To be honest, Anduin is the cancer of story.

[Soon-TM]

They could make a 3rd faction that alliance and horde members could join together and leave their main factions, that is the real way to do it.

My guess is that they are testing the waters with this otherwise terribly convoluted (and largely pointless) covenants system.

[Unholyground]

My guess is that they are testing the waters with this otherwise terribly convoluted (and largely pointless) covenants system.

I had the same thoughts as you lol.

[Sagenod]

I like how everyone says the same thing about different characters, based on the ones they hate.

"Sylvanas is a mary-sue!"
False. She is powerful because of strength bestowed upon ber by the Jailer.... And that's it. She still retains the same character flaws, only now they're magnified and perhaps her true nature has been revealed by the events of BFA. The Varok vs Sylvanas cinematic was the first time she's let her emotions get the best of her in how long? She was always angry, but it was mostly a slow boil, with only isolated incidents of her being snappy with her subordinates. What we saw from her at the gates of Orgrimmar was indicative of her instability, whether that was always there or grew within her, hopefully we'll find out more. Sylvanas is powerful, but unstable. She also lacks the ability to empathize with not just the living, but the undead too. She only cares for her own people, the Forsaken, in a pragmatic sense. By serving them, they serve her.

Powerful, but sociopathic and unstable. Not a mary-sue!


"Anduin is a gary-stu!"
False. I don't know about this DBZ power he has in Shadowlands, but I have a feeling OP was being hyperbolic. The Holy Light bestows its power upon those with faith and conviction in their ideals. It doesn't choose between good and evil as those are aspects of morality, created by mortals. The primal force of Light works through any who believe they are just in their endeavors and remain dedicated to their path. Anduin believes the Alliance and Horde can be at peace with one another. He believes that Azeroth can be at peace. He believes this so strongly it gives him great power in the Light. He has great conviction, but that very ideal is naive, is it not? Most humans of earth, as well as the denizens of Azeroth, will agree that peace is unattainable-- Or rather, peace cannot exist alongside freedom. I have a feeling we will see this issue highlighted in World of Warcraft soon. Accompanying his naivete in his ideals is also naivete in war and politics. His bleeding heart gets in the way of his tactical mind. The only reason he has made it this far is because of the PC, Shaw and Greymane.

Powerful in the Light, but inexperienced in war and naive in several ways. Not a gary-stu!

A mary-sue/gary-stu is a character who, with their own capabilities, can overcome every single challenge set before them with little or no help simply because they are epic. I'm not playing Shadowlands so I don't know exactly what's going on, but I doubt there are any mary-sue's/gary-stu's.

[geco]

A mary-sue/gary-stu is a character who, with their own capabilities, can overcome every single challenge set before them with little or no help simply because they are epic. I'm not playing Shadowlands so I don't know exactly what's going on, but I doubt there are any mary-sue's/gary-stu's.

Anduin is literally the leader of the Alliance just because he is. It's not even an achievement it just happens.

And he signs a peace treaty just because he has great diplomatic power. It is literally a:
"Tyrande: I will not make peace.
Anduin: If I sign it, you have to kick it.
Tyrande: Or if it makes sense let's stop the attacks. "

Not to mention that you have Pj like Varock who can't do anything until Anduin comes and you say "Come on varock you have to do what Voljin did without problem you do two patches and without any encouragement from anyone".

Anduin is a gary-stu but instead of in physical power in power of arguments and political power.

[TheRevenantHero]

I like how everyone says the same thing about different characters, based on the ones they hate.

"Sylvanas is a mary-sue!"
False. She is powerful because of strength bestowed upon ber by the Jailer.... And that's it. She still retains the same character flaws, only now they're magnified and perhaps her true nature has been revealed by the events of BFA. The Varok vs Sylvanas cinematic was the first time she's let her emotions get the best of her in how long? She was always angry, but it was mostly a slow boil, with only isolated incidents of her being snappy with her subordinates. What we saw from her at the gates of Orgrimmar was indicative of her instability, whether that was always there or grew within her, hopefully we'll find out more. Sylvanas is powerful, but unstable. She also lacks the ability to empathize with not just the living, but the undead too. She only cares for her own people, the Forsaken, in a pragmatic sense. By serving them, they serve her.

Powerful, but sociopathic and unstable. Not a mary-sue!


