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  1. #81
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    It's a result of player behaviour during Legion and BfA.

    I'll start to feel outraged when they start charging an extra fee to unlock faster. Actually, at that point I'd just quit. Fuck Mobile games.
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurkan View Post
    If they didn't have the renown and soul ash cap, we'd have literally the same problem as in Leigon and BfA where people grind their hearts out and burn themselves out quickly.
    It's like you guys have already forgotten about the past few years.
    Yeah the exact same poster would be posting "OMG I am burned out on this game, why did Blizz make me run Torghast until I had 8000 soul ash? Blizz sux." or similar - or even better "I have 8000 soul ash now Torghast is worthless content I will skip and I hate it forever because Blizz made me grind it so hard!".
    "A youtuber said so."

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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    I mean, it definitely won't come. The fact that you think it will is pretty sad, but that's not something that's going to happen within the lifetime of WoW. WoW will go on to maintenance mode long before anything like that is considered, and in maintenance mode will likely be preserved in a certain state because that's more likely to keep subscribers and so on.
    Oh, my sweet summer child. You underestimate the power of monetary income and how corporations work! Anyway, I hope you are correct but most likely they will jump on the same macro-transaction train as every-freaking-else does that wanna make the big bucks nowadays.

  4. #84
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    You are probably also the same person that will make a forum thread about 'having nothing todo' and 'being forced to grind'.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawon View Post
    Oh, my sweet summer child. You underestimate the power of monetary income and how corporations work! Anyway, I hope you are correct but most likely they will jump on the same macro-transaction train as every-freaking-else does that wanna make the big bucks nowadays.
    Well that is what the go to Blizztard fanboy defence will be - "Dur companies do things to make money, get with it" like we are the ones being naive.

  6. #86
    But look at the graphs, it says more people are engaged.

    Also acording to my Numbers, people will love the introduction of premium gems that speed up the timers.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by MrFawlty View Post
    Well that is what the go to Blizztard fanboy defence will be - "Dur companies do things to make money, get with it" like we are the ones being naive.
    I really dislike this fanboy shit left and right, but yeah, people will claim they do it for money and company survival and tell you what... they might be onto something!

    That said, I would probably drop the game the same second they introduce something like that! :/

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    I stopped playing half way into legion. Hated the AP grind and titanforging crap.
    then i dont understand why you dislike sl for doing the oposite

  9. #89
    I like stuff being time gated like they are now. Gives me a sense of completion. Otherwise I'd just get burned out. Oh and I don't like mobile games and this feels nothing like a mobile game aspect.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawon View Post
    Oh, my sweet summer child. You underestimate the power of monetary income and how corporations work! Anyway, I hope you are correct but most likely they will jump on the same macro-transaction train as every-freaking-else does that wanna make the big bucks nowadays.
    I'm 42 mate. You're probably younger than me. I've been playing games since I was 8. I work in a large corporate environment that's quite profit-conscious. I know a hell of a lot more about this than you, I daresay.

    It's genuinely clueless to suggest all online games will move to the unusual model of service you're suggesting, and it's not at all supported by the evidence. It's not a model that really any big Western MMORPG, nor FFXIV uses. Including the F2P ones. It's a model that's incredibly rare in MMORPGs generally, even if you include aggressive Korean and Chinese ones, which often have horrific MTX stuff, but still don't typically use the "pay to do reset-limited content sooner" model you're describing. The only games I can think of which commonly do are actual mobile games.

    It is possible that if revenues decline (rather than staying level or going up, which has been the overall trend for the last couple of expansions), then we may see a period where a lot more MTX comes in, and I could even seem some unlocks eventually being optionally-paid (Allied Race-style content, for example), though Blizzard have done the opposite to that so far (making it so paying to boost a character makes them ineligible to the level-based Heritage armour, for example). But paying to make weeklies reset sooner or the like? No. That's not a model WoW is going to use, not even if it's gone F2P and added a ton more MTXes. Plus, at the current rate, we're a very long time away from WoW going F2P or the like (certainly in any conventional fashion). I personally expected WoW to be popular for about 5-6 years, tops, when it launched (I say that as someone who played since NA open beta), because that was how long MMORPGs lasted. It's been 16, and WoW isn't really showing signs of slowing down, nor have "superior" MMOs come along. Alternative approaches to MMOs, like Destiny, have been relatively successful, but haven't supplanted WoW either. The only thing that's like to shove WoW into a maintenance-type mode will be much of the PC gaming public switching to VR or a similar transformative technology, but VR has also failed to take off (every year is the year VR is going to go big, and it has been for much of a decade), and no other transformative tech has really come in yet.
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  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    lore perspective this makes complete sense
    It doesnt, if that where the case DK should be allowed to use their mounts

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    I'm 42 mate. You're probably younger than me. I've been playing games since I was 8. I work in a large corporate environment that's quite profit-conscious. I know a hell of a lot more about this than you, I daresay.

    It's genuinely clueless to suggest all online games will move to the unusual model of service you're suggesting, and it's not at all supported by the evidence. It's not a model that really any big Western MMORPG, nor FFXIV uses. Including the F2P ones. It's a model that's incredibly rare in MMORPGs generally, even if you include aggressive Korean and Chinese ones, which often have horrific MTX stuff, but still don't typically use the "pay to do reset-limited content sooner" model you're describing. The only games I can think of which commonly do are actual mobile games.

    It is possible that if revenues decline (rather than staying level or going up, which has been the overall trend for the last couple of expansions), then we may see a period where a lot more MTX comes in, and I could even seem some unlocks eventually being optionally-paid (Allied Race-style content, for example), though Blizzard have done the opposite to that so far (making it so paying to boost a character makes them ineligible to the level-based Heritage armour, for example). But paying to make weeklies reset sooner or the like? No. That's not a model WoW is going to use, not even if it's gone F2P and added a ton more MTXes. Plus, at the current rate, we're a very long time away from WoW going F2P or the like (certainly in any conventional fashion). I personally expected WoW to be popular for about 5-6 years, tops, when it launched (I say that as someone who played since NA open beta), because that was how long MMORPGs lasted. It's been 16, and WoW isn't really showing signs of slowing down, nor have "superior" MMOs come along. Alternative approaches to MMOs, like Destiny, have been relatively successful, but haven't supplanted WoW either. The only thing that's like to shove WoW into a maintenance-type mode will be much of the PC gaming public switching to VR or a similar transformative technology, but VR has also failed to take off (every year is the year VR is going to go big, and it has been for much of a decade), and no other transformative tech has really come in yet.
    Yeah I'm 44 and I work as a B2B Project Manager in an IT company, driven by subscription and one-time-buy transaction models. I got my first computer (ABC80 sometime in 1983-84 I believe), played WoW since launch.... now, What the heck does that have to do with anything?!

    I never said "all online games will move to this price model" we are discussing, stop making up assumptions to justify your counter argument. You cant just make up some shit, pretend someone said it and then continue to argue against it... well grats, you are just arguing about something you and only you said!

    What I said is that I believe strongly WOW will head this way if they put more and more focus on the time-gated stuff, I firmly believe that if you have a game that is basing more and more game modes around a "wait X hours to continue" and similar limitations, then it's a massive opportunity to add these very annoying price models that allow you to bypass time buy spending real money. You can agree or not agree, that's totally up to you but dont come dragging your fallos in the sand, trying to sound old, wise and important with false accusations!

    I've already started to see lots of PC games that are adapting this price model, Star Citizen comes to mind which actually let you buy powerful ships for cash, but there are loads with only cosmetic stuff as well. Where do you think those games are headed when they opened up Pandora's Box where you can pay for cosmetic/skins? It's not IF, it's just a matter of WHEN these games will start selling proper items. Still not saying EVERY game will go that direction (a statement you made up, which your whole reply is based on) but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Blizzard will eventually allow you to bypass some "wait for champion to become ready for next Mission Table quest" by simply fork up some cash.

    I give you one thing tho, Blizzard never pushed hard for micro-transactions being a p2w so far, but you also have to realize that it's not Blizzard we're talking about anymore when calling the financial shots, it's Activision... and if it's something Activision is, it's insanely money oriented and profit focused.

    Now, I have 2 kids that need to head to bed so I will tip my hat and leave. There isn't anything to this "discussion" anyway as it's not something to discuss but just 2 completely different views on where Activision is headed with our beloved game. And with that said, I hope YOU are right and not me.
    Last edited by Dawon; 2020-12-02 at 06:39 PM.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawon View Post
    What I said is that I believe strongly WOW will head this way if they put more and more focus on the time-gated stuff, I firmly believe that if you have a game that is basing more and more game modes around a "wait X hours to continue" and similar limitations, then it's a massive opportunity to add these very annoying price models that allow you to bypass time buy spending real money. You can agree or not agree, that's totally up to you but dont come dragging your fallos in the sand, trying to sound old, wise and important with false accusations!
    It's a senseless and irrational belief, and I suspect you can't name a single Western MMO, no matter how F2P and naaaaaaaasty on the MTXes which does it. I can't even, off-hand, think of an Korean or Chinese MMOs, even ones entirely powered by aggressive F2P, which let you do something like that. They may be out there, but I can't think of them - and apparently neither can you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawon View Post
    I've already started to see lots of PC games that are adapting this price model, Star Citizen comes to mind which actually let you buy powerful ships for cash, but there are loads with only cosmetic stuff as well. Where do you think those games are headed when they opened up Pandora's Box where you can pay for cosmetic/skins? It's not IF, it's just a matter of WHEN these games will start selling proper items. Still not saying EVERY game will go that direction (a statement you made up, which your whole reply is based on) but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Blizzard will eventually allow you to bypass some "wait for champion to become ready for next Mission Table quest" by simply fork up some cash.
    What?

