Shadowlands Sylvanas and Anduin cinematic.

[Soon-TM]

“Going forward, I do think she’s a very nuanced character. It’s not just that she’s straight up pure evil.”

Oh no, please no more of that "nuanced" or "morally grey" BS, for the Eternal Sun's sake. C'mon, we all know already how it turned out.

[VladlTutushkin]

Oh no, please no more of that "nuanced" or "morally grey" BS, for the Eternal Sun's sake. C'mon, we all know already how it turned out.

I think its too late for that now. Well, i mean... Alliance story cant get ANY worse. And we all predicted that Sylvanas will be a hero and since horde pushed all the blame on Sylvanas blame will be absolved. Guess what? I always said Blizz have clear preferences in the story.

[mhdoe]

This is not a "good guy" thing in my opinion she thought when she broke free from the lich king she had free will to do as she pleased. But after dying when she jumped from ice crown she learned no one has free will and others decide you life and afterlife. Only to be used as fuel and returned to do it over again making your deeds and life basically useless and your decisions not matter making life a revolving prison.

[Super Dickmann]

I think its too late for that now. Well, i mean... Alliance story cant get ANY worse. And we all predicted that Sylvanas will be a hero and since horde pushed all the blame on Sylvanas blame will be absolved. Guess what? I always said Blizz have clear preferences in the story.

For my Delaryn bet of this expansion I'll buy an Anduin shirt if Sylvanas gets redeemed and Tyrande cast as wrong for being against her. Having so many villain flags, such retarded characterization and having been cast as everything that's wrong with the world by author's mouthpiece Anduin can't be wrong. Ground rules are: Sylvanas is acknowledged as positive by Anduin, Tyrande is told she is wrong by him, Baine or one of the other mouthpieces. Sig it.

[Vakir]

For my Delaryn bet of this expansion I'll buy an Anduin shirt if Sylvanas gets redeemed and Tyrande cast as wrong for being against her. Having so many villain flags, such retarded characterization and having been cast as everything that's wrong with the world by author's mouthpiece Anduin can't be wrong. Ground rules are: Sylvanas is acknowledged as positive by Anduin, Tyrande is told she is wrong by him, Baine or one of the other mouthpieces. Sig it.

Did you ever buy that last one? ;D

[Soon-TM]

Did you ever buy that last one? ;D

Iirc our Dickmann friend's deal was that he would buy the shirt if Delaryn hadn't eventually betrayed Sylvie. There is no evidence about her (Delaryn's) whereabouts afaik, but it is strongly implied that most of the nelfs raised by Sylvie in Darkshore, and possibly Teldrassil as well, ditched lady BBQ (understandable) and travelled to the other side of the world looking for moral support from Anduin's BFF (completely bonkers).

[VladlTutushkin]

For my Delaryn bet of this expansion I'll buy an Anduin shirt if Sylvanas gets redeemed and Tyrande cast as wrong for being against her. Having so many villain flags, such retarded characterization and having been cast as everything that's wrong with the world by author's mouthpiece Anduin can't be wrong. Ground rules are: Sylvanas is acknowledged as positive by Anduin, Tyrande is told she is wrong by him, Baine or one of the other mouthpieces. Sig it.

Done and done. And this time you are not getting away via a clause D-man. After all Delaryn remained Super Horde Loyal Night Elf for no fucken reason. We should request a fanart of her doing "lok tar" and whole horde cringing while forsaken facepalming in the backround and Calia does "thumbs up" with a dopey smile. But sylvanas redemption is about inevitable so be ready to buy that shirt.

[Darth-Piekus]

The question is what does Sylvannas represent for her fanbase? Do they like Sylvannas because she produces drama or is there something else?

[Yarathir]

And if Afterlife is so unfair and flawed then “tearing it down” and rebuilding makes her a “good guy” in the context. Maybe its you who should find a spare brain?

It isn't flawed. She was the one who broke it in the first place because she was one of the souls that was considered irredeemable and through doing so cursed thousands of soul to the Maw that might have otherwise gone to fairer afterlives.

[VladlTutushkin]

For my Delaryn bet of this expansion I'll buy an Anduin shirt if Sylvanas gets redeemed and Tyrande cast as wrong for being against her. Having so many villain flags, such retarded characterization and having been cast as everything that's wrong with the world by author's mouthpiece Anduin can't be wrong. Ground rules are: Sylvanas is acknowledged as positive by Anduin, Tyrande is told she is wrong by him, Baine or one of the other mouthpieces. Sig it.

The question is what does Sylvannas represent for her fanbase? Do they like Sylvannas because she produces drama or is there something else?

Its pretty simple. She is liked because she is easy to like as long as you play horde and simp for her. Problem is - her popularity comes at EVERYBODY'S else expense. Even those horde players who dislike her. So while she is an easy and safe choice to root for since devs pretty much play her side that harms all other sides of the game and all other fanbases.

- - - Updated - - -

It isn't flawed. She was the one who broke it in the first place because she was one of the souls that was considered irredeemable and through doing so cursed thousands of soul to the Maw that might have otherwise gone to fairer afterlives.

Also most of the bad stuff and chaos happening in Covenant zones can be traced back to Jailer. Yeah, even Bastion civil war. System wasnt perfect but all afterlifes are like that, but it worked and in general things were fine until Jailer decided to trash it.

[Yarathir]

All I'm hearing from Sylvanas is "Lifes not fair! WAAAHHHHHHHH!!!"

Stop trying to bring the whole world down, just because you're still bitter that Arthas beat you.

No. It's more so "I did so many bad things that I would be sent to the bad people afterlife and I don't want that so I'm gonna tear it all down and consign innocents to the bad people afterlife instead WAAAAH!!"

