Arbiter - What broke the cycle (Answer found?)

[Kellorion]

Maybe it was the sword, and the red blast was Azerothian life energy.

[DeltrusDisc]

Yeah but the Voice of the Arbiter guy said she hadn’t stirred “for many cycles” ... how long is a cycle?

My guess is Nerzhul

And this has to do something with the Dreadlords

They already said this happened during Legion.

Definitely not Ner'zhul. And if you disagree, then can you at least explain why? I cannot fathom why Ner'zhul of all characters would have affected the realm of death... in mid-Legion. O_o

Meanwhile, Gul'dan died mid-Legion.
KJ died mid-Legion, on Argus, so he actually died.
Sargeras and Argus were dealt with in Legion, culminating with Sargeras potentially mortally stabbing Azeroth.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

[Houle]

Sheep keep saying it's Argus, only people who never cleared the raid say it was him.

Yes Argus turns red in Mythic, Blizzard has stated many times that Mythic is non canon for the story anymore which is why they stopped doing fights like Imperator/Archimonde that had mythic phases that actually mattered.
Next, the pantheon clearly state they were going to use his spirit to imprison Sargeras. We also don't know how Pantheon work, as when they died Sargeras was able to find their spirits in space somewhere. They didn't go to the shadowlands. But besides that fact, he was used to imprison sargeras so he's technically also imprisoned as the seal.

The most logical choices are Kil'jaeden, Xavius, Gul'dan

conspiracy theorists would say it was one of those 3
-kil'jaeden was a demon and died in the nether. his soul is destroyed. demons who perma-die dont go to the shadowlands, blizz confirmed this

-gul'dan got his soul burned by illidan with fel. hes also not there (and it doesnt matter that hes from AU draenor, as other people from AU draenor died before him on MU azeroth). also, blizz already said every version of a character combines in the afterlife, like a rope

-xavius is a) not nearly important or powerful enough and b) its not even sure he really died, as blizz stated hes "deader than the last time he died" but maybe not rlly dead-dead

so come back with some more bullshit next time

people are putting too much thought into that red colour. blizz used it to to distinguish that specific soul from the rest, and to signify its corruption.
if they made it blue like all the other souls, you would be able to tell it apart, since its swimming in a mass of blue

[Traveler Voltin]

quickly how people forget that Argus's soul was used to seal away Sargeras with the rest of the titans.
shame

[qwerty123456]

Are we sure it was even a soul? It didn't swirl like the rest of them it came in like it was aimed at her.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I think people are assuming it was a soul. Make sense as the cinematic shows a whirlwind of souls swirling around the Arbiter.


The emphasis on the color of this "thing" and the way it was shot directly at the Arbiter versus it swirling around like everything else tells me it was not a soul. A red energy "blast" of some sort.


But that would be... weird.

[Dazmalak]

So, Sylvanas gets put in charge of the Horde via mysterious death whispers to Vol'jin at the beginning of Legion. Wouldn't that imply that the whole "death machine being broken" was already in the works prior to Ursoc dying as well as prior to Illidans revival and Argus being dropped next to Azeroth? How did anyone prior to Legion know that Argus (or anyone else we know of in Legion) would die and cause the Arbiter to shut down with its soul? I thought Sylvanas becoming warchief was to further that goal, but there's no way anyone could know ALL of those events would happen as they did (except bronze dragon maybe?)

None of it really makes any sense tbh. What kind of weapon is Anduin or Blaine supposed to be? Why does the Jailer need an army? Sylvanas gave us a very...generic explanation of her motives, which are still more or less in the dark.

Shadowlands gives me some D&D Planescape vibes, which is kind of cool, but the main story and everything surrounding it just seems like a convoluted mess.

[Feanoro]

the main story and everything surrounding it just seems like a convoluted mess.

That's exactly what it is. Expect more BfA style asspulls that don't explain a damn thing.

[Traveler Voltin]

So, Sylvanas gets put in charge of the Horde via mysterious death whispers to Vol'jin at the beginning of Legion. Wouldn't that imply that the whole "death machine being broken" was already in the works prior to Ursoc dying as well as prior to Illidans revival and Argus being dropped next to Azeroth? How did anyone prior to Legion know that Argus (or anyone else we know of in Legion) would die and cause the Arbiter to shut down with its soul? I thought Sylvanas becoming warchief was to further that goal, but there's no way anyone could know ALL of those events would happen as they did (except bronze dragon maybe?)

None of it really makes any sense tbh. What kind of weapon is Anduin or Blaine supposed to be? Why does the Jailer need an army? Sylvanas gave us a very...generic explanation of her motives, which are still more or less in the dark.

Shadowlands gives me some D&D Planescape vibes, which is kind of cool, but the main story and everything surrounding it just seems like a convoluted mess.

Jailer need an army to destroy those who imprisoned him. also there is the fact that Light and void have started getting more war happy.

[vondevon]

-xavius is a) not nearly important or powerful enough and b) its not even sure he really died, as blizz stated hes "deader than the last time he died" but maybe not rlly dead-dead

I agree that while Argus seems like the most likely culprit for more reasons than just the "Death Titan" title, there is the caveat about the last of his power being used to seal Sargeras at the Seat of the Pantheon.

There is still a small chance that it could be Xavius, though. First, there's this quote from Xal'atath:

Xal'atath whispers: Xavius, running from one master to the next, scrambling for power, yet defeated again and again. The God of the Deep picks a poor champion? Or, is there something else at play?

Next, he's kind of in a unique position as far as his propensity for corruption goes. He is deeply connected with the Emerald Dream (the realm of Life) and most recently empowered by N'Zoth (the realm of Void). We saw him corrupt the Tear of Elune and quite easily turn Ysera to the Nightmare using N'zoth's power. It's certainly possible that connecting with his soul broke the Arbiter's purpose.

[Villager720]

As far as the Gul’dan piece goes - I’ fairly certain our AU buddy was probably in the “so much demonic energy he’s got a demon soul now” camp by the time he died - so I think he’s out there in the nether currently.

My money is on Argus being the Arbiter break.
He got red, the energy burst was red. And then she stirred when we, covered in Titan juju head-to-foot, arrived.

[Treeskee]

in my universe Kain and Raziel broke the cycle of borth, death and rebirth

but i really really like your theory

Great games. So great.

I feel it was likely Argus as well as people are saying only because of the quote from Danuser.

[Alanar]

My question is did whatever broke the Arbiter ever actually leave? We saw it come in with all the other souls, and then we saw it break the various paths that connected to the other afterlives but we never saw the red soul leave and continue on its way into the maw.

Interesting catch.

[Fistfighter]

remember how Blizz showed us burning Teldrassil and said there is something "morally grey" happening, and we all stupidly thought there's gonna be something more complicated at foot like for example the Alliance sacrificing their own citizens in order to deny the Horde a powerful advantage??

And then it turned out it was the most predictable outcome? Sylvanas burned the tree because..... she wanted to burn it.

I think that's what's happening now. People think Blizzard wouldn't just let it be Argus dying, right???? It's gotta be more complicated right??????

it's blizz foreshadowing, it's not gonna be anything complex, guys

[Houle]

id like to remind everyone of 2 things:
First, bolvar said specifically he didnt feel the the massive amount of souls flowing into the maw in legion, like he did in BfA. Which means it definitely happened more at the end of the addon.

And secondly, one part of Ogmots many riddles was

They speak of Argus. Of the one who was awakened. Of the victory that went unnoticed.

what if the "victory that went unnoticed" was the arbiter failing after argus death, giving the jailer a victory which no one noticed.

remember how Blizz showed us burning Teldrassil and said there is something "morally grey" happening, and we all stupidly thought there's gonna be something more complicated at foot like for example the Alliance sacrificing their own citizens in order to deny the Horde a powerful advantage??

And then it turned out it was the most predictable outcome? Sylvanas burned the tree because..... she wanted to burn it.

I think that's what's happening now. People think Blizzard wouldn't just let it be Argus dying, right???? It's gotta be more complicated right??????

it's blizz foreshadowing, it's not gonna be anything complex, guys

also this

[Traveler Voltin]

remember how Blizz showed us burning Teldrassil and said there is something "morally grey" happening, and we all stupidly thought there's gonna be something more complicated at foot like for example the Alliance sacrificing their own citizens in order to deny the Horde a powerful advantage??

And then it turned out it was the most predictable outcome? Sylvanas burned the tree because..... she wanted to burn it.

I think that's what's happening now. People think Blizzard wouldn't just let it be Argus dying, right???? It's gotta be more complicated right??????

it's blizz foreshadowing, it's not gonna be anything complex, guys

the soul of argus was used to seal Sargeras.
they would have to recton more to make it fit.

[Houle]

the soul of argus was used to seal Sargeras.
they would have to recton more to make it fit.

acting like thats anything out of the ordinary for blizz LOL
it would be strange if they didnt retcon smth

[Traveler Voltin]

acting like thats anything out of the ordinary for blizz LOL
it would be strange if they didnt retcon smth

well the new head of writing lore is recton happy. which ruins things.

[Selastan]

I honestly have no idea at this point. All we DO KNOW is the time frame (mid-late Legion) and that it appeared to be a special, red soul that did it. It's unlikely to be Gul'Dan, because if him being an alternate-timeline counterpart dying in the main timeline was enough, then all the Iron Horde who charged through the Dark Portal at the launch of WoD would have obliterated the Arbiter. The question we should be asking is, what mortals do we know of have special souls, or who would have knowledge of and desire to manipulate the shadowlands?

I haven't finished questing yet, so I may be missing some pieces, but the earliest we see things start going wrong is when Uther dies. This starts Devos on the path of doubt, leading to her becoming Mawsworn. The Mawsworn have a connection to Helya, who has a connection to the titan watchers and Sylvanas. Devos and Helya are the key to this, somehow they must have done something to a mortal soul to sabotage the Arbiter. Like in Hellsing when Alucard is absorbing the souls of London and eats Schrodinger, thus disabling him due to the catboy's special vampire power or whatever. Now, we know that the Arbiter instantly judges all the souls...my theory is, this wasn't an accident. The machine of death didn't break due to alternate worlds or a titan soul, it was due to malicious sabotage, something Sylvanas was secretly capable of doing herself. She killed something, something that was so corrupt or cursed that it imparted it's curse into the Arbiter. A poisoned soul.

[shockzine]

I figured it out and it makes perfect sense. Dragonball evolution broke the arbitor