Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
8
9
... LastLast
  1. #121
    Anduin is one of the few likable, honest characters in WoW, if that makes you think it's 'cancer' that says a lot about yourself tbh.

    He's a bit boring at times sure, but you really seem to hate him for reasons unlisted here.

    PS: You literally have no clue what a Mary Sue is.

  2. #122
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    18,774
    Quote Originally Posted by Kauko View Post
    I can't stand him either... and when you think that they killed Varian for Anduin to step up... Remember Varian and Garrosh? Damn, this were characters, I could not wait for them to meet in combat and they never did. Blizz really has all the capabilities to make the lore great but they somehow make it... not great.
    I remember that Varian and Garrosh were plot tumors pretty much every time they showed up on-screen. Garrosh went from simpering by a bonfire to insulting the hero single-handedly responsible for stepping up and saving his clan from extinction while he was too busy feeling sad because Daddy turned out to be a bad person, when literally everyone around him was screaming at him to man the fuck up and lead. I'm supposed to believe that crybaby suddenly became some badass who deserved his position as Overlord of the Northrend operation? (well, no, odds are he got the position through pure nepotism and Blizzard crammed in justifications that he wasn't an abject fuckup after the fact in The Shattering and Heart of War once they realized nobody would rally behind a lobotomy patient as Warchief)

    Varian wasn't much better. He's missing for a decade, and the second he comes back, Blizzard pushes him harder than the WWE pushes Roman Reigns. They hand him the Onyxia kill in-lore (something that caused an uproar among players since it was the first time a lore character decisively stole our accomplishments and got singular credit), and as soon as he shows up, all of a sudden literally the rest of the Alliance give him unilateral command over their forces. Magni and Tyrande, who were helping hold the Alliance together while Varian was missing and Prestor was ripping Stormwind apart from within? Completely written out of the plot until Magni got turned to stone, and the next time Tyrande did anything meaningful it was to be patronized by Varian on basic military tactics you'd think someone who's been running a military for ten thousand years would have stumbled across by pure accident if nothing else.

    And every time these two shared a screen, idiocy ensued. What's that? We're fighting the Lich King and literally every dead soldier reinforces his army? Let's fight! What's that? An ancient Titan facility opened up and there's an Old God buried deep within that's been causing serious problems for both of us? Fuck that, we have shitty one-liners and penis-waggling to engage in. What's that? The Horde is carrying out a full-scale invasion of Ashenvale? Let's do nothing as the king of Stormwind runs headfirst into an oncoming army to satiate his ego against the Warchief of the Horde.

    They sure were characters alright, but let's not pretend they were any better-written than Anduin, or that Blizzard wasn't just as obnoxious in relentlessly shoving them down everyones' throats as him, or that they were any less guilty of twisting and warping other characters around them so nobody had enough functioning brain cells to tell them they were being retards when they put their penis-waving match as a higher priority than the Scourge or Yogg-Saron.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  3. #123
    Immortal Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Forsaken Lands of Sweden
    Posts
    7,245
    I like Anduin. I really like how he grew over the course of the expansions and the dynamic he had with Varian. The way he became his own man in Legion with the lessons passed on from his father by finding a balance between his old values and the lessons Varian bestowed upon him I think was done pretty well. Probably one of the more well rounded characters written in WoW with most of his major development being possible to follow in-game from expansion to expansion.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by RCA View Post
    Honestly I’m very curious, who was worst in 94?
    Also, this please. I'm curious too now.

  5. #125
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    18,774
    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    Also, this please. I'm curious too now.
    Pick a character written by Rob Liefeld out of a hat, I s'pose.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    Pick a character written by Rob Liefeld out of a hat, I s'pose.
    I'm curious who the OP was referring to. That's a specific date so they had someone in mind.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    Anduin is one of the few likable, honest characters in WoW, if that makes you think it's 'cancer' that says a lot about yourself tbh.

    He's a bit boring at times sure, but you really seem to hate him for reasons unlisted here.

    PS: You literally have no clue what a Mary Sue is.
    The guy who betrayed the Kaldorei laughed at his dead has the position of "leader of the alliance" when he did not earn it.
    And all this is taken to mean that he is good and the rest are bad.

