a why to justify or explain dislike for something now versus what a person liked previously.

It is often used to put the responsibility on the person creating the content rather then on oneself for no longer liking the content.

What is sounds like to you and what it is can be two completely different things. Passion isn't the end all be all of anything but the degree to which your input is valued can be a factor in how much you have for your job. When it comes to creative endeavors such as games, there's a difference in creating what you think is the best game possible with your skill set and building around mandates which put profit first. This has been addressed by a couple of the people who have left Blizzard. You jumping in and saying how I made a blanket comment that Bliz devs have no passion is not at all what I said. What I said is that as companies grow and profit becomes more intertwined with the creative process it has an affect on it. This isn't just to do with Blizzard either. It has to do with how companies change as they grow. You can now continue with your inability to understand what I am saying without me putting in the effort to read or respond to it because I'm not spending any more of my time in dialogue with you on this topic.

[rhorle]

What I said is that as companies grow and profit becomes more intertwined with the creative process it has an affect on it. This isn't just to do with Blizzard either. It has to do with how companies change as they grow.

Let me guess that effect happened to coincide with Vivendi Games acquiring Activision right? Your comment still has nothing to do with the original where it wants all the devs fired to be replaced with ones with passion. You are arguing something you first brought up while calling another person wrong when they addressed the actual context.

[Al Gorefiend]

What is sounds like to you and what it is can be two completely different things. Passion isn't the end all be all of anything but the degree to which your input is valued can be a factor in how much you have for your job. When it comes to creative endeavors such as games, there's a difference in creating what you think is the best game possible with your skill set and building around mandates which put profit first. This has been addressed by a couple of the people who have left Blizzard. You jumping in and saying how I made a blanket comment that Bliz devs have no passion is not at all what I said. What I said is that as companies grow and profit becomes more intertwined with the creative process it has an affect on it. This isn't just to do with Blizzard either. It has to do with how companies change as they grow. You can now continue with your inability to understand what I am saying without me putting in the effort to read or respond to it because I'm not spending any more of my time in dialogue with you on this topic.

I understand exactly what you're saying because it's been proven time, time and time again. The creative process gets muddied and storytelling becomes pandering to increase sales especially the creatives tied to the expectations of a parent conglomerate interested in the sales. Popular characters become immune to death, a tale as old as capitalism.

Like are we all still not remembering the moment GoT deviated from the established material and started rushing George to finish up his story for the show's finale?

[rhorle]

The creative process gets muddied and storytelling becomes pandering to increase sales especially the creatives tied to the expectations of a parent conglomerate interested in the sales. Popular characters become immune to death, a tale as old as capitalism.

Blizzard has had a parent conglomerate for 28 of its 30 years. So wouldn't the passion have long been gone from Blizzard?

That is why passion, conglomerates, and whatever else that is similar are usually used as scapegoats to shift them blame from one thing to another. Sometimes it is about personal agency and not wanting to acknowledge your tastes have changed over the years. Sometimes it is about holding a thing up on a pedestal so it has to be the fault of something else. And yes, sometimes it can mean the creators have lost their passion, spark, or interest in what they are doing.

[Ripster42]

Unless it's a fine massive enough to send shockwaves through this industry and any other for that matter pretty much fuck all will change other than the named ones being let go, hopefully it's a massive fine.

Dunno if I missed something or not, but it looks like the max fine is 25k (not including restitution). I don't know how many times that fine would be applied in this case. Once for each defendant per allegation? Once total? I didn't see much about DFEH's enforcement authority aside from fines and forcing training on people (again, aside from restitution). IANAL and I'm not from cali, so I don't know what their strictures are like. Their website seems to say their mission only covers enforcement of specific laws that don't seem to carry fines capable of inhibiting the behavior of large corporations. The restitution they'll have to pay is really just a loan they got at a decent rate.

Edit: I should add, the case the state brought does not shield Acti-Bliz from lawsuits from the victims in their personal capacity. It's possible the punitive damages add up to 8 figures summing those private suits if they're brought following the probable success of this case.

[shoc]

Blizzard has had a parent conglomerate for 28 of its 30 years. So wouldn't the passion have long been gone from Blizzard?

That is why passion, conglomerates, and whatever else that is similar are usually used as scapegoats to shift them blame from one thing to another. Sometimes it is about personal agency and not wanting to acknowledge your tastes have changed over the years. Sometimes it is about holding a thing up on a pedestal so it has to be the fault of something else. And yes, sometimes it can mean the creators have lost their passion, spark, or interest in what they are doing.

There is no such thing as passion in games development, you would realize this within the first 30 minutes of working in Unity or Unreal.

[Edge-]

There is no such thing as passion in games development, you would realize this within the first 30 minutes of working in Unity or Unreal.

That's actually pretty much the main reason why many people work in game dev, despite the chronically low pay, awful hours, and multitude of other problems that wouldn't be as bad elsewhere.

I will never understand why people are so deeply suspicious and mistrusting of the people who make games that they claim to enjoy.

[Tiwack]

I will never understand why people are so deeply suspicious and mistrusting of the people who make games that they claim to enjoy.

Because it's easy to question their work as a user and be highly critical of it. They gotta make a living but you often get the sense they're not trying to make things as entertaining as they could as much as they're trying to capture users in some sunk-cost-fallacy to keep paying/playing like gamblers in a casino.