Shadowlands Plothole?

[Nebron]

It's like Rise of Skywalker. Don't pay attention to details. LOOK IT'S UTHER! Just keep moving through the story. Thinking about the details will just make your head hurt. LOOK!! KAEL'THAS!!! The more you think about it, the less sense it makes. LOOK, SYLVANAS HAS A PLAN FOR ALL OF US! THERE IS DRAKA!! MEMBER DRAKA?!?!? It is one giant clusterfuck the second you start poking and prodding the tapestry. JUST KEEP MOVING, DON'T THINK! LOOK, THE ARCHITECTURE IS LIKE IN IIIIICECROWN. MEMBER ICECROWN??? Level up, get loot, have fun with friends overcoming the raid encounters, revel in the great work the Art department did. The story is... not even tertiary at this point. LOOK! CUTE OWL-SERVANTS! JOKES ABOUT TALKING TO THE HAND. MEMBER URSOC??? MANDALORIAN REFERENCE!! PLEASE DON'T THINK ABOUT THE STORY OR THE ILLUSION OF COHERENT STORYTELLING WILL FALL APART!!! MEMBER YSEARA???

Fuck this Add-ons story. For all the interesting changes to gameplay, seriously, fuck the story. It picked up right where BfA left off, high-school levels of fanfiction.

I’ve never expected them to get above BfA, and they did, so it’s the very least I can appreciate really.

The cosmology concept has been a a huge clusterfuck, since their writers are not competent enough to even avoid retconning their own stories after two years. They have played so many games on so many layers that they can wrap them up correctly. But why would they if they can milk the storylines until these are dry as fck.

But to be fair, Shadowlands, when we judge it on its own is quite solid in terms of „Blizzard writing”. I like the whole concept of anima drought, and a simple myster behind Jailer. In glad they finally focused on writing a villian from the beginning to the end.

[Eapoe]

NOONE has read quest text. Ever.

Hyperbole of course but if Blizzard can't tell a decent coherebt narrative without then that is not the fault of the players

Considering quest text is part of the story then yes, it absolutely is the fault of the players.
When it comes to the story, I give players a pass for not knowing certain things IF it happens in the books, as that’s a separate entertainment medium. In my opinion, anything that happens in the books should also be included in game (obviously condensed) or not considered as canon.
That aside, anything that happens in game is all on the players to know, not to gloss over and then complain Blizz sucks at storytelling.

[shadowmatrix]

I mean, turning the noblest, most selfless souls in the entire multiverse into what amounts to functionally mindless delivery vessels is a quite wicked/idiotic affair. So the question would be whether these blue folks are evil or just huge morons.

Maybe they are lawful neutral, caring for neither good nor evil. Only the purpose matters and the purpose is always right.

[Eapoe]

I mean, turning the noblest, most selfless souls in the entire multiverse into what amounts to functionally mindless delivery vessels is a quite wicked/idiotic affair. So the question would be whether these blue folks are evil or just huge morons.

Which actually makes sense as the Kyrian are supposed to be trusted to follow the order of the universe.
After all, look what happens when a soul is not noble and doesn’t ascend to do what they have been entrusted to do. We get an Uther stealing the soul of Arthas and cheating him of his fate to deliver him straight to the Maw without judgement. He may have been destined to go there, but Uther skipped the judging process of the Arbiter, the one being designed to weigh a person’s soul, and took it on himself to enact “justice.”
So yeah, the noblest, selfless souls becoming the Kyrian actually makes sense if you take a second to think about it.

[shadowmatrix]

It's like Rise of Skywalker.

Rise of Skywalker, a story that was created to please the fans no matter what.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Every day, the Kyrians deliver a theoretically infinite number of Thralls into the Maw.

And the Jailer drops infinte Baines off a cliff

[Verdugo]

Rise of Skywalker, a story that was created to please the fans no matter what.

And failing miserably.

[deenman]

the lore has become one big shitshow sadly,and i rly used to enjoy it and think it was pretty good....but they really messed it up,it really started from the wod alternate reality...one legion...but infinite...other words? so that crap is literaly bleeding in sl now

they never should have opened the entire time travel and alternate reality door,it almost never works in any story,let alone an mmo

[VinceVega]

Do we KNOW that the Kyrians have a choice? They just bring the souls into the shadowlands through the veil. Not throw them directly into the maw.

And do we know it would not be worse to ignore the souls in our world and just not ship them into the shadowlands?