    That's a Merry Sue and besides, he's not a lovable guy.

    Anduin is the Judge who frees the rapist and rewards him and then sends him to live alongside the victims. And apart from how the judge is, they say everything is fine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Anduin has many flaws de facto puting him out of the definition.
    Which?
    Which does not automatically become that he is right and everyone else is wrong?

  8. #128
    Immortal Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    7,079
    Quote Originally Posted by therealbowser View Post
    you literally have no clue what a Mary Sue is.
    I'm hearing this line very often ITT from the handful of Anduin lovers, but almost no one bothers to elaborate. The most I see is hE hAz fLaW tHeN nOt MaRY sUe LuL

    The whole point of Anduin's particular variant of Sue-dom is precisely that: a character made to be overly positive. Whatever flaws he may have are purely discursive (i.e. they don't carry any consequences at all, at least not for him) and as @Fleugen put it, his virtues are nowhere to be seen, other than being a handsome, blonde idealistic teen. Which is apparently enough to command the univocal admiration from almost every. Single. Major. Character - and the few who don't unequivocally love him are depicted as "edgy", or straight up evil.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  9. #129
    The best example of Anduin being a Merry Sue is everyone saying that Tyrande went crazy with revenge.

    Tyrande. Who is willing to give the Horde a chance if they prove themselves worthy. That she is following a peace treaty that she did not sign. The one who spares Sira's life even though she used to just kill Wardens. The one who listens to her councilors before making her decisions, even if they are councils that she does not like.

    Tyrande has never shown herself to be blind with revenge. But she opposes Adnuin so she has to be bad. No?

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I'm hearing this line very often ITT from the handful of Anduin lovers, but almost no one bothers to elaborate. The most I see is hE hAz fLaW tHeN nOt MaRY sUe LuL

    The whole point of Anduin's particular variant of Sue-dom is precisely that: a character made to be overly positive. Whatever flaws he may have are purely discursive (i.e. they don't carry any consequences at all, at least not for him) and as @Fleugen put it, his virtues are nowhere to be seen, other than being a handsome, blonde idealistic teen. Which is apparently enough to command the univocal admiration from almost every. Single. Major. Character - and the few who don't unequivocally love him are depicted as "edgy", or straight up evil.
    I like how it basically spells out Anduin to a T in that article too:

    Modern male Purity Sues are uncommon, but they're much more common in historic shows and texts. They tend to fall into four categories:

    Members of the clergy, especially during The Hays Code years. Before The Hays Code, clergymen were a prime target of satire.
    Police and judges, again especially during The Hays Code years.
    Knight in Shining Armor, long after the Age of Chivalry was over—assuming it ever really existed, which is a matter of some debate.
    Princes
    Anduin is:
    1) A priest
    2) Started as a prince, is now a very young king
    3) High King of the Alliance, thus decides the law
    4) A literal knight in shining armor come BfA
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2020-11-27 at 01:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharivor View Post
    Can you name an instance where an of these "mistakes" haven't ultimately been proven right in the end?



    Trusting Sylvanas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    The best example of Anduin being a Merry Sue is everyone saying that Tyrande went crazy with revenge.

    Tyrande. Who is willing to give the Horde a chance if they prove themselves worthy. That she is following a peace treaty that she did not sign. The one who spares Sira's life even though she used to just kill Wardens. The one who listens to her councilors before making her decisions, even if they are councils that she does not like.

    Tyrande has never shown herself to be blind with revenge. But she opposes Adnuin so she has to be bad. No?
    At what point did they say that though?
    Most i've heard is comments that she's likely to lose herself in revenge - which is hardly unfair given the nature of the night warrior ritual, and it's not exactly unheard of for very emotional people to be blinded by said emotions regardless of how good a reason they have for such emotions.