"Anduin is a gary-stu!"
False. I don't know about this DBZ power he has in Shadowlands, but I have a feeling OP was being hyperbolic. The Holy Light bestows its power upon those with faith and conviction in their ideals. It doesn't choose between good and evil as those are aspects of morality, created by mortals. The primal force of Light works through any who believe they are just in their endeavors and remain dedicated to their path. Anduin believes the Alliance and Horde can be at peace with one another. He believes that Azeroth can be at peace. He believes this so strongly it gives him great power in the Light. He has great conviction, but that very ideal is naive, is it not? Most humans of earth, as well as the denizens of Azeroth, will agree that peace is unattainable-- Or rather, peace cannot exist alongside freedom. I have a feeling we will see this issue highlighted in World of Warcraft soon. Accompanying his naivete in his ideals is also naivete in war and politics. His bleeding heart gets in the way of his tactical mind. The only reason he has made it this far is because of the PC, Shaw and Greymane.

Powerful in the Light, but inexperienced in war and naive in several ways. Not a gary-stu!

A mary-sue/gary-stu is a character who, with their own capabilities, can overcome every single challenge set before them with little or no help simply because they are epic. I'm not playing Shadowlands so I don't know exactly what's going on, but I doubt there are any mary-sue's/gary-stu's.

Anduin is a priest with the ability to wear plate and mass rez an entire battalion. He literally feels physical pain if he even considers doing something wrong. Of all the leaders captured, he's the one that is singled out and is somehow able to stave off all of the negative atmosphere of the Maw. No matter how bad a situation is, he ALWAYS gets out of it unscathed.

You clearly have no idea what a mary sue/gary stu is.

[Sagenod]

Anduin is a priest with the ability to wear plate and mass rez an entire battalion. He literally feels physical pain if he even considers doing something wrong. Of all the leaders captured, he's the one that is singled out and is somehow able to stave off all of the negative atmosphere of the Maw. No matter how bad a situation is, he ALWAYS gets out of it unscathed.

You clearly have no idea what a mary sue/gary stu is.

You clearly did not read the entire post.

[Maleific]

How is he a mary sue? first off men aren't called "Mary sue"

Sylvannas is a mary sue, she's made stronger out of no where to defeat whoever she needs to defeat. Anduin is in chains right now he's a prisoner, that's not a mary sue.

He literally held off a titan++ enemy for us to escape? Come on.

[TheRevenantHero]

You clearly did not read the entire post.

I read enough of it. You don't know what a mary sue or gary stu is. Anduin has power outside of ANYTHING other characters have had in the lore. At least Sylvanas has the dumb excuse of being powered by the Jailer. Anduin has no such excuse. He's just amazing just because. And the fact that he will literally experience pain if he even considers to do something immoral. There has been so many occasions where he should have died and didn't. And once again, resurrecting an ENTIRE BATTALION is something no lore character has done in the past with the Light.

Your reasonings for why he isn't a Gary Stu are utterly incorrect and shows you don't know what the trope is.

[Kaykay]

Anduin is just the power fantasy of paladin/holy classes. Same with Garrosh/Varian for warriors and sylvanas for hunters.

If no lore characters have rediculous powers like resurrecting a whole batallion, then it's even less believable when the player characters get the same ability. It's just an excuse to bring character power to the next DBZ Super Sayain 4 level, and the next expansion will take it to level 5. Titans, old gods, spaceships, interplanatary and time travel has paved the way for a rediculous story, far from the days of Orcs & Humans.

[Sondrelk]

Anduin is a priest with the ability to wear plate and mass rez an entire battalion. He literally feels physical pain if he even considers doing something wrong. Of all the leaders captured, he's the one that is singled out and is somehow able to stave off all of the negative atmosphere of the Maw. No matter how bad a situation is, he ALWAYS gets out of it unscathed.

You clearly have no idea what a mary sue/gary stu is.

Anduin is a priest that wears a sword and has custom armor, NPCs are not bound by the same limitations as players, no matter how stupid it sometimes gets.
Anduin feels pain when he considers doing something HE considers wrong because he still has slight PTSD over Garrosh almost killing him.
What about Anduin makes you think he staved off teh worst effects of the Maw? The only real difference shown between Anduin and the other faction leaders is that he did not meet us while fighting hordes of enemies or shaking off the effects of almost being killed.

Anduin is not written to the best of his potential, but that is a far cry from being a Mary Sue.

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He literally held off a titan++ enemy for us to escape? Come on.

He held off some low level enemies for a couple seconds. Once the Jailer attacked he fell immediately.

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I read enough of it. You don't know what a mary sue or gary stu is. Anduin has power outside of ANYTHING other characters have had in the lore. At least Sylvanas has the dumb excuse of being powered by the Jailer. Anduin has no such excuse. He's just amazing just because. And the fact that he will literally experience pain if he even considers to do something immoral. There has been so many occasions where he should have died and didn't. And once again, resurrecting an ENTIRE BATTALION is something no lore character has done in the past with the Light.

