Why doesnt the horde use the iron horde technology?

[Aucald]

They were allies for a bit to clean up the Legion, but we don't ever see any holy Mag'har priests, what we do see are Shadowmoon void ritualists, who are represented by shadow priests because it's the closest to that effect. I won't discount them being somewhat more open to the Light before Xe'ra showed up, but we don't really see it in evidence, they mostly seem unhappy with the Light and associate it with the draenei and their control. We see the Shadowmoon orcs do the same thing Ner'zhul's did on Draenor and while they're shamanistic, I don't think they'd be automatically anti-void, indeed, the opposite. The Death thing I can more readily see.

In general Ihe out of story reason is obviously cost-saving, but in-story I can also buy that it's a large space and since only some clans would be up for it, it'd not be settled.

The quest "Bonds Forged Through Battle" delineates the path to the formation of the Lightbound. The Draenei started by more peaceful sermonizing, to which some Orcs responded willingly. As their zealotry increased they started forcibly converting people and turning them against those who didn't respond to their entreaties. The Shadowmoon Darkcasters are kind of the marquee Priest template for Mag'har Priest NPC's, but this quest still gives a canon rationale for Holy and Discipline Priests among the Orcs. Not to mention that the Shadowmoon Clan had a strong proscription against using the power of the Dark Star (K'ara), precisely because of its dangerous and deleterious effects. The acts of AU Ner'zhul were not accepted by the more conventional Shadowmoon, represented by Rulkan, who considered the use of the Void and necromancy as a horrific defilement of their ancestors. With the defeat of Ner'zhul and the breaking of the Iron Horde, I would imagine most Shadowmoon share in that traditional proscription, and follow Rulkan's views as opposed to those of Ner'zhul - they wouldn't really be into the Void, despite their use of Shadow magic.

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Huh? Wait, shouldn't Mag'har have Paladins then?

Apparently they're in the Lightbound forces:

[Thage]

check again. he said garrosh was there for 35 years.

Yes. Garrosh was there for thirty-five years as time flowed on Draenor, and then, on Azeroth, two years after Garrosh left, the Dark Portal opened up onto Draenor. The Warlords of Draenor cinematic, Times Change, explicitly notes the events as taking place "35 Years Ago," placing it in Year -4. The intervening years were spent establishing the Iron Horde, wresting control of most of the landmass from the ogres and draenei (we enter Shadowmoon Valley and quest in the draenei areas on the tail end of the Iron Horde's attempted genocide, while the Iron Horde had already pushed the ogres back to localized holdings), and after 35 years, the now-established and -entrenched Iron Horde opened the Dark Portal to Azeroth, two years after Garrosh stood trial in the first trial held for war crimes, as the timeline on Draenor had since caught up to Azeroth's timeline.

It's only because of Chromie that we're able to jump forward in time on the alternate Draenor to bring in the Mag'har to Azeroth; it's unknown if the timelines desynced after the connection between the two was severed, or if Chromie intentionally picked a point in that timeline's future where the Mag'har would be desperate for somewhere to escape the Lightbound and thus would be receptive to the Horde's offer. While the timelines were synchronized thanks to Garrosh and Kairoz, time advanced at an even pace between both timelines.

edit: Unless you intend to insist that the Iron Horde, its massive manufacturing operations, widespread industrialization, and becoming the dominant military force on Draenor happened in a two-year timespan, which is frankly impossible even by Warcraft's fast-and-loose standards with how such things work. You don't take a primarily-tribal society and completely industrialize it overnight.

[Traveler Voltin]

Garrosh was in AU Draenor for 2 years before the Iron horde attacked MU Azeorth. they were technically 33 years behind us. then we stomp them and the legion forces. we go home and the portal seal.

when we go recruit the Mag'har orcs its now the AU timeline as now MU timeline. in that time they expanded, allied with the Draenei and then the Draenei turned on them when AU Xe'ra showed up.

