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[Darsithis]

I am currently running:

• i7-8700k 6-core
• Gigabyte Z370 HD3
• 16gb DDR4
• Nvidia GTX 980 (1gz core)

Water cooled and all that, all SSD

Thanks to the supply constraints, it's been hell picking out new components, but this is the plan:

• i9-10900k 10 core
• MSI MPG Z490 ATX
• 32gb DDR4 3600
• ASRock Radeon RX 5700 XT

Water cooled as well. Does that seem like a worthy upgrade from what I have for the cost? It's about $1500 all told (thanks, Covid and bitcoin!)...

[Thunderball]

I am currently running:

i9-8700k 4-core

Gotta be trolling. 8700K is an i7, and it's a 6core. It's still a very capable CPU.

[Darsithis]

Gotta be trolling. 8700K is an i7, and it's a 6core. It's still a very capable CPU.

You’re correct, it’s an i7, not an i9.

No need to be rude and accuse me (a former global mod) of trolling.

I don’t doubt my i7 is a capable CPU but it is years old and we’re looking to replace both of our machines (his is the i7 4790k, QUAD core I confused mine with). I’m just not sure it’s enough of an upgrade to make it worth the cost from what I have.

[Gamingsince1981]

Water coolers are a waste of money. You can get just as good cooling with a fan

[Kagthul]

You’re correct, it’s an i7,
I don’t doubt my i7 is a capable CPU but it is years old

Which doesn't make it bad, since Intel hasn't had a significant IPC increase in all that time. There will be one early next year - late Q1/early Q2 with Rocket Lake S, which actually uses a for-reals new core architecture (not the same ol' recycled Skylake cores) - Its basically Tiger Lake (10nm Laptop parts) being back-ported to 14nm. Early signs are showing a hefty increase in IPC (enough to put them EVER so slightly ahead of AMD again).

But, at identical clocks, an 8700K is just as fast as that 10-core i9. Unless you're doing something that uses all those cores and threads (I.E. "real" work, not gaming) its not going to perform better in games at all, if they can both hit the same clock speeds.

And this is also ignoring the fact that AMD has eaten Intel's lunch until Rocket Lake-S hits. Ryzen 5000 parts are handily ahead of Intel on IPC (10% on average, +/- depending on the exact tasks) and are... well, price equivalent for better performance (5600X vs 10600K, 5800X vs 10700K) or the same price for better performance (the 10900K costs the same as the 12-core 5900, IIRC).

and we’re looking to replace both of our machines (his is the i7 4790k, QUAD core I confused mine with).

Probably shoulda mentioned that.

I’m just not sure it’s enough of an upgrade to make it worth the cost from what I have.

For you, it isn't**. I'd ride that into next year with nothing more than a GPU upgrade. Look to maybe replace the core platform (CPU/MoBo, maybe RAM) at the end of next year with whatever is faster: Zen 4 or Rocket Lake-S.

As for your SO's rig, the 4790K is actually not awful. Even to this day. But unlike yours, there was a significant IPC jump between Devil's Canyon (what he has) and Skylake-based parts, so jumping to a modern CPU (10 series, or Zen 3/Ryzen 5000) right now WOULD see him an upgrade. And of course he'd be getting new, much faster DDR4 RAM (as Devil's Canyon is still on DDR3).

ALL of this is, of course, assuming you're just gaming.

If you're doing something that can use all the threads and cores you can throw at it, then upgrading to a higher core count CPU would see big performance upgrades just based on that alone. If you're not, and you're just gaming (and doing maybe light streaming - if you want to capital-S "Stream", more cores could be useful) and doing daily driving... more than 8 cores is a waste.

**So i cant really get any more specific until/unless we know what you're actually going to be DOING with these rigs.

- - - Updated - - -

Water coolers are a waste of money. You can get just as good cooling with a fan

This is not a universal truism, particularly when you get into 10+ core parts from -either- camp (but particularly Intel right now).

A good air cooler like a Dark Rock Pro 4, or a Noctua NH-D15 or similar will keep 8 core parts cool all day long, and do just as good or even better than a 120/140 or 240mm AIO.

It will even keep a 10-core (as long as you dont have to run too much voltage into it to maintain high clocks) well within safe temps. But itll probably run hotter than you'd like, so itll be a bit loud.

But once you get into a good 360 (or bigger, like a 480) AIO, an air cooler CANNOT keep up. Its literally physics. The larger radiator has more fin surface to radiate heat. That simple.

And if you're talking bespoke/custom water cooling, where you can have multiple rads in the loop, there's no way at all air can keep up.

And, AIOs also get that big hunk of metal out of the middle of your case, which some people prefer aesthetically, and/or many cases cant support massive air tower coolers (they are too tall) so an AIO makes more sense than going with a smaller (and less capable air cooler). Particularly if you're in a smaller mid tower or an mITX build, AIOs are often a way to get good cooling that will fit.

Particularly the aesthetic value - dont discount that. I appreciate to no end the performance of a DRP4 or D15. But i like a clean build, and i like to be able to see the details of my rig - not a giant fuck-off piece of metal. So ill use an AIO (240 or better in a larger case, by my personal rig has a 120mm and its just fine at keeping my 8600K @ 5ghz at 60c or so even under synthetic load) almost every time.

And while yes, a good big air tower can keep pace with an AIO that is sub-360mm in size.. its not like we're talking 30 degrees difference here. We're talking 4-5c, really, and still WELL below TJMax and shutdown. As long as its quiet... if it runs at 70c instead of 60c..... who cares.

[Darsithis]

Which doesn't make it bad, since Intel hasn't had a significant IPC increase in all that time. There will be one early next year - late Q1/early Q2 with Rocket Lake S, which actually uses a for-reals new core architecture (not the same ol' recycled Skylake cores) - Its basically Tiger Lake (10nm Laptop parts) being back-ported to 14nm. Early signs are showing a hefty increase in IPC (enough to put them EVER so slightly ahead of AMD again).

But, at identical clocks, an 8700K is just as fast as that 10-core i9. Unless you're doing something that uses all those cores and threads (I.E. "real" work, not gaming) its not going to perform better in games at all, if they can both hit the same clock speeds.

And this is also ignoring the fact that AMD has eaten Intel's lunch until Rocket Lake-S hits. Ryzen 5000 parts are handily ahead of Intel on IPC (10% on average, +/- depending on the exact tasks) and are... well, price equivalent for better performance (5600X vs 10600K, 5800X vs 10700K) or the same price for better performance (the 10900K costs the same as the 12-core 5900, IIRC).

For you, it isn't**. I'd ride that into next year with nothing more than a GPU upgrade. Look to maybe replace the core platform (CPU/MoBo, maybe RAM) at the end of next year with whatever is faster: Zen 4 or Rocket Lake-S.

As for your SO's rig, the 4790K is actually not awful. Even to this day. But unlike yours, there was a significant IPC jump between Devil's Canyon (what he has) and Skylake-based parts, so jumping to a modern CPU (10 series, or Zen 3/Ryzen 5000) right now WOULD see him an upgrade. And of course he'd be getting new, much faster DDR4 RAM (as Devil's Canyon is still on DDR3).

ALL of this is, of course, assuming you're just gaming.

If you're doing something that can use all the threads and cores you can throw at it, then upgrading to a higher core count CPU would see big performance upgrades just based on that alone. If you're not, and you're just gaming (and doing maybe light streaming - if you want to capital-S "Stream", more cores could be useful) and doing daily driving... more than 8 cores is a waste.

**So i cant really get any more specific until/unless we know what you're actually going to be DOING with these rigs.

Just gaming. Neither of us are streamers.

Sounds like, then, it's an upgrade for him from that 4790k I gave him all those years ago, but not really one for me.

So I'll stick with the GPU change, it should fit my board and existing case, and drop the board, memory (which is just DDR4 anyway, I think mine is 3400 and that's 3600, but it's not a huge change), and instead, he'll get the full "refit".

- - - Updated - - -

This is not a universal truism, particularly when you get into 10+ core parts from -either- camp (but particularly Intel right now).

A good air cooler like a Dark Rock Pro 4, or a Noctua NH-D15 or similar will keep 8 core parts cool all day long, and do just as good or even better than a 120/140 or 240mm AIO.

It will even keep a 10-core (as long as you dont have to run too much voltage into it to maintain high clocks) well within safe temps. But itll probably run hotter than you'd like, so itll be a bit loud.

But once you get into a good 360 (or bigger, like a 480) AIO, an air cooler CANNOT keep up. Its literally physics. The larger radiator has more fin surface to radiate heat. That simple.

And if you're talking bespoke/custom water cooling, where you can have multiple rads in the loop, there's no way at all air can keep up.

And, AIOs also get that big hunk of metal out of the middle of your case, which some people prefer aesthetically, and/or many cases cant support massive air tower coolers (they are too tall) so an AIO makes more sense than going with a smaller (and less capable air cooler). Particularly if you're in a smaller mid tower or an mITX build, AIOs are often a way to get good cooling that will fit.

Particularly the aesthetic value - dont discount that. I appreciate to no end the performance of a DRP4 or D15. But i like a clean build, and i like to be able to see the details of my rig - not a giant fuck-off piece of metal. So ill use an AIO (240 or better in a larger case, by my personal rig has a 120mm and its just fine at keeping my 8600K @ 5ghz at 60c or so even under synthetic load) almost every time.

And while yes, a good big air tower can keep pace with an AIO that is sub-360mm in size.. its not like we're talking 30 degrees difference here. We're talking 4-5c, really, and still WELL below TJMax and shutdown. As long as its quiet... if it runs at 70c instead of 60c..... who cares.

This is the water cooler I selected for both machines:

https://www.newegg.com/cooler-master...82E16835103297

(though now I've canceled mine and kept just the GPU).

The current cooler I have is another CoolerMaster, but it's only a single fan 120mm exhaust. Still keeps all SIX cores at about 50-60c under load.

[Orange Joe]

This is the water cooler I selected for both machines:

https://www.newegg.com/cooler-master...82E16835103297

(though now I've canceled mine and kept just the GPU).

The current cooler I have is another CoolerMaster, but it's only a single fan 120mm exhaust. Still keeps all SIX cores at about 50-60c under load.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's a little more in price but a very great cooler that does just as good as a aio if not better, and it's very quiet.