    Also i've seen no one consider her bad other than a few people on this forum that pretend she is so for melodramatic or comedic purposes.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Respect all, submit to none.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Trusting Sylvanas.
    Minor point here:

    That wasn't Anduin who trusted Sylvanas, that was Varian - Still alive and High King at the time. You'll note only people who disliked the warmongers in general disliked Varian for his Wrath/Cata appearance. Varian was a complex character with MANY flaws, prominently on display, and constantly working towards bettering them.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2020-11-27 at 05:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Minor point here:

    That wasn't Anduin who trusted Sylvanas, that was Varian
    Because of Anduin. I thought that was obvious by the fact he monologues the entire cinematic as a letter to Anduin talking about how much he's learned and changed because of Anduin, but apparently that wasn't clear enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    At what point did they say that though?
    Most i've heard is comments that she's likely to lose herself in revenge - which is hardly unfair given the nature of the night warrior ritual, and it's not exactly unheard of for very emotional people to be blinded by said emotions regardless of how good a reason they have for such emotions.

    Also i've seen no one consider her bad other than a few people on this forum that pretend she is so for melodramatic or comedic purposes.
    Well but the ritual still didn't show us anything about her being crazy either.


    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Trusting Sylvanas.
    They had not made it more than clear that all this happened because they had deceived the spies of the alliance?
    But if not. Does anyone even blame Anduin?

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Because of Anduin. I thought that was obvious by the fact he monologues the entire cinematic as a letter to Anduin talking about how much he's learned and changed because of Anduin, but apparently that wasn't clear enough.
    This is a retarded point. Sylvanas could have easily let Varian die in the Legion cinematic but instead ran in to help him. Ditto, her staying there would not have saved anyone. Even BTS that has as its main deal to throw her under the bus explicitly has Baine and Anduin, chief author's mouthpieces who the narrative never casts as doing anything wrong realizing this and going on about how it was the right thing to do. Trusting Sylvanas there was the correct call and BTS goes on and on to even show us how Sylvanas felt terribly bad about it in her own mind but it was the only option.

    Now everything in BTS re: Sylvanas's internal monologue is essentially non-canon given how it had fuck all to do with her goals in both BFA and her slightly different goals in Shadowlands, but the point is that when the scene was written, Anduin was meant to be correct about trusting her and even retroactively, the alternative is worse. It's not a case of him being flawed. Nothing Varian could've done in that situation re: Sylvanas would've saved him and no one ever calls Anduin on this anyway.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2020-11-27 at 07:08 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    Well but the ritual still didn't show us anything about her being crazy either.




    They had not made it more than clear that all this happened because they had deceived the spies of the alliance?
    But if not. Does anyone even blame Anduin?
    I do not mean lose herself as in crazy, i mean lose herself as in losing control over her power and potentially destroying herself or those close to her.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Respect all, submit to none.

  18. #138
    Stood in the Fire n7stormreaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Somewhere among the stars of Laniakea.
    Posts
    411
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuli View Post
    No. He is the best character fully created in WoW and his story and character are well written.
    You mean Garrosh?
    Space magic.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    I do not mean lose herself as in crazy, i mean lose herself as in losing control over her power and potentially destroying herself or those close to her.
    Before the destruction of her capital and a lot of her people and losing most of their territory and without being infused by elemental vengeance, Tyrande decided to kill the majority of the Watchers/Wardens to cut Illidan loose and attacked and killed both Horde and Alliance outposts freely.

    As the Night Warrior she said some mean words at a leadership meeting and then again to Thrall. When given a chance to kill not Wardens doing their jobs but a risen example that got turned into a psychopathic sadist, she refused to do it.

    One of these courses of action got her chewed out and treated as being insane by her allies, another has never been mentioned again. Three guesses as to which is which.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2020-11-27 at 07:16 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Before the destruction of her capital and a lot of her people and losing most of their territory and without being infused by elemental vengeance, Tyrande decided to kill the majority of the Watchers/Wardens to cut Illidan loose and attacked and killed both Horde and Alliance outposts freely.

    As the Night Warrior she said some mean words at a leadership meeting and then again to Thrall. When given a chance to kill not Wardens doing their jobs but a risen example that got turned into a psychopathic sadist, she refused to do it.

    One of these courses of action got her chewed out and treated as being insane by her allies, another has never been mentioned again. Three guesses as to which is which.
    You conveniently forget that during the former the alliance was not even around to have an opinion on the matter. And of course the trees did not object, though i do recall Malfurion being cross with her over that decision.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Respect all, submit to none.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •