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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    Sylvanas whole speech only begs a lot of questions, like...
    • What exactly do she even mean by "free will?"
    • What cycle/system(s) does she think she's trying to break?
    • How does she know breaking this "cycle" isn't going to royally fuck up reality itself?

    The last point is what really gets me worried about how Blizz handles her "motives." Natural cycles aren't just arbitrary things someone somewhere set up to be toyed with, they are the result of a multitude of chaotic systems eventually finding an energy balance. Messing with any one part, like introducing a new species or damning a small river, just triggers the Law of Unintended Consequences. It's weird to me that they have Sylvanas seemingly arbitrarily assume that she can mess with this balance of energy between life and death, and not really fuck things up for everyone.
    You make a good point, however during the campaign we're told that current Shadowlands weren't actually this way in the past. So the original order had already been disturbed at some point. We don't know how and to what extent though. What's more, Shadowlands didn't come to be naturally, they were created, so were the zones, by their respective caretakers. I'm not even sure if natural order applies in WoW because everything (except light and void?) was seemingly created by some other higher being.

    And now that I think about it, has there ever actually been order and balance in Warcraft's universe at any point in time? Cosmic forces are constantly one upping one another. One could argue that the constant fight IS the balance but that doesn't turn out well for the little people. At some point something's gotta give
    Last edited by bagina; 2020-11-24 at 08:43 PM.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Musta View Post
    SOOOOO sylvannas is the Yhwach of warcraft?
    Anyway Anduin the chosen one, already feels like Ichigo .

    "Tt is precisely what i need"
    I want these classes in new x-pac Necromancer,RuneMaster,Warden,BladeMaster,DarkRanger,Dragonsworn,Alchemist,Lich,Tinker

  3. #83
    When does this cinematic occur? I've already saved Anduin in ntro questline and it wasn't shown.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Anduin saying "I am so tired of your games" is very relatable because it mirrors the feelings of the community who are also very tired of Blizzard's writing.
    Honestly? That was the one part in that scene that I liked because it felt so goddamn relatable.

  5. #85
    Keyboard Turner
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    "We have never had free will! We're in a video game called World of Warcraft! Nerds sit at their computers and control our every action."

  6. #86
    Warchief Ardenaso's Avatar
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    I'm so sorry Alleria but I think I'm a Sylvanas fanboy now

  7. #87
    Over 9000! Kyphael's Avatar
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    The tension between those two is off the charts. Just make out. It's hard to take anymore conflict between them seriously after watching them flap their gums at each other during all of BfA. At this point they're like an old married couple regurgitating the same old arguments. This is where Shadowlands' narrative is already tiresome; it's the same two characters' ideals clashing at the forefront. I thought with Anduin being imprisoned we'd get another protagonist's perspective, but no. We get a scene nearly identical to Ruins of Lordaeron or every other Sylvanas/Anduin face-to-face.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    Sylvanas whole speech only begs a lot of questions, like...
    • What exactly do she even mean by "free will?"
    • What cycle/system(s) does she think she's trying to break?
    • How does she know breaking this "cycle" isn't going to royally fuck up reality itself?

    The last point is what really gets me worried about how Blizz handles her "motives." Natural cycles aren't just arbitrary things someone somewhere set up to be toyed with, they are the result of a multitude of chaotic systems eventually finding an energy balance. Messing with any one part, like introducing a new species or damning a small river, just triggers the Law of Unintended Consequences. It's weird to me that they have Sylvanas seemingly arbitrarily assume that she can mess with this balance of energy between life and death, and not really fuck things up for everyone.
    1) I believe the idea is that if everyone is immortal there's less control. The life and death cycle of control basically works that you're born in a specific period, you can only meet the other people that live during your timeline, and when you die, another entity sorts you after death. Generally, the lack of free will is enforced in two parts, if someone is born into a poor environment, they face a harder life, and generally make poorer decisions. This can result in an afterlife sorting into an eternally poor fate.

    2) The life to death cycle.

    3) This is probably where everything goes sideways. Most dictators actually believe that they're breaking the cycle, but in the end, they don't. Generally, when a dictator is dethroned the replacing dictator is even worse, however, the people fighting for to dethrone the dictator believe they're going to make real change. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    I can't wait for her to get the mangekyo sharingan and ultra instinct to balance the force forever as a giant angel made of fire.
    Not gonna lie I'd take it. To me the story has always been pretty meh, the more anime/trash it gets the better for me.

  10. #90
    Its easy to answer your questions just by watching the cinematic. She refers to the life itself as something unnatural, just a flicker in eternity you have to spend where arbiter decides. She is right in this regard. Whoever made this system of life and death is a douchebag for sure.
    She also believes that the Jailer wants to fix this. How things will play out we just gonna see in this expansion.

  11. #91
    I want to know what was going to follow "We can't even choose who we..." where Sylvannas stops.

    I am interpreting that part as a possible love interest that was or is being denied. The facial reaction and overall tone is something that I feel like I can relate to.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by majesta View Post
    I want to know what was going to follow "We can't even choose who we..." where Sylvannas stops.

    I am interpreting that part as a possible love interest that was or is being denied. The facial reaction and overall tone is something that I feel like I can relate to.
    Its (most likely) Nathanos, the man she loved but was socially shunned from being with.

