I already don't like Covenants.

[agm114r]

Play what you want, and do M+/raids with guildies, not pugs. I'm good enough that 5% isn't a big deal at all, as I can outdo a lot of the other combos despite what simcraft says, and I've been with them since Vanilla. I actually pre-date the current GM.

Having said that, they're not pushing bleeding edge mythic or M+. They'll get there before the next patch, but they're not pushing that hard.

If you're in a min/max guild, be prepared to do what you're told, and do it the way you're told, or not get to play. You *do* have a choice. Leave that guild...or deal with the consequences of where you are. Or try to pug raids and M+, and let Raider.io rule your life, of course. I won't do any of that. YMMV.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Hey, look, it's this thread again.

[7empest]

My player, if you don't like that swirly boring af kyrian DoT go get those Necrolord slappy hands with the sick plate armor and ride your bony monster mount off into the sunset.

I predict covenant choice will hardly ever be scrutinized. The tunning knobs will swing wildly as months go by, and you can always have the "I'm optimized for mythic plus" excuse. I find the kyrian dot boring as well, and already ran instances where I can see slappy hands come in handy so so much!

Pick fun and dont hate the buttons on your bar. You don't fret over the fact you could earn 2005 USD a month while making just 2000 do you?

[Eurhetemec]

how dishonest can you be....yeah 0.01% is a joke exageration,but its actualy more like 50% if you chose what you like vs whats best,and we know players go to extremes for even actual 1% increases

No, it isn't "actually more like 50%". That's just cheap hyperbole bullshit.

It's a lot more like 1% for most classes/specs. If you've got multiple ones where the difference between best Covenant and worst is "50%", post 'em, and they better be up to date, not some nonsense from three months ago in beta.

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I’m pretty sure that when he says 50%, he means that the dps increase is 50% higher. So if covenant x gives you a 10% increase, y gives a 15% increase, which is 50% more than 10%. It’s a deceptive way to describe it.

Yeah if that's what he means, he's basically straight-up lying by using the language he is, because he's comparing a percentage about overall DPS to one about relative DPS. The difference between a 1% and a 1.5% DPS increase is "50%", but I'm a fucking liar if I go around mouthing off that the second covenant/soulbind is "50% better" without making it incredibly clear that I'm talking only relatively. Especially as many people have been claiming 20-30% DPS differences in the beta (some of which were even, long ago, true).

[erifwodahs]

how dishonest can you be....yeah 0.01% is a joke exageration,but its actualy more like 50% if you chose what you like vs whats best,and we know players go to extremes for even actual 1% increases

How dishonest can you be tho? 50%

[Nasuuna]

50% is a joke exaggeration.

no, literally if you pick every single worst overall choice you can

it literally is 50%


If you choose the wrong covenant but all the right binds its around .5-5%

[loras]

They'll likely be forced to do a few passes on this before long, so it's a better call to just go with what you like right now.

[Swnem]

Your choice was either 1) to min/max your dps or 2) go with a covenant you like

You choose to min/max. Sorry, sucks to be you, but maybe you shouldn't let a 0.01% dps gain settle decisions for you.

Yeah... 0.01% in your dreams.

[RobertMugabe]

Choosing a covenant based on pure % output is the dumbest thing you can do, because Blizz will constantly rebalance these values.

You should either pick a covenant based on their theme OR based on what the spells actually do, like what utility and what type of dmg do they do and not just pure % values.

If a covenant just gives you a flat and high dps increase over the others, then it will 100% be nerfed or the others will be buffed. The 0.1% players aren't choosing the covenants on these stats either, because they know this very well too. They pick what covenant gives them the best toolkit.

[slime]

This is going to be a loooong xpac….

[dcc626]

Significant amount of power? So, what do your sims say about that?

my sims say that playing better is a bigger dps gain than the difference between covenants. but hey, who cares about not being trash these days

[chiddie]

OR you just join a guild that are more laidback and let people play what they think is fun. As long as guilds not in competetion for WFs or top 100 kills it wont matter anyways

Good luck in finding a guild that let you in an M+ whatever the key level, whatever the time you login and whatever the class/spec you play after 10 minutes from login.

After all these years people still don’t understand that many of us have FEW spare time and also 10-15 minutes less or more in wait make often the difference between being able to run an M+ and waste the game session.

[Utrrabbit]

between worst and best covenats/conduits/soulbinds,if you pick something you enjoy vs the best it is around 50%

Its not even close to 50%. With everythinh picked it was simmimg at a 4-6% difference from top to bottom. Anyone who says 50% does not know what they are talking about.

[Tony Slam]

That Kyrian spear feels like It belongs in a prot warriors toolkit. Its so damn good and it drives me crazy because I refuse to go Kyrain.

[SirCowdog]

Good luck in finding a guild that let you in an M+ whatever the key level, whatever the time you login and whatever the class/spec you play after 10 minutes from login.

After all these years people still don’t understand that many of us have FEW spare time and also 10-15 minutes less or more in wait make often the difference between being able to run an M+ and waste the game session.

I'm glad someone brought this up, because it really is pretty important.

The old addage of "Well just play with friends" sounds good on paper, but there's going to be a LOT of times when you just want to log on and play when your friends aren't on, are already doing something, or otherwise are unavailable. Which means you'll have to turn to the general public.

Blizzard REALLY should have pulled the ripcord. As many people have said, Covenant abilities are basically talents, both passive and active. They should behave like talents and be swappable with VERY little annoyance. All the cosmetic stuff like mounts and xmog can be a more permanent decision. But player abilities? These should be interchangeable EXACTLY like the talents or spec that they represent.

[Tiwack]

If you're on the minmax-train expect a rollercoaster of emotion and gameplay with little control on your part besides dealing with what you're served.

[Zenfoldor]

0.01% is a joke exaggeration but your 50% isn't? Frost and Unholy's covenant choices are a 5% difference between best and worst.

5% is huge, like a piece of gear.

[Kyux]

Your choice was either 1) to min/max your dps or 2) go with a covenant you like

You choose to min/max. Sorry, sucks to be you, but maybe you shouldn't let a 0.01% dps gain settle decisions for you.

I couldn't heave have put it better myself. I've tried. Well said.

[SirCowdog]

Your choice was either 1) to min/max your dps or 2) go with a covenant you like

Or maybe Blizzard shouldn't put players in a position where they unnecessarily have to choose between the two.

This was absolutely an avoidable situation. But Blizzard, for whatever reason, decided to create a completely artificial "meaningful" choice by locking things to covenants that didn't need to be. I mean, how do you think people would react if all talent or spec changes were set to a 2 week lockout? Would that make sense?

[ymirsson]

I mean, how do you think people would react if all talent or spec changes were set to a 2 week lockout? Would that make sense?

Id love to see that.