Your reasonings for why he isn't a Gary Stu are utterly incorrect and shows you don't know what the trope is.

Velen has done acts far more impressive than Anduin has. They might not be as visually stunning, but I feel it reasonable to rank Velen staving off attackers and incinerating demons idly more impressive than Anduin using a hail mary when desperate and healing his troops while the Horde obligingly stood by and watched.

[geco]

Anduin is just the power fantasy of paladin/holy classes. Same with Garrosh/Varian for warriors and sylvanas for hunters.

If no lore characters have rediculous powers like resurrecting a whole batallion, then it's even less believable when the player characters get the same ability. It's just an excuse to bring character power to the next DBZ Super Sayain 4 level, and the next expansion will take it to level 5. Titans, old gods, spaceships, interplanatary and time travel has paved the way for a rediculous story, far from the days of Orcs & Humans.

The problem is when that fantasy of power spoils the fantasy of power of others.

For example when the need to put Anduin as always correct and total leader. It doesn't let us really explore the effect of the burning of Teldrazzil on the Kaldorei.


To give an example. Because they think it bothers people so much when they vary, they teach Tyrande patiently that he spent 10,000 years waiting.

Varian is the power fantasy of the "warrior" and this well has to be a better extratega than Tyrande. But in patience Tyrande has to be better because part of what he represents is an immortal race.

[TheRevenantHero]

Anduin is a priest that wears a sword and has custom armor, NPCs are not bound by the same limitations as players, no matter how stupid it sometimes gets.
Anduin feels pain when he considers doing something HE considers wrong because he still has slight PTSD over Garrosh almost killing him.
What about Anduin makes you think he staved off teh worst effects of the Maw? The only real difference shown between Anduin and the other faction leaders is that he did not meet us while fighting hordes of enemies or shaking off the effects of almost being killed.

Anduin is not written to the best of his potential, but that is a far cry from being a Mary Sue.

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He held off some low level enemies for a couple seconds. Once the Jailer attacked he fell immediately.

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Velen has done acts far more impressive than Anduin has. They might not be as visually stunning, but I feel it reasonable to rank Velen staving off attackers and incinerating demons idly more impressive than Anduin using a hail mary when desperate and healing his troops while the Horde obligingly stood by and watched.

He didn't just heal his troops. He raised them from the dead. These were troops you see actively get killed in the cinematic. Velen, while powerful when it comes to killing demons, has never done anything like that. Anduin somehow survived the Divine Bell being dropped on him, something even Velen said should have killed him. He is such a Gary Stu, it's actually sickening now.

[TrueHorde]

You'll have a point when we have an expansion centered around how Anduin is the savior of the world, like how the Cataclysm was basically centered all around Thrall, with his marriage, his soul being taken by the elements, and then finally being ascended to "aspect of earth" and being rather pivotal in the fight against Deathwing by wielding the Dragon Soul artifact.

Thrall had never been involved in Alliance affairs.
There was no Alliance leaders around him and SERVE him.

Now every Horde leader is Anduin's bxxch,even THE GREAT THRALL. How ironic.

[Sagenod]

I read enough of it. You don't know what a mary sue or gary stu is. Anduin has power outside of ANYTHING other characters have had in the lore. At least Sylvanas has the dumb excuse of being powered by the Jailer. Anduin has no such excuse. He's just amazing just because. And the fact that he will literally experience pain if he even considers to do something immoral. There has been so many occasions where he should have died and didn't. And once again, resurrecting an ENTIRE BATTALION is something no lore character has done in the past with the Light.

Your reasonings for why he isn't a Gary Stu are utterly incorrect and shows you don't know what the trope is.

No I do, actually. A character without weakness, able to accomplish all tasks and overcome all obstacles set before them. You use combat examples as your only basis for this, which is misguided, friendo.

Furthermore, your post is rather unpleasant. Why don't you cut out the "you don't know what you're talking about" attitude and speak to me like I'm an adult? You come off as rude, which is funny considering you're wrong.

By the way, mass rez has been used since WC3. Paladins use it in that game. If Anduin, one of the most powerful Priests on Azeroth, should not be able to use it then who should?

In regards to your reply to another person, why does an example of a power being used by one character and not by another automatically define who's stronger? Velen purifies Fel corrupted ground on the Exodar with no effort whatsoever while levitating above you at incredible speed. His AU version created a massive Light barrier to protect Karabor from the Iron Horde's non-stop barrage of iron stars and shit. And iirc, it lasted until the Dark Star came and destroyed it.... A fallen Naaru, a Void God.

[Sondrelk]

He didn't just heal his troops. He raised them from the dead. These were troops you see actively get killed in the cinematic. Velen, while powerful when it comes to killing demons, has never done anything like that. Anduin somehow survived the Divine Bell being dropped on him, something even Velen said should have killed him. He is such a Gary Stu, it's actually sickening now.

While I will give the cinematic a bit of leeway with not showing acutal blood I still don't remember seeing any specifically dead soldier be ressurected. We saw a bunch of soldiers stand up, but for all we know they could have simply been knocked out, with the actually dead ones still laying down.

Anduin should have died, he survived because Azeroth ahas magical healers. Even then he spent the rest of the expansion recovering.


If he was a Gary Stu thenhe would have destroyed the Divine Bell without using the Mallet. He would have used the Light better than Naaru, or indeed Velen. Velen would be deferring to him for wisdom instead of the other way around.
Anduin is a far cry from being a Gary Stu. The closest he came was when the Alliance were given no reasons to seek peace with the Horde except Anduin saying so, and even then it felt more like Blizzard didnt want to tell that story rather than Blizzard genuinely intending Anduins word to be sacrosanct.

[omeomorfismo]

To give an example. Because they think it bothers people so much when they vary, they teach Tyrande patiently that he spent 10,000 years waiting.

Varian is the power fantasy of the "warrior" and this well has to be a better extratega than Tyrande. But in patience Tyrande has to be better because part of what he represents is an immortal race.

to be fair, nor tyrande nor the sentinels were depicted as patients. they saw orcs, they mass ambushed orcs. malfurion is mia, tyrande run and is instantly ambushed by the scourge. tyrande want free illidan, she instantly murder the wardens.

being an immortal race, living for more than 10000 years blatanty didnt teach anything, by design

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While I will give the cinematic a bit of leeway with not showing acutal blood I still don't remember seeing any specifically dead soldier be ressurected. We saw a bunch of soldiers stand up, but for all we know they could have simply been knocked out, with the actually dead ones still laying down.

there was a blue/interview where a dev expressly noted as mass ressurection what anduin did in the cinematic

[geco]

to be fair, nor tyrande nor the sentinels were depicted as patients. they saw orcs, they mass ambushed orcs. malfurion is mia, tyrande run and is instantly ambushed by the scourge. tyrande want free illidan, she instantly murder the wardens.

being an immortal race, living for more than 10000 years blatanty didnt teach anything, by design

You have a good point.
But my idea remains the same. When the fantasy of power of one group ruins that of another group. It is when that displeasure begins to generate towards the character.

[TheRevenantHero]

No I do, actually. A character without weakness, able to accomplish all tasks and overcome all obstacles set before them. You use combat examples as your only basis for this, which is misguided, friendo.

Furthermore, your post is rather unpleasant. Why don't you cut out the "you don't know what you're talking about" attitude and speak to me like I'm an adult? You come off as rude, which is funny considering you're wrong.

By the way, mass rez has been used since WC3. Paladins use it in that game. If Anduin, one of the most powerful Priests on Azeroth, should not be able to use it then who should?

In regards to your reply to another person, why does an example of a power being used by one character and not by another automatically define who's stronger? Velen purifies Fel corrupted ground on the Exodar with no effort whatsoever while levitating above you at incredible speed. His AU version created a massive Light barrier to protect Karabor from the Iron Horde's non-stop barrage of iron stars and shit. And iirc, it lasted until the Dark Star came and destroyed it.... A fallen Naaru, a Void God.

Paladins rezing people in WC3 is a game mechanic and not a lore mechanic. Just resurrecting ONE person in lore was a big deal but Anduin can do it to an entire battalion? Yeah no.

As for Velen's abilities, sure that's strong but it's not resurrecting a massive amount of people on a battlefield strong. And blocking attacks with a bubble is strong but not as strong as the resurrection of a battalion strong.

[Sagenod]

Paladins rezing people in WC3 is a game mechanic and not a lore mechanic. Just resurrecting ONE person in lore was a big deal but Anduin can do it to an entire battalion? Yeah no.

As for Velen's abilities, sure that's strong but it's not resurrecting a massive amount of people on a battlefield strong. And blocking attacks with a bubble is strong but not as strong as the resurrection of a battalion strong.

And who gave you the power to differentiate game mechanics from lore mechanics? Unless stated otherwise, the abilities used by characters in WC3 are canon. Jaina used mass teleport in a WC3 cinematic, so it's safe to say she can use that ability in canon. Therefore you can't say that Uther and other Silver Hand Paladins from the Third War can't use mass resurrect. You're trying to dictate canon in order to prove your point which holds no water.

[DeltrusDisc]

UGHHHH...Ishnu-alah, weary traveller ! (ﾐዋ ﻌ ዋﾐ)

<3

/10characters