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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarx View Post
    I push myself to play the game and level up but tge quests and leveling areas are boring with meaning less lore and uninspired. 3 days and I can't play more than 2 hours a day due to boredom.
    Perhaps you need a break then? I haven't been playing for 2 years, just got back and I'm having fun. Perhaps it would work for you as well.

  2. #62
    You forgot to include "The REAL reason" in your title of "thread where i am that guy complaining about people complaining too often even though near word for word this happens just as often".

    You sure showed them, you showed everybody! The one from the prophecy. The Big Man.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    I think the playerbase is the biggest problem honestly. Too many people with different strong opinions wanting different things which makes it impossible for Blizz to perfect every aspect of the game.
    I think you mistake cause and effect.

    I think that Blizzard attempts to cater a lot of different tastes, despite them sometimes being diametrically opposed to each other.
    However i don't think they're doing that based on Player feedback (because Blizzard is not that keen on listening to the playerbase), it rather stems from them no longer having a coherent vision for the game just throwing elements in there that may seem popular to some people.

    The issue that people want different things precisely stems from Blizzard only taking a halfassed step, i think a lot of that would disappear if the vision (and thus design) would be more clearer, because more people cannot expect X in a game that's clearly going in direction Y.

    A good example here is PvP balance, while always tricky, attempting to balance PvP around a small scale deathmatch mode is extremely difficult, yet Blizzard has decided that since TBC some pseudo E-Sport mode is the pinnacle of WoW PvP, of course those players that enjoy that sort of thing expect better balance, which get reinforced by Blizzard as they introduced a mode that caters towards them and the most prestigous PvP rewards come from that mode exclusively.
    Not to mention that Blizzard themselves host Tournaments on that front that attempt to appear very serious and professional.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-11-27 at 12:05 PM.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    Have you considered maybe it wasn't constructive in the first place?

    Or not in the right place?
    "No fly - no buy" - isn't constructive criticism.

    Writing big article, that explain, how approach to content is changed in terms of more casual-friendly gameplay with flying and why it's so necessary for me, that I can't play without it, and why it's so bad, when Blizzard try to compensate flying, even when they finally return it, that makes things even worse - is. Problem is - Blizzard ignore both.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I think you mistake cause and effect.

    I think that Blizzard attempts to cater a lot of different tastes, despite them sometimes being diametrically opposed to each other.
    However i don't think they're doing that based on Player feedback (because Blizzard is not that keen on listening to the playerbase), it rather stems from them no longer having a coherent vision for the game just throwing elements in there that may seem popular to some people.
    This is the second time you've said this in this thread and I'm genuinely curious: What is this "coherent vision" you're referring to here? This seems like such a completely abstract and nebulous concept that it could be used to describe pretty much anything Blizzard decides to do (or not to do).

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    Too many people whining on the forums/fansites instead of playing the game.
    Whine during travel


    You're a minority group. Your overly opinionated view of the game isn't actually shared by most of the people playing it.
    How do you know?

    It's okay to move on from a game if it no longer appeals to you, I promise.
    One thing being whined about isn't the game is no longer appealing
    My Collection
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -Kill myself

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    This seems like such a completely abstract and nebulous concept that it could be used to describe pretty much anything Blizzard decides to do (or not to do).
    Not Really.

    If you compare it so Classic WoW, the vision of the game was rather clear, so much in Classic was explicitly done to encourage social interactions between Players.
    Elite quests were the most basic examples, some mobs that require players to team up to take them down, caves were designed to be a massive pain if you're going solo to further encourage people to group up, rare recipes existed that a player that knew them stood out on their server, and so forth.
    The game wanted to you to group up / socialize with other players at almost every step of the way.

    Furthermore, Metzen said that they've intentionally did not focus on some overarching story, because they wanted the world as a whole and players stand out, rather than some figurehead characters.
    This whole of thing "walking around" was also intentionally, it was supposed to make the world feel bigger, that people travel around the world and explore it, rather than just teleport around.

    Generally speaking, if you look at Classic WoW, it was to some extent designed to be more like a game that attempts to simulate a fantasy world, rather than just be a purely gameplay driven game.

    Chris Kaleiki talked about this a bit in his video and directly said that even the current devs aren't so sure anymore if there is a clear vision for the game.

    In the modern game, you can already see this split.
    A lot of things were just removed for sake of convenience, quality of life or accessability, didn't matter if they made sense within the context of an RPG, Blizzard still removed them.

    The fact that the game nowadays must bend its knee that badly to solo players causes massive issues as every piece of content must be made somehow accessible to them.
    If you have players that outright refuse to engage in any type of multiplayer activity when it doesn't feature an automated queueing system (and yes, those players exist), well, then you can only design around it having an automated queuing system.
    Which obviously brings massive constraints in overall design and especially difficulty.

    There is a good reason why Warfronts are that heavily gated, because Blizzard doesn't want the better players rush ahead and bully the bad players for lagging behind, like it happened when LFD was more popular and even hardcore raiders had to use it for their daily heroic.

    Friend of mine once commented "I don't play WoW for doing solo activities, i play it to play with other people", yet those solo activities, at least in BfA, have been essential to staying on par with your character.

    This is also reflected in the variety of game modes within the game itself, between PvP, Raids and M+, it has become increasingly difficult to find a common ground, because all of them need to maintained at the same time.

    Now, you have this constant issue that people feel obliged to engage in the other mode in order to gain an advantage, Hardcore M+ pushers complain that they need to Mythic for their BiS set, Mythic raiders still need to bother with a weekly M+ until they have BiS gear, PvP'ers must go neckdeep into PvE until they have a modicum of gear level.
    In a world where a more clearer pecking order between these modes existed, you wouldn't have those issues, but because everything must somehow work for everybody, it causes problems.

    It's also where Blizzard sends really mixed signals with their MDI and Arena tournaments, on the one hand you have Ion saying "WoW is not an E-Sport", on the other hand you have Blizzard hosting Tournaments for those game modes and Blizzard also balancing their game around it to some extent, because they need to do that else those shows obviously become a huge clownfiesta.

    And as a final thing about M+, i think a time trial mode of repeating the same dungeon(s) over and over again at an artificially increased difficulty is something that not really that fits into an RPG, maybe ARPG, but not an RPG.

    This is also reflected in class design itself, where the issue described above really kicks in.
    It has been an issue since TBC that certain classes were OP in Arena (or PvE) but shit in the other mode, now this put the devs into the problematic position that they couldn't nerf the one aspect without the other.
    Just to give an example, back in Wotlk, Elemental struggled to stay competitive in PvE, but was borderline OP in PvP because Lava burst deleted people, Blizzard didn't want to buff them further as it would have made them even more overpowered in Arena.

    You have the same issue now with Resto Druid, they are the best healer in M+, but not great in raids, it's an issue that just cannot be magically resolved.

    To bring back the issue of solo players, i think that's the real reason why the concept of a "support class / spec" died, not because players didn't like it, but because a "support class" obviously sucks for solo players and causes massive issues in those small group modes such as Arena or M+.
    And quite frankly, the concept of a support class / class synergy makes sense to me in an RPG, i still love to this day the interaction that Warrior and Shaman used to have because Windfury Totem was like heroin to a Warrior.

    Back when the game focused more on larger group sizes at its core, it worked, because there was enough room for everybody, when you however have a group size of 3-5 people and 12 Classes, then you need to be damn careful not to give one class an amazing support tool, else it becomes "mandatory" and effectively deletes one slot.
    Shroud of Concealment is the posterboy here, a button nobody gave a shit about for years and was just some niche ability, with M+ it's now this massive thing you need to design an entire dungeon layout or Affixes around to prevent it from being too useful.

    All of these issues stem from the fact that Blizzard wants to cater to different tastes, treat them equally while also operating within one game, when a game that simply says "we don't balance around that mode" doesn't face the same constraints.

    I could go on, but i think that suffices for now, but as a final thing i'll say this: When you look at Classic, it's a game that is both MMO and RPG at the same time, for its good and bad aspects.
    In the modern game, both aspects have been heavily tarnished for the sake of catering towards a certain playertype.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-11-28 at 04:36 PM.

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