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  1. #61
    If they didn't have the renown and soul ash cap, we'd have literally the same problem as in Leigon and BfA where people grind their hearts out and burn themselves out quickly.
    It's like you guys have already forgotten about the past few years.

  2. #62
    Mechagnome Sagenod's Avatar
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    You may want to spend all of your time grinding stuff but that's not everyone else. Matter of fact, a lot of people have responsibilities and can't spend all their time playing World of Warcraft. Limiting the grindiness of the game makes it easier for those people to enjoy the game. Sorry friend, but your desire to be first at everything isn't quite as important as giving people with less time to play the ability to also progress.

    You're right about the mounts though, that shit doesn't make sense.
    Check out the Drakonaar, my playable race concept! (WIP -- Looking for artists)


  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    Then what's "good"?
    Obvious answer - replayable content.

  4. #64
    The Maw, in my view, is great. Makes little sense from a narrative standpoint but not to BfA levels. However, it is an hostile place and behaves like so.

    Do I get annoyed at druids and worgens? Yes.
    However I get more annoyed at the warmode bonus disparity, so there's that.

    All the other complains I can't really relate. But the Maw? Come on. It's challenging enough to remind me of EPL way back then.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    This does feel kind of odd to me. When I think mobile games, I think very grindy games that do not time-gate progress as much as they slow it down so you have to play lots of repetitive stuff, especially in the RPG realm.
    Most mobile games, even in the RPG realm, have some sort of "energy" system that prevents you from playing the game too much in a single given day but incentivizes logging on daily, with a timer dictating how much energy you have to complete tasks/actions. I think that's what they're getting at, especially with the conduit system, which is pretty much my only gripe about Shadowlands. Everything else is just fine imo.

  6. #66
    I think this "mobile game" meme needs to die.

    Why they did all the caps and limits? Because players asked for it. You finally get expansion without the endless AP, a lot of deterministic systems with vendors and where you can legitimately have a finish line per day/week and you still QQ?

    Sheesh...

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    in early to mid bfa the AP grind was real and yes by the end it was pointless because the system was essentially forgotten BUT we arent comparing BfA with catch up systems like auto 50 neck. We are comparing SL launch state and BfA launch state

    in bfa launch
    you could fall behind in rep easily
    you could fall behind in AP easily
    those would lead to falling behind in power

    we already know renown catch up is coming
    Again, falling behind... for 1.5% of your dps isn't really falling behind. And definitely not to mid BfA as for 8.1 I already stopped doing WQs and never did more than 3 islands per week.

    Not to mention I wasn't farming WQs in super early stages as well. You could safely say for first 2 months i just did emissaries and maybe some WQs that were close and rewarded AP or battle pet tokens.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroticaine View Post
    Most mobile games, even in the RPG realm, have some sort of "energy" system that prevents you from playing the game too much in a single given day but incentivizes logging on daily, with a timer dictating how much energy you have to complete tasks/actions. I think that's what they're getting at, especially with the conduit system, which is pretty much my only gripe about Shadowlands. Everything else is just fine imo.
    Sadly, that does not stop the grind in my experience. Just adds some more complexity because energy restore items are a thing.

    Though, honestly, the comparison is still kind of moot, imho. In those mobile games, usually the worthwhile things to do, if not all gameplay is gated behind those energy systems. You run out of it, you literally cannot play anymore. In this case though it's....afk missions and conduit swapping. I mean, I get that in principle it's a kind of energy and stuff but it just doesn't hold up imho. There are much more impactful 'energy' like systems if one thinks about it - after all, what else are lockouts, really, but daily/weekly energy you spend on a chance at loot? - which makes those things seem almost miniscule in comparison, really.

    And besides, imho there are some upsides to it too. The WoW community has proven time and time again that 'it is possible to grind this endlessly' easily becomes 'it is necessary to grind this endlessly'. I can totally see people setting their phone timers to wake up again exactly when one mission ends to queue the next one if it wasn't for the healing cool down. And I can see people hearthing back to their sanctum between bosses to swap conduits if it is casually possible. Heck, they probably do it already even with the CD. Though honestly, those should just be swappable like talents to begin with.

  9. #69
    I agree with 2,6 and 7. The anima grind is so bad, esp when you get so little and you need it for upgrades and missions just why. the Maw is the worst thing without a mount, esp when like you said druids/worgern can mount.
    Member: Shadow Lands Alpha Club, Member since 4/9/2020

  10. #70
    Working as intended.

    If there was no capped grind, people would grind until they were blue then complain when they don't have a reason to log tomorrow.

    People complain about being able to fly already, so looks like Blizz did us a solid and let us walk some. Fun stuff.

  11. #71
    I'd rather grind dynamic content I enjoy with other people (arenas, M+) than a hamster wheel of "player power" because it makes me feel "powerful" ... in a videogame

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    As somebody that plays casually (5 hours a week at most), I would quit if they removed caps. We casuals would fall behind into oblivion, never to be seen again.
    I'm not understanding why they can't just accelerate people who have fallen behind.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    The caps are there because Legion and BfA proved without a shadow of a doubt that the players are their own worst enemy and many will feel "forced" to do trivial shit that gives 1% damage boost in their easy Heroic raids or +10 keys if there's no cap.

    Fully agree on letting us mount in the Maw. The Eyes of the Jailer mechanic already makes the place dangerous to linger in, there's no need to also make travel stupidly slow while inside it, that's just boring as fuck.
    pretty much this,shadowlands is a much welcomed shift,players have proven that we literaly need to be protected from ourselves

    if the caps upset you,than raid lockouts must also upset you i asume

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    Some of my friends want me to come back and play wow again and stuff like this really makes shadowlands look crappy.
    wait,why come back?did you leave in legion or bfa?but those expansions had extreme constant power level grinds,isnt that what you prefered?

    personaly im very glad its all gone,caps make the game feel less like a job and more like an actual game....that i would play because i enjoy it

    i wonder,do you think raid lockouts are crappy?and why or why not?

  14. #74
    I want to be able to play the game at a mythic competitive level while at the same time having a job and a family. With your suggestions, I would have to play 16h a day every day of the week from release until the end of time. So no thanks.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    1) agree
    2) agree
    3) this was done so people wouldn't burn themselves out doing 8 runs of one wing and then 5 more runs of the other 5 wings. i think this is a short lived necessary evil so torghast stays fun.
    4) agree
    5) renown is basically a new kind of rep and rep has been rather gated even way back to vanilla.
    6) its been 4 days, i've gotten three of the 4 level one sanctum upgrades, and i've only been max level for 2 of those days. it doesn't take that long. though i do expect the tier 3 upgrades to be a long ways out.
    7) ya, blizz really screwed up on making the maw compelling. i'd compare it to almost dark souls difficulty (it isn't that hard to me but one mistake can cause a death) with mostly no rewards.
    People die in the maw O_o, I can mass pull in there with little worry about dying, this dying thing must be something non Pally tank characters have to deal with XD
    Last edited by Addiena; 2020-12-02 at 10:28 AM.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    wait,why come back?did you leave in legion or bfa?but those expansions had extreme constant power level grinds,isnt that what you prefered?

    personaly im very glad its all gone,caps make the game feel less like a job and more like an actual game....that i would play because i enjoy it

    i wonder,do you think raid lockouts are crappy?and why or why not?
    I stopped playing half way into legion. Hated the AP grind and titanforging crap.

  17. #77
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Then don't renew and play other games. When and if you return, you'll have more to do.
    ...for example he can then make threads complaining how everyone is too far ahead, unlocked stuff and he now needs an "unreasonable" time to catch up

  18. #78
    Just wait until they start selling "gems" that you can use to reset/speed up these timers, it WILL come, no question in the world about that!

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Why they did all the caps and limits? Because players asked for it. You finally get expansion without the endless AP, a lot of deterministic systems with vendors and where you can legitimately have a finish line per day/week and you still QQ?
    I feel like a broken record for pointing this out, but people may prefer different things.

    That aside, grinding is not inheritely a turnoff for me, but the way Blizzard has been doing it in Legion / BfA was utterly unappealing.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    So much stuff at level 60 is timed in some way and IMO it holds the experience back greatly.

    The things I am talking about are...

    1) Swapping Talents in your Forge Bonds costs gems and each one recharges on a 10 hour timer.
    2) Healing your companions at the command table costs a high amount of anima or a super long recharge time (over a day).
    3) Torghast stages behind locked to a unknown week amount. Right now you can only do the first 3 stages and its unknow when the rest will come out.
    4) Weekly cap on Soul Ash needs to go. If I want to grind it until I'm blue in the face let me.
    5) Weekly renown cap needs to also be removed, Once again if I want to grind it let me.
    6) The amount of anima you get doing WQ's is soo small and makes doing things like the listed above and Sanctum Upgrades extremely long to do.
    7) The maw not allowing mounts so it takes longer to do stuff in it.

    The leveling experience in Shadowlands IMO was smooth. But all of gates and caps screams mobile gameplay and funny enough some of it can be played on their app. I legit have nothing to do the rest of the week unless I level a alt because of all of the caps and super slow grinds. Everything feels like its in place to make you play longer and not have fun.

    All of this stuff is honestly pushing me away from SL and making me want to play it less. Sucks because there is also a decent amount here I really enjoy. I have loved the leveling and the dungeons.

    That is just my 2cents tho, do you Agree? Disagree? or somewhere in between.
    I mean I think the first thing that's obvious is that you have no idea what a mobile game is, and are using the term to mean "anything I dislike", and the second thing that's obvious is that you have no idea why restrictions exist, and are just mindlessly railing against them, whilst continuing to accept ones that it would be "unacceptable" to reject. Why not ask for M0 and later raid lockout restrictions to be removed? It's essentially the same thing you're demanding be changed.

    Plus you're moaning before raiding and so on even opens up, so your "legit I have nothing to do" is essentially a lie or massive hyperbole.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawon View Post
    Just wait until they start selling "gems" that you can use to reset/speed up these timers, it WILL come, no question in the world about that!
    I mean, it definitely won't come. The fact that you think it will is pretty sad, but that's not something that's going to happen within the lifetime of WoW. WoW will go on to maintenance mode long before anything like that is considered, and in maintenance mode will likely be preserved in a certain state because that's more likely to keep subscribers and so on.
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

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