    Then they both died and became twisted versions of themselves, more or less incapable of love.
    Last edited by WonderZebra; 2020-11-25 at 03:15 AM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    Its (most likely) Nathanos, the man she loved but was socially shunned from being with.

    Then they both died and became twisted versions of themselves, more or less incapable of love.
    100% they will throw a curve ball and make Sylvannas a lesbian and that family that dies in the cinematic was her lover.

  14. #94
    So I feel just based on this dialogue, she will succeed and break the cycle unleashing the citizens of the shadowlands which will open them up as allied races, but maybe then death is just death and you go nowhere or something idk. She seems gung ho on needing someone who can use light magic though. Perhaps Calia will end up being her pawn instead of anduin? Or the other holy human.... in stormwind

  15. #95
    Scarab Lord Gamevizier's Avatar
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    *goes on a speech about how no one on Azeroth has any real -choice- and that the Jailor intends to set everyone free from their pre-determined fate.*

    *hears that Anduin will not co-operate with them in the Jailor's scheme.*

    *tells Anduin he has no choice in this matter and he will help them whether he likes it or not.*

    I'm like... really?

  16. #96
    As the famous quote goes:
    "A good psychiatrist today, keeps insanity away!" or something like that.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathwing Aspect Of Death View Post
    If what she is saying is true, it would explain why the jailer, literally standing 50 feet away from us in the maw intro didn't kill is there. Instead he let us charge up the portal and escape. There are more maw creatures then legion monsters so why didn't the jailer or his fleet kill us? I have a feeling that the jailer was sent there by force. Now he is using the unbreakable will of the *champions* to aid him. But first we have to level up and get stronger.
    Yeah, that seems like the Player is, once again, the key to everything. We will very probably free the Jailer at some point because we have the Power of Friendship inside us or bullshit like that (just like the Azshara's stuff), then we'll kill him because we're that kind of heroes, we kill things that nobody could kill eons ago, thanks to the friendships we built during this journey of course.

    Regarding that good ol' Sylvie stuff, the more I think about it the less I feel she'll be redempted. All this seems set up so that she realizes she's a tool to Jailer's ultimate destruction, but probably a bit too late. The entire arc surrounding Anduin doesn't sound subtle to me, Jailer will probably be more interested in using Anduin as a tool than Sylvanas so he'll just dump her somewhere at one point as he found a more powerful weapon. He fell in love with that Human Potential™ too, because who wouldn't.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Crizdog View Post
    100% they will throw a curve ball and make Sylvannas a lesbian and that family that dies in the cinematic was her lover.
    While I'd be all for lesbian Sylvie, revealing her as one now would be a mistake imo. First, making the villain gay would be seen as in poor taste by a lot of people. Not to mention she might die this expansion, so revealing that a character is gay just to kill them off moments later wouldn't look good either.
    Second, that would just give ammo to drones that complain about "woke" Blizzard and female characters. They would surely claim Blizzard made her gay to shield her from criticism our something like that. No, I want to avoid such shitshow.

    But I don't think it was about loving Nathanos because really. Their relationship wasn't some big taboo, I mean her own sisters hooked up with humans. Getting the side-eye from some elves is not what I'd consider a big ordeal. From her expression it felt more grave than that.

    Perhaps she wanted to meet her mother or brother but found out they got their memories wiped and don't remember her or something.
    Last edited by bagina; 2020-11-25 at 09:53 AM.

  19. #99
    It'll be interesting to see which of the armchair novelist's theories regarding which direction Blizzard takes the story turns out to be true. Then again, the Mandalorian is popular for it's "story" and sooooo not because of baby yoda *eye roll*

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    While I'd be all for lesbian Sylvie, revealing her as one now would be a mistake imo. First, making the villain gay would be seen as in poor taste by a lot of people. Not to mention she might die this expansion, so revealing that a character is gay just to kill them off moments later wouldn't look good either.
    Second, that would just give ammo to drones that complain about "woke" Blizzard and female characters. They would surely claim Blizzard made her gay to shield her from criticism our something like that. No, I want to avoid such shitshow.

    But I don't think it was about loving Nathanos because really. Their relationship wasn't some big taboo, I mean her own sisters hooked up with humans. Getting the side-eye from some elves is not what I'd consider a big ordeal. From her expression it felt more grave than that.

    Perhaps she wanted to meet her mother or brother but found out they got their memories wiped and don't remember her or something.
    Nah they won't kill her off unless it is a " sacrifice " type of death, She is loved by too many players and i remember them saying she won't be a Garrosh 2.0. While i do think making her a lesbian out of nowhere would be a huge cop out i do agree with you about Nathanos since as you stated her sisters we're with humans and it wasn't such a big deal.

    I think however the reason they will throw that curve ball will be because of that cinematic, if you remember from WC3 she put up a huge fight and actually caused Arthas to get furious at her for being such a pest and causing so many issues for him, However if you watch the cinematic with her dying she just recklessly gets herself killed for literally no reason to protect the family and then becomes a banshee when she sees their corpses.

    No reason for blizzard to retcon her from being a badass ranger general to some 15 IQ retard that gets themselves killed trying to " Fully sick 420 blaze it no scope " the leader of the scourge army. Which means she would of loved/cared for that family and we know she didn't have 3 sisters.

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