[VladlTutushkin]

No. It's more so "I did so many bad things that I would be sent to the bad people afterlife and I don't want that so I'm gonna tear it all down and consign innocents to the bad people afterlife instead WAAAAH!!"

Also her "i had no choice" is such a tripe. Like... When you fed Blight to a young woman your minions captured and watched her dissolve in agony and you SMILED while doing so... oh yeah that was such a forced choice. You definitely had no other option but do that AND enjoy it too. We cant even say that "She did what she had to" like with Warhammer exterminatuses because she genuinely enjoyed torment and doom she inflicted on others and was gleefully pursuing that. Not just killing people o being immoral but receiving pleasure from that.

[Yarathir]

Oh look at that, Sylvanas's motives are more "high schooler throwing a rebellious temper tantrum" than even her 'IT'S NOT A PHASE DAD' monologues suggested previously. Gods is it tiring dealing with villains whose motivations wouldn't look out of place on someone's MySpace, complete with a shitty theme that autoplays Evanescence.

Kek. That perfectly describes Sylvanas.

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Also her "i had no choice" is such a tripe. Like... When you fed Blight to a young woman your minions captured and watched her dissolve in agony and you SMILED while doing so... oh yeah that was such a forced choice. You definitely had no other option but do that AND enjoy it too. We cant even say that "She did what she had to" like with Warhammer exterminatuses because she genuinely enjoyed torment and doom she inflicted on others and was gleefully pursuing that. Not just killing people o being immoral but receiving pleasure from that.

But that's all okay because life is a curse.

Yet not living is also a curse because the afterlife is bad? Hmh..

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So what are the odds of her being a major friendly character in a patch or two before she sacrifices herself for the greater good to keep the jailor in check - like Illidan and Kerrigan?

Hopefully 0%
Probably 80%

[VladlTutushkin]

Kek. That perfectly describes Sylvanas.

- - - Updated - - -


But that's all okay because life is a curse.

Yet not living is also a curse because the afterlife is bad? Hmh..

You know. She did that BEFORE Cata so back then she had no idea about Jailer and so on. And somehow that makes it even worse... Take Warhammer again - single worst race there (arguably) are Dark Eldars who torture and mutilate their slaves to appease an evil god who otherwise will take their souls if they stop being edgiest MFers in the Universe. So... When worse race in Grimdark setting has better motivation then Sylvanas. Because back then she had no deals or pacts or knowledge of afterlife. She just wanted to make people suffer to get her itch scratched.

[Yarathir]

You know. She did that BEFORE Cata so back then she had no idea about Jailer and so on. And somehow that makes it even worse... Take Warhammer again - single worst race there (arguably) are Dark Eldars who torture and mutilate their slaves to appease an evil god who otherwise will take their souls if they stop being edgiest MFers in the Universe. So... When worse race in Grimdark setting has better motivation then Sylvanas. Because back then she had no deals or pacts or knowledge of afterlife. She just wanted to make people suffer to get her itch scratched.

You can't really hold her responsible. She's a victim, too, you know.

I'm sure everyone she victimized will understand that and forgive her.

[VladlTutushkin]

You can't really hold her responsible. She's a victim, too, you know.

I'm sure everyone she victimized will understand that and forgive her.

Especially those souls that got sucked dry by the Jailer and now ceased to exist. Gone forever. Or those that were borken by torment and became his slave-soldiers or soul-weapons and now only exist in perpetual pain and frenzy. I bet they will understand that. Like you know, all those civilians and especially children.

[Super Dickmann]

Did you ever buy that last one? ;D

No, like @Soon-TM said, she did turn on Sylvanas, except instead of her being a renegade protege that rejects Sylvanas's world view and reconnects with her people she crossed a continent through the magnetic field of Calia's tits and was cured of her depression by this human princess who shares neither her background nor her religion. Then she may or may not have joined the Horde. We don't know since she disappeared.

So I was right in a way entirely contrary to what I expected. Both @VladlTutushkin and I, who are radically different on the Sylvanas question agree that this was a terrible resolution, but since we technicality never saw her reject Sylvanas on-screen, only join Calia and presumably the Horde, I've put clauses in here to explain what'd qualify and force me to either lose some of my wallet's contents or lose honor and have to pull a Sadfang.

As for Sylvanas's appeal, @Darth-Piekus, she was the only driver of conflict in the entirety of BFA and essentially the last stand for the Horde being something other than a discount Alliance populated by Anduin's orbiters, even if that something else were mustache-twirling dickheads. I don't think you need me to explain to you why the extant Unifaction cast are all boring clones of one another, I think you can trust the writers' call to put them all in a time-out while focusing on the far more interesting Shadowlands content. Past that she was the face of the Forsaken for a reason and they and the orcs are my favorite races.

[Gelannerai]

You can't really hold her responsible. She's a victim, too, you know.

I'm sure everyone she victimized will understand that and forgive her.

Draenor is free.

I honestly wonder who Danuser knows in the industry. There’s no way he got to his current position based on his own merit/writing ability.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Villains considering themselves good guys/the righteous ones is not new.

I just needed to spend 2 seconds in the River of Souls to have my hatred for Sylvanas increased tenfold. The spirits so clearly coming from the Teldrassil fire are heartwrenching.

[bagina]

Oh wait I got it. They're totally gonna rezz all the fallen nelves if they redeem Sylvanas, aren't they? Holy shit, they totally will. She'll have the power to unmake reality at her fingertips and she'll choose to rez the elves instead. Omg, I cracked the code. Screencap this.

The question is what does Sylvannas represent for her fanbase? Do they like Sylvannas because she produces drama or is there something else?

Let this cinematic be your answer. It converted me into a full blown member of the Church of Sylvanas