    Star Citizen's model is horrific, but that's not the same model. That's not letting you reset content faster like mobile games do with extra lives/tries and so on. SC's model is just outright P2W cheating - it'd be like if you could pay to have an L60 character in ilvl 300+ gear (no typo), with maxed reputations, maxed renown, already unlocked transmog, and able to use Legendaries in every slot at once - and that's only equal to the lesser ships you can pay for in SC.

    And no, it is "if", not "when". Your assumptions are just that - senseless, evidence-free assumptions. You literally are saying every game will, because you're saying "It's not IF, it's just a matter of WHEN these games will start selling proper items". You're contradicting yourself in a single paragraph. If not all games will, then it's if not, when. Sorry, but that's a simple fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawon View Post
    I give you one thing tho, Blizzard never pushed hard for micro-transactions being a p2w so far, but you also have to realize that it's not Blizzard we're talking about anymore when calling the financial shots, it's Activision... and if it's something Activision is, it's insanely money oriented and profit focused.
    You mean the Activision who have been less bad, not more bad, on MTX in the last couple of years? That Activision? Because that's not really helping your argument. Also, the bolded bit is proving my point re: how clueless you are about this stuff. Yeah, they are money-oriented and profit-focused. They're not complete morons, however. What companies have realized in the last few years of MTX and so on is that different games need different models. If you'd been saying all this in like 2015, it would be a lot more plausible. Back then, most companies seemed to be pushing towards the same F2P GaaS model which featured huge amounts of MTX and even pushes towards direct P2W. That's changed, though. All the major publishers, except possibly Take-Two Interactive (Rockstar's owners), have diversified and nuanced their models. Not every online game is trying to be F2P. Nor GaaS (in the more extreme sense). Nor are all going heavy with MTXes. And very few are going with P2W stuff. Activision are profit-oriented. So have Blizzard always been. They didn't make WoW by accident. They made WoW because it would make a lot of money - in fact in was even more successful than they hoped, but it was very much a money-making enterprise. They saw how much EQ was making, and thought they could make a similar amount. In fact they made many times that. But the point remains, you suggested a peculiar and specific MTX model used almost exclusively by F2P mobile games - that of paying real money to retry/re-do stuff sooner. And that's what I'm saying is ridiculous. It doesn't make sense as an approach to monetizing an MMORPG in the long-term.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawon View Post
    Now, I have 2 kids that need to head to bed so I will tip my hat and leave. There isn't anything to this "discussion" anyway as it's not something to discuss but just 2 completely different views on where Activision is headed with our beloved game. And with that said, I hope YOU are right and not me.
    Ok, have a good night I guess, but I think you should maybe think a bit harder about this kind of claim. WoW will probably get more MTXes over the years. Some will probably even be obnoxious. But one that lets you re-do in-game stuff sooner? I think it's extremely unlikely. Again, in 2015, I wouldn't have been as skeptical, because there was much more convergence towards a single F2P model back then.
    Last edited by Eurhetemec; 2020-12-02 at 08:48 PM.
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  14. #94
    Fluffy Kitten Malefic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    So much stuff at level 60 is timed in some way and IMO it holds the experience back greatly.

    The things I am talking about are...

    1) Swapping Talents in your Forge Bonds costs gems and each one recharges on a 10 hour timer.
    2) Healing your companions at the command table costs a high amount of anima or a super long recharge time (over a day).
    3) Torghast stages behind locked to a unknown week amount. Right now you can only do the first 3 stages and its unknow when the rest will come out.
    4) Weekly cap on Soul Ash needs to go. If I want to grind it until I'm blue in the face let me.
    5) Weekly renown cap needs to also be removed, Once again if I want to grind it let me.
    6) The amount of anima you get doing WQ's is soo small and makes doing things like the listed above and Sanctum Upgrades extremely long to do.
    7) The maw not allowing mounts so it takes longer to do stuff in it.

    The leveling experience in Shadowlands IMO was smooth. But all of gates and caps screams mobile gameplay and funny enough some of it can be played on their app. I legit have nothing to do the rest of the week unless I level a alt because of all of the caps and super slow grinds. Everything feels like its in place to make you play longer and not have fun.

    All of this stuff is honestly pushing me away from SