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  1. #21
    What if this is a whole 3rd wall breaking plot, the 'we never had free will' being blizzard's and us the players controlling their lives.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut View Post

    Unless of course Sylvanas isn't actually talking about the injustice of life and death in a Watsonian sense, but rather she is like Rick Sanchez, a self aware fictional character, and she is meta railing at the writers for not letting her be the character she wants to be - a fair assessment considering her development has always been driven by plot and gameplay requirements rather than character:
    Are we about to witness an Animal Man-tier fourth wall-breaking, genre defying, game changing, expectations subverting moment? 10/10 Game of the Millenium. Do it, Blizz.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post

    Redemption arc goes brrrr ^^
    Indeed ^^

    There's this saying about dogs and a caravan.... teehee

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrathius View Post
    We know that's not the case though, or at least, it shouldn't be.

    Arthas wasn't even meant to go into the Maw, and only ended up there because Uther took matters into his own hands. Next to him, the idea that your average Forsaken would merit eternal damnation is utterly ludicrous.
    There is a convenient scapegoat for this though:

    Arthas wasn't undead. He never died, and didn't need to be raised. It's very possible what "marks someone for the Maw" as a soul is the Jailer's own magic, which Arthas' soul was never touched by - Only wielded by.

    Which, depending how they explain the corrupt Val'kyr, would explain why only Forsaken are cursed to such a fate, and not any random person raised by a necromancer. Because Forsaken have all been raised by Sylvanas' Val'kyr or Arthas - Which would mean their raising was due to the Jailer's abilities.

    (And then we'd have "Well why wasn't Uther's soul sent to the Maw?" but we know part of it was. Uther is a unique case where his soul was split in two. The other half, the one that was within Frostmourne, is now within the Maw. Maybe his plea to the Light is what did this, split part of his soul from the Jailer's magic, so he could in fact reach the afterlife as he asked.)
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2020-11-24 at 10:04 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  4. #24
    All she needs now is 3 dragons and we'd have a perfect character in our hands.
    Let's just hope that Sylvanas doesn't just kinda forget about the Kul'Tiran fleet, maybe she'll have a chance then!

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Demontjuh View Post
    What if this is a whole 3rd wall breaking plot, the 'we never had free will' being blizzard's and us the players controlling their lives.
    This kinda narrative is really lame, the only game I liked it in was Max Payne.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    There is a convenient scapegoat for this though:

    Arthas wasn't undead. He never died, and didn't need to be raised.
    He did literally cut his own heart out, though. We had a quest where we recovered it in Icecrown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    So, it's Shadowlands are Free moment. Nice one

    Imagine trying to justifice torment and pain she caused, especially with Teldrassil, where plenty of Night Elves lost their family and friends, some of them were burned alive...
    I mean, if it's a case of "Kill a few tens of thousands to help free literal infinite lives throughout the universe"...at that scale, the trade could be worth it. Assuming that the Jailer is telling the truth, of course.

    I want to know what the supposed end-game is. Say she/the Jailer win. They will make it so "Everyone is free." Okay, great. But...what does that mean? What will replace the Shadowlands? What will replace Death?

  7. #27
    Think I miss "aliens invade must kill aliens" over this nonsense.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    He did literally cut his own heart out, though. We had a quest where we recovered it in Icecrown.



    I mean, if it's a case of "Kill a few tens of thousands to help free literal infinite lives throughout the universe"...at that scale, the trade could be worth it. Assuming that the Jailer is telling the truth, of course.

    I want to know what the supposed end-game is. Say she/the Jailer win. They will make it so "Everyone is free." Okay, great. But...what does that mean? What will replace the Shadowlands? What will replace Death?
    perhaps some form of ascention . to being a "higher being" and take part in whole cosmic batles thingy .

    but all this while keeping your memories.

    this would open up path to some crazy possible new classes in game

  9. #29
    Maybe the Jailer used to be like a more neutral afterworld figure, before the Purpose. He didn't direct souls or tell them where to go in the Shadowlands, he let them find their own place. Then one day the purpose came, ripped his heart out, used it to power the Arbiter and left him an angry, vicious imprisoned husk. All the working afterlives is a product of the Arbiter, and a corruption of what the Shadowlands was meant to be... so yeah, I think Sylvannas will be justified in the end for the choices she made. Maybe she'll have to blow herself up into complete non-existence to seal the deal, so everyone can mourn her for making the double plus ultimate sacrifice.

    I kind of like the idea of us raiding the writers/ Blizzard game studio.. the characters rising up to destroy their creators. That seems like a very Blizzard gag way of ending things... but since I doubt that WoW is ending, that won't happen.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Akutare View Post
    I kind of like the idea of us raiding the writers/ Blizzard game studio.. the characters rising up to destroy their creators. That seems like a very Blizzard gag way of ending things... but since I doubt that WoW is ending, that won't happen.
    Gag is the right word for this storyline.

  11. #31
    Warchief Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    Rastakhan's deal with Bwonsamdi at least made some sort of sense, right?

    I see dead people.... Yes, kinda my ting, ya know

  12. #32
    Bloodsail Admiral Depakote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    There is a convenient scapegoat for this though:

    Arthas wasn't undead. He never died, and didn't need to be raised. It's very possible what "marks someone for the Maw" as a soul is the Jailer's own magic, which Arthas' soul was never touched by - Only wielded by.

    Which, depending how they explain the corrupt Val'kyr, would explain why only Forsaken are cursed to such a fate, and not any random person raised by a necromancer. Because Forsaken have all been raised by Sylvanas' Val'kyr or Arthas - Which would mean their raising was due to the Jailer's abilities.

    (And then we'd have "Well why wasn't Uther's soul sent to the Maw?" but we know part of it was. Uther is a unique case where his soul was split in two. The other half, the one that was within Frostmourne, is now within the Maw. Maybe his plea to the Light is what did this, split part of his soul from the Jailer's magic, so he could in fact reach the afterlife as he asked.)
    Let's just forget about that quest in Icecrown where you go to retrieve his heart that he had cut out.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrathius View Post
    We know that's not the case though, or at least, it shouldn't be.

    Arthas wasn't even meant to go into the Maw, and only ended up there because Uther took matters into his own hands. Next to him, the idea that your average Forsaken would merit eternal damnation is utterly ludicrous.
    Are we sure it doesn't work differently for raised forsaken ? Maybe when they die (as mortal), their soul follows the proper process, and when raised, a "new" soul is forged, and this soul is just blatantly... ignored by the Arbiter as it doesn't exist really ?

    I'm not so sure how resurrection work with Shadowlands. Does the soul reaches all its way to the arbiter but does a 180 spin "lol nope" to go back to the resurrected body ?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    I mean, if it's a case of "Kill a few tens of thousands to help free literal infinite lives throughout the universe"...at that scale, the trade could be worth it. Assuming that the Jailer is telling the truth, of course.
    Not like she could talk with them first. Not trying to bring their morales down, not trying to show them the truth, not trying to even ease their pain somehow.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Not like she could talk with them first. Not trying to bring their morales down, not trying to show them the truth, not trying to even ease their pain somehow.
    1. Talk to them? "Hi, so, this powerful entity in the afterlife needs to feast on enough souls to shatter it's prison to destroy the ordered afterlife and is that a straightjacke-"
    2. It's morals. Morales is Spiderman/the medic hero in HotS.
    3. Show them the truth? Refer to #1
    4. Do you have an easy way to kill a few hundred thousand people painlessly?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    1. Talk to them? "Hi, so, this powerful entity in the afterlife needs to feast on enough souls to shatter it's prison to destroy the ordered afterlife and is that a straightjacke-"
    2. It's morals. Morales is Spiderman/the medic hero in HotS.
    3. Show them the truth? Refer to #1
    4. Do you have an easy way to kill a few hundred thousand people painlessly?
    It's not morals actually, it's morale.

    And yes, it's WoW after all. The point 1 could've been somehow proven right by some of the characters that exist in the WoW lore, but she decided to go with the dumbest way.

    If she wanted to empower the Maw/Jailer with as many souls as possible?
    She failed nonetheless. She could've kill more people to hasten her plans, but she didn't. She could order the horde to fight with the Alliance but she didn't do so. She started yelling "You are all nothing" instead of focusing on her plan.

    She's just stupid.

  17. #37
    So they really are going full Lightning. This is some cringey light novel shit good lord what a mess.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Not like she could talk with them first. Not trying to bring their morales down, not trying to show them the truth, not trying to even ease their pain somehow.
    Recent lore interview stated that being raised as an Undead does not damn you to the Maw.

    To add: Being raised pulls your original soul back from the Shadowlands - and you forget all of your experiences/memories of the Shadowlands if pulled back.


    They're kind of just broadly doing brush strokes to clear out the possible plot holes in some areas.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    So they really are going full Lightning. This is some cringey light novel shit good lord what a mess.
    This is exactly why I love it.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzek View Post
    This is exactly why I love it.
    I can't wait for her to get the mangekyo sharingan and ultra instinct to balance the force forever as a giant angel made of fire.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

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