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  1. #41
    Play what you want, and do M+/raids with guildies, not pugs. I'm good enough that 5% isn't a big deal at all, as I can outdo a lot of the other combos despite what simcraft says, and I've been with them since Vanilla. I actually pre-date the current GM.

    Having said that, they're not pushing bleeding edge mythic or M+. They'll get there before the next patch, but they're not pushing that hard.

    If you're in a min/max guild, be prepared to do what you're told, and do it the way you're told, or not get to play. You *do* have a choice. Leave that guild...or deal with the consequences of where you are. Or try to pug raids and M+, and let Raider.io rule your life, of course. I won't do any of that. YMMV.

  2. #42
    Hey, look, it's this thread again.

  3. #43
    My player, if you don't like that swirly boring af kyrian DoT go get those Necrolord slappy hands with the sick plate armor and ride your bony monster mount off into the sunset.

    I predict covenant choice will hardly ever be scrutinized. The tunning knobs will swing wildly as months go by, and you can always have the "I'm optimized for mythic plus" excuse. I find the kyrian dot boring as well, and already ran instances where I can see slappy hands come in handy so so much!

    Pick fun and dont hate the buttons on your bar. You don't fret over the fact you could earn 2005 USD a month while making just 2000 do you?

  4. #44
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    how dishonest can you be....yeah 0.01% is a joke exageration,but its actualy more like 50% if you chose what you like vs whats best,and we know players go to extremes for even actual 1% increases
    No, it isn't "actually more like 50%". That's just cheap hyperbole bullshit.

    It's a lot more like 1% for most classes/specs. If you've got multiple ones where the difference between best Covenant and worst is "50%", post 'em, and they better be up to date, not some nonsense from three months ago in beta.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I’m pretty sure that when he says 50%, he means that the dps increase is 50% higher. So if covenant x gives you a 10% increase, y gives a 15% increase, which is 50% more than 10%. It’s a deceptive way to describe it.
    Yeah if that's what he means, he's basically straight-up lying by using the language he is, because he's comparing a percentage about overall DPS to one about relative DPS. The difference between a 1% and a 1.5% DPS increase is "50%", but I'm a fucking liar if I go around mouthing off that the second covenant/soulbind is "50% better" without making it incredibly clear that I'm talking only relatively. Especially as many people have been claiming 20-30% DPS differences in the beta (some of which were even, long ago, true).
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    how dishonest can you be....yeah 0.01% is a joke exageration,but its actualy more like 50% if you chose what you like vs whats best,and we know players go to extremes for even actual 1% increases
    How dishonest can you be tho? 50%

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    50% is a joke exaggeration.
    no, literally if you pick every single worst overall choice you can

    it literally is 50%


    If you choose the wrong covenant but all the right binds its around .5-5%

  7. #47
    They'll likely be forced to do a few passes on this before long, so it's a better call to just go with what you like right now.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Respect all, submit to none.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionhearte0 View Post
    Your choice was either 1) to min/max your dps or 2) go with a covenant you like

    You choose to min/max. Sorry, sucks to be you, but maybe you shouldn't let a 0.01% dps gain settle decisions for you.
    Yeah... 0.01% in your dreams.

  9. #49
    Choosing a covenant based on pure % output is the dumbest thing you can do, because Blizz will constantly rebalance these values.

    You should either pick a covenant based on their theme OR based on what the spells actually do, like what utility and what type of dmg do they do and not just pure % values.

    If a covenant just gives you a flat and high dps increase over the others, then it will 100% be nerfed or the others will be buffed. The 0.1% players aren't choosing the covenants on these stats either, because they know this very well too. They pick what covenant gives them the best toolkit.

  10. #50
    This is going to be a loooong xpac….

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Significant amount of power? So, what do your sims say about that?
    my sims say that playing better is a bigger dps gain than the difference between covenants. but hey, who cares about not being trash these days

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Deianeira View Post
    OR you just join a guild that are more laidback and let people play what they think is fun. As long as guilds not in competetion for WFs or top 100 kills it wont matter anyways
    Good luck in finding a guild that let you in an M+ whatever the key level, whatever the time you login and whatever the class/spec you play after 10 minutes from login.

    After all these years people still don’t understand that many of us have FEW spare time and also 10-15 minutes less or more in wait make often the difference between being able to run an M+ and waste the game session.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    between worst and best covenats/conduits/soulbinds,if you pick something you enjoy vs the best it is around 50%
    Its not even close to 50%. With everythinh picked it was simmimg at a 4-6% difference from top to bottom. Anyone who says 50% does not know what they are talking about.

  14. #54
    That Kyrian spear feels like It belongs in a prot warriors toolkit. Its so damn good and it drives me crazy because I refuse to go Kyrain.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Good luck in finding a guild that let you in an M+ whatever the key level, whatever the time you login and whatever the class/spec you play after 10 minutes from login.

    After all these years people still don’t understand that many of us have FEW spare time and also 10-15 minutes less or more in wait make often the difference between being able to run an M+ and waste the game session.
    I'm glad someone brought this up, because it really is pretty important.

    The old addage of "Well just play with friends" sounds good on paper, but there's going to be a LOT of times when you just want to log on and play when your friends aren't on, are already doing something, or otherwise are unavailable. Which means you'll have to turn to the general public.

    Blizzard REALLY should have pulled the ripcord. As many people have said, Covenant abilities are basically talents, both passive and active. They should behave like talents and be swappable with VERY little annoyance. All the cosmetic stuff like mounts and xmog can be a more permanent decision. But player abilities? These should be interchangeable EXACTLY like the talents or spec that they represent.

  16. #56
    Scarab Lord
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    If you're on the minmax-train expect a rollercoaster of emotion and gameplay with little control on your part besides dealing with what you're served.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    0.01% is a joke exaggeration but your 50% isn't? Frost and Unholy's covenant choices are a 5% difference between best and worst.
    5% is huge, like a piece of gear.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionhearte0 View Post
    Your choice was either 1) to min/max your dps or 2) go with a covenant you like

    You choose to min/max. Sorry, sucks to be you, but maybe you shouldn't let a 0.01% dps gain settle decisions for you.
    I couldn't heave have put it better myself. I've tried. Well said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Akhlys View Post
    Once upon a time, boats were full of leaks. Now, our leaks are full of boats.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionhearte0 View Post
    Your choice was either 1) to min/max your dps or 2) go with a covenant you like
    Or maybe Blizzard shouldn't put players in a position where they unnecessarily have to choose between the two.

    This was absolutely an avoidable situation. But Blizzard, for whatever reason, decided to create a completely artificial "meaningful" choice by locking things to covenants that didn't need to be. I mean, how do you think people would react if all talent or spec changes were set to a 2 week lockout? Would that make sense?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I mean, how do you think people would react if all talent or spec changes were set to a 2 week lockout? Would that make sense?
    Id love to see that.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
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    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

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