[Verdugo]

And do we know it would not be worse to ignore the souls in our world and just not ship them into the shadowlands?

Yes? Because we see lingering souls on Azeroth constantly.

I can see why Devos decided to join the Jailer. She'd be working for him by proxy anyway if she continued doing her job, might as well get the perks of the position.

I wonder if Devos has anything to do with Bezos.

[VinceVega]

Yes? Because we see lingering souls on Azeroth constantly.



I wonder if Devos has anything to do with Bezos.

Does not seem to be good for us. As nearly every ghost is hostile. Imagine EVERYONE and everything stays on azeroth forever.

[Verdugo]

Imagine EVERYONE and everything stays on azeroth forever.

They already do. At least it feels like it with Anduin and Jaina.

[VinceVega]

They already do. At least it feels like it with Anduin and Jaina.

*sigh*

one of those.... kk

[Super Dickmann]

But to be fair, Shadowlands, when we judge it on its own is quite solid in terms of „Blizzard writing”. I like the whole concept of anima drought, and a simple myster behind Jailer. In glad they finally focused on writing a villian from the beginning to the end.

I've actually found pretty much all the leveling content to be enjoyable and the characters fun. On its own Shadowlands is fairly decent by Warcraft standards, I was consistently entertained. But the characters from the last expansion are cancerous growths on it and every attempt at trying to square cosmology and multiple timelines is abysmal. Hell, they even made a good first raid baddie with Denathrius, the Jailer far less so.

[Skulltaker]

Rise of Skywalker, a story that was created to please the fans no matter what.

And it pleased no-one. Good intentions don't guarantee a quality outcome, and hard work doesn't necessarily equal good work. Plenty of people in history worked hard, and yet did terrible work. There is no shame in that, btw.

[Soon-TM]

@Eapoe you don't need the kindest, purest souls for what is basically a ferrying service. You could basically take any regular soul, doesn’t matter if good or evil, and just mindwipe it. Voila, impartiality is ensured.

[Eapoe]

@Eapoe you don't need the kindest, purest souls for what is basically a ferrying service. You could basically take any regular soul, doesn’t matter if good or evil, and just mindwipe it. Voila, impartiality is ensured.

But it requires those types of souls, the purest and strongest, to pass the tests and rites to ascend and become that impartial being.

[Soon-TM]

But it requires those types of souls, the purest and strongest, to pass the tests and rites to ascend and become that impartial being.

Why? If your memories are going to be erased, it doesn’t matter what were you in your past life, since basically you are back to a tabula rasa state. The mindwipe isn't optional anyway.

[Eapoe]

Why? If your memories are going to be erased, it doesn’t matter what were you in your past life, since basically you are back to a tabula rasa state. The mindwipe isn't optional anyway.

Because the rituals require someone that is that selfless and honorable to pass them, obviously showing the commitment to rise above a selfish nature and able to throw away all ties to your previous life. Those that aren’t able to truly be selfless and ascend to the next step are those that doubt and become like Uther and now Devios.
The trials need to be passed to ascend. Without being honorable and selfless you can’t pass the trials. It stands within reason that even though a person may ascend, the true nature of their soul remains. If unable to overcome that nature and be better than it still stands that it can resurface. This makes a Kyrian not be impartial or able to perform their duty.
Let’s take Arthas for example. You can’t take Arthas, send him to Bastion and then mind wipe him to become a Kyrian. His corrupted soul will still remain, and even though his mind has been erased, the evil taint upon him would still be able to corrupt him again, possibly even making him worse than Uther.

[Soon-TM]

Because the rituals require someone that is that selfless and honorable to pass them, obviously showing the commitment to rise above a selfish nature and able to throw away all ties to your previous life. Those that aren’t able to truly be selfless and ascend to the next step are those that doubt and become like Uther and now Devios.
The trials need to be passed to ascend. Without being honorable and selfless you can’t pass the trials. It stands within reason that even though a person may ascend, the true nature of their soul remains. If unable to overcome that nature and be better than it still stands that it can resurface. This makes a Kyrian not be impartial or able to perform their duty.
Let’s take Arthas for example. You can’t take Arthas, send him to Bastion and then mind wipe him to become a Kyrian. His corrupted soul will still remain, and even though his mind has been erased, the evil taint upon him would still be able to corrupt him again, possibly even making him worse than Uther.

Which sounds terribly convoluted and unnecessary.