[Thage]

Garrosh was in AU Draenor for 2 years before the Iron horde attacked MU Azeorth. they were technically 33 years behind us. then we stomp them and the legion forces. we go home and the portal seal.

when we go recruit the Mag'har orcs its now the AU timeline as now MU timeline. in that time they expanded, allied with the Draenei and then the Draenei turned on them when AU Xe'ra showed up.

I'm going to need your source on that, because no civilization in Warcraft, period, underwent massive industrialization, established a continental infrastructure, and perfected new technologies in a two-year time frame. Even humans' recent uptick in industrialization and technological achievement, primarily made possible by the assistance of gnomes, has proceeded at a comparable snail's crawl, and they are nowhere near the gnomes' technological level despite having about a decade of close cooperation with them on a social and economic level. Even the orcs' step up was primarily accomplished by the goblins doing all the real work while the orcs were just trained in the basic use of some of the more general technologies, with Gazlowe in particular brainchilding most of the orcs' technological advancements (and the orcs were building the necessary infrastructure to forge that much metal and amass black powder in those quantities since Orgrimmar's founding a half-decade before the Shattering).

Again, there is no feasible situation where Garrosh went to Draenor, and two years later the Iron Horde was a technological, industrial powerhouse. That sort of industrialization requires decades of concentrated work even in Warcraft, as evidenced by the comparison in tech levels between humans in Warcraft 3, which took place in Year 20, and the modern timeline, the most recent date we have being Year 33 in 7.3.5. That's 13 years with significantly less advancement than that of the Iron Horde, which you (or Blizzard, I'll be fair here) expect us to believe only took two years despite Garrosh having nothing to his name but blueprints.

[deenman]

because its not the story blizzard wants to tell.

what story?this is about consistancy with the world building,its like in anime when they give someone a super powerup that only shows up that one time and then its never used without any explanation....it just shows the major amatour level of the writing team

[Orisai]

it was 2 years after garrosh's arrival that they attacked azeroth.

Garrosh went 35 years back in time. In fact, it was stated at the very beginning of the Warlords of Draenor cinematic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLzhlsEFcVQ

[Soilx3]

Clearly Garrosh didn't spend 35 years in Draenor, just look at him. He looks exactly the same as when he left. He also isn't the type of guy to spend 35 YEARS brooding with vengeance on his mind and just biding his time. Nah, he would make his move as soon as possible and he did.

It's also a bit unknown when exactly he arrived in Draenor as in the cinematic "35 years ago" he's already well acquainted with Grom, they have the iron star and a plan in place to zerg Manny.

[Soon-TM]

Things like iron stars, aircraft carriers n shiet.

Same reason that the Vindicaar suffered a mysterious malfunction and spent the entirety of BfA AFK around Argus: "it is not the story we wanted to tell"

[Utrrabbit]

no. it was 2 years.

players were only there for a year.

Pretty sure in the bool which is canon. It stated he was sent back 35 years.

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Clearly Garrosh didn't spend 35 years in Draenor, just look at him. He looks exactly the same as when he left. He also isn't the type of guy to spend 35 YEARS brooding with vengeance on his mind and just biding his time. Nah, he would make his move as soon as possible and he did.

It's also a bit unknown when exactly he arrived in Draenor as in the cinematic "35 years ago" he's already well acquainted with Grom, they have the iron star and a plan in place to zerg Manny.

Actually he did in the wod opening cinematic. It stated it was 35 years on the past. 35 years was when the orcs were going to drink the demon blood. He spent 35 years their. Orcs and draenai age slower.

[Soilx3]

Pretty sure in the bool which is canon. It stated he was sent back 35 years.

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Actually he did in the wod opening cinematic. It stated it was 35 years on the past. 35 years was when the orcs were going to drink the demon blood. He spent 35 years their. Orcs and draenai age slower.

Yeah, it was 35 years in the past. That doesn't mean the invasion through the portal happened 35 years FROM that point. Orcs might age slower, but Grom was all gray in the Mag'har scenario which was "only" 30 years after the events of WoD. You would think if Garrosh spent 35 years there, there would be some change to him.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Actually he did in the wod opening cinematic. It stated it was 35 years on the past. 35 years was when the orcs were going to drink the demon blood. He spent 35 years their. Orcs and draenai age slower.

orcs age faster then humans, a orc is fully grown around 16 and the oldest orcs are likely only around 70-80.

As to the timeline the cinematic obviously isn’t 35 years before the invasion as the dark portal is already half done and gul’dan isn’t a pile of dust when we get there. He went 35 years into the past spent 2 years then then attacked Azeroth so when we step though it would be 33 years in the past.

[OokOok]

Because maybe they don't know how to use it? Just because something is infront of you doesn't mean you grasp how it works.

That's like landing an f-22 raptor in a country in Africa with little to no technology and expecting them to jump in and fly it just because it's there. Or even taking a child who's never touched a computer and saying "Here it's infront of you, take it apart and put it back together"

[Sorrowseer]

Yeah not really. Horde shouldn't even have an army anymore at this point. Horde has been broken down soo many times last expansions. Yet you guys are apperently just as strong as the alliance still.

Logically you should be stomped over by us Alliance by now.

I think the must reproduce like rats.

[FuxieDK]

We have an aircraft carrier in Nazmir during the Alliance assault.

Tbh I think it would make us too powerful vs the Alliance, only the Alliance are allowed to have powerful things

Alliance faverotism confirmed and cemented.

[omeomorfismo]

The quest "Bonds Forged Through Battle" delineates the path to the formation of the Lightbound. The Draenei started by more peaceful sermonizing, to which some Orcs responded willingly. As their zealotry increased they started forcibly converting people and turning them against those who didn't respond to their entreaties. The Shadowmoon Darkcasters are kind of the marquee Priest template for Mag'har Priest NPC's, but this quest still gives a canon rationale for Holy and Discipline Priests among the Orcs. Not to mention that the Shadowmoon Clan had a strong proscription against using the power of the Dark Star (K'ara), precisely because of its dangerous and deleterious effects. The acts of AU Ner'zhul were not accepted by the more conventional Shadowmoon, represented by Rulkan, who considered the use of the Void and necromancy as a horrific defilement of their ancestors. With the defeat of Ner'zhul and the breaking of the Iron Horde, I would imagine most Shadowmoon share in that traditional proscription, and follow Rulkan's views as opposed to those of Ner'zhul - they wouldn't really be into the Void, despite their use of Shadow magic.

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Apparently they're in the Lightbound forces:

still there isnt any occurence of light user in the horde's maghar. we only see shadowpriests around...

[Aucald]

still there isnt any occurence of light user in the horde's maghar. we only see shadowpriests around...

You don't see any Monks or Mages either, and yet canonically they exist.

[Super Dickmann]

The quest "Bonds Forged Through Battle" delineates the path to the formation of the Lightbound. The Draenei started by more peaceful sermonizing, to which some Orcs responded willingly. As their zealotry increased they started forcibly converting people and turning them against those who didn't respond to their entreaties. The Shadowmoon Darkcasters are kind of the marquee Priest template for Mag'har Priest NPC's, but this quest still gives a canon rationale for Holy and Discipline Priests among the Orcs. Not to mention that the Shadowmoon Clan had a strong proscription against using the power of the Dark Star (K'ara), precisely because of its dangerous and deleterious effects. The acts of AU Ner'zhul were not accepted by the more conventional Shadowmoon, represented by Rulkan, who considered the use of the Void and necromancy as a horrific defilement of their ancestors. With the defeat of Ner'zhul and the breaking of the Iron Horde, I would imagine most Shadowmoon share in that traditional proscription, and follow Rulkan's views as opposed to those of Ner'zhul - they wouldn't really be into the Void, despite their use of Shadow magic.

