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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by haiyken View Post
    But your missing one key point here : it was an "cake walk" for you, but am I safe to assume you started Shadowlands with a full set of 100+ item levels gear and a weapon drop from Nathanos (or even better gear) ? While a lot of players from BFA will be as powerful as you, new or returning players will not. It's not even about skill, is purely about gear. New characters or even alt characters will need to group to do this kind of quests. You have the advantage of having played a lot, you're more powerful and you can blast through content. Other people do not.

    You're probably going to tell me that Blizzard should make it in a way that these mobs should scale automatically to being a challenge to every player. But then, player will complain that as they're getting more powerful, ennemies get more powerful as well, and it nullifies the work they put into their character.

    Your idea of basically adding "elite" group quests seems to be a solution for a problem that doesn't really exist. We already have elite mobs to kill as a group (I did a few in Maldraxxus a few hours ago), but most of the time it's a click on the group finder, 2 minutes of bashing the mob, then leaving the group. The mob can't really be soloed (maybe by the most skilled and geared players - but that's a ridiculous small part of the playerbase) so it's already what you're suggesting : we need to form a group to kill it. The Theatre of Pain in Maldraxxus also bring new kind of super elite mobs that can't be soloed because they do so much damage. We always had world bosses that require you to group as well. I mean... I just don't get it. Maybe you want all of this in the leveling process ? It kind of already is (at least all of my Maldraxxus examples are)...

    In my opinion, people are just trying to find way to complain because they can't accept that the game is actually pretty good right now. They find small and personal examples that often doesn't represent how the majority of people is feeling and deeply want the game to change to suit their needs. It's okay to complain about some aspect of the game, maybe you don't like some of it, and it's okay. I don't like all of it either. And it's nice to see people suggesting ways to improve it. But can we all agree that the game is clearly not as bad as this OP wants it to be ? "Challenging" is a matter of perception. "Challenging" is not the same for a 15 years WoW veteran and a new player.
    You missed my key point. I clearly stated that I was not ilevel 100++. I stated 93. If you missed that Im not sure if you got any of it. Try reading my reply once more with that in mind.

    Further:
    Why cant we have 1 optional difficult quest out of 100 easy ones?
    Why cant I bring 16 year old veteran Dave and newbie Charles to face challenging monstrosities at level 20? Half of my circle quit WoW due to it being "hit mobs, chew potato chips and move on". What is wrong with having a challenge that my friends and I may partake? Im talking about people playing together, not people running solo, queing group finder for basicly advanced NPCs.

    This is not only in regards to shadow lands, but every single piece of content from 10 to 60.

    Does "Hogger" ring a bell?

  2. #182
    What? My characters feel weaker than in early BFA.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Brubbahlubs View Post
    You missed my key point. I clearly stated that I was not ilevel 100++. I stated 93. If you missed that Im not sure if you got any of it. Try reading my reply once more with that in mind.

    Further:
    Why cant we have 1 optional difficult quest out of 100 easy ones?
    Why cant I bring 16 year old veteran Dave and newbie Charles to face challenging monstrosities at level 20? Half of my circle quit WoW due to it being "hit mobs, chew potato chips and move on". What is wrong with having a challenge that my friends and I may partake? Im talking about people playing together, not people running solo, queing group finder for basicly advanced NPCs.

    This is not only in regards to shadow lands, but every single piece of content from 10 to 60.

    Does "Hogger" ring a bell?
    My bad. I didn't noticed your "93 ilevel" precision. I'm sorry about that.

    That said, I'm still aligned with what I said. A few of my friends decided to pick up the game during SL pre-patch and they are newbies in WoW, even if they're gamers. While I blast through most of the content, they did struggle to kill some rare/elite mobs while leveing and questing, because they're not familiar with some mechanics and they're still learning to play their characters. Playing with them (and having played the game since Vanilla), I don't see the same challenge as they do, and I'll never be able to. I'm much more confident when playing my character and getting out of certain situation than them, and it's normal.

    So... I don't think "Dave" and "Charles" can face the same challenging monstrosities. Only because it's not the same challenge. It's not just about the mobs hitting harder or having more difficult mechanics (you have dungeons and other instance content for that). It's about differences in player experience within the game. That's my point. It a choice between making it challenging enough for everyone whitout making it seem impossible for the less experienced ones. And this is a game everyone is paying for and the devs don't want people to feel discouraged while questing.

    You point about "optional difficult quests" is the exact point I talked about in my reply. It's already in the game right now. There are quests that you can't solo, except if you're very skilled at playing your character or you have the gear for. Quests you need to group up to do or quests in zones with a lot of strong mobs that ask you to play much more carefully. I started leveling an ungeared alt in SL and had to run away from rare mobs because I couldn't kill it - and I died a few times as well, a thing that never occured when playing my main.

    You're talking about Hogger, but the game is in a different place right now, mainly because of shared tag on mobs that allow players to kill mobs together without having to group together, making it a more fluid way of playing together. How many time did you tag an elite/rare mob at the last second while other players were killing it, making it trivial for you to complete the quest ?

    I want to be clear : I'm not attacking you or saying that you're wrong. I understand what you want from the game and I think it's a valid ask. What I'm trying to explain is that some of what you want is already in the game in some way or the other, and that creating a challenging experience for new and old players is more complicated than you think.

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