I know their background, it's why I'm confident in telling you that the Shadowmoon are followers of Ner'zhul's method. Both because Shadow and Void are the same thing btu also because we see them suck out the souls of Alliance troops when they're deployed in Stormsong as part of void rituals. While I don't think we ever see them practice necromancy, which is fair enough given the orcish taboo on defiling their own dead that was such a major issue with Rulkan, it's inarguable that every 'priest' we see on the Mag'har is shadow and that the shadow priests we see in action use an identical skillset and appearance to Ner'zhul's followers. Could there hypothetically be Mag'har light users? Possibly, but we never see any and none are ever mentioned, plus there's a heavy dislike of the Light because of the Lightbound, so I wouldn't bet on it.

As for monks and mages, monks are the closest there are to Burning Blade blademasters and Grom threatens Mar'gok into teaching his soldiers at the end of Code of Rule, so there's also reasoning for it. That said, I'd prefer they not have mages and the connection with monks is slim at best, so I see your point there.

[omeomorfismo]

You don't see any Monks or Mages either, and yet canonically they exist.

blademaster are basically a warrior/monk blend
mage who know, they are effectively stupid, stretching a lot one can think about laughing skull blood "mages". still there arent any reason to believe that a group hating so much the light has any user when there are only shadow priest multiple times

[Aucald]

blademaster are basically a warrior/monk blend
mage who know, they are effectively stupid, stretching a lot one can thing about laughing school blood "mages". still there arent any reason to believe that a group hating so much the light has any user when there are only shadow priest multiple times

I've always thought of Blademasters as Rogue/Warrior blends, myself - since they rely heavily on evasion, agility, and lethal strikes. If Orcs are anything they're pragmatists, which is why Thrall's Horde still makes use of Warlocks despite their history with Fel and the Legion - there's little sense in throwing away a powerful weapon against one's enemies out of misplaced angst. Holy and Discipline Priests may be rare, but they're as possible as Mages and Monks for the Mag'har, and are represented by playable Mag'har.

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I know their background, it's why I'm confident in telling you that the Shadowmoon are followers of Ner'zhul's method. Both because Shadow and Void are the same thing btu also because we see them suck out the souls of Alliance troops when they're deployed in Stormsong as part of void rituals. While I don't think we ever see them practice necromancy, which is fair enough given the orcish taboo on defiling their own dead that was such a major issue with Rulkan, it's inarguable that every 'priest' we see on the Mag'har is shadow and that the shadow priests we see in action use an identical skillset and appearance to Ner'zhul's followers. Could there hypothetically be Mag'har light users? Possibly, but we never see any and none are ever mentioned, plus there's a heavy dislike of the Light because of the Lightbound, so I wouldn't bet on it.

I don't really consider Shadow and Void to be the same thing, nor does the cosmology chart in Chronicle Vol. 1 given that those sphere are delineated. Shadow and Void are related, sure, but they're also different essences. The Void is as much a sentience as it is an energy, whereas Shadow magic has been used by Necromancers, Warlocks, and even Rogues without any connection to the Void proper. The Orcish proscription on the use of the Dark Star was specifically bound up in its use as a form of Necromancy (violation of the ancestors and all), and not necessarily the use of Shadow/Void magic without that aspect - either way, while the marquee Priests among the Mag'har are the Shadowmoon Darkcasters, that doesn't discount other classes that the NPC ranks don't show (e.g. Monks, Mages, etc. etc.) If it's a playable race/class then it's canon, more or less; and not every race and class combination has a marquee NPC to speak of either.

[Traveler Voltin]

Garrosh went 35 years back in time. In fact, it was stated at the very beginning of the Warlords of Draenor cinematic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLzhlsEFcVQ

you arent listening. I said he went back 35 years. he then spent 2 years helping Grommash build up the iron horde. then they attacked Azeroth. AU Draenor was 33 years behind us when they attacked us. the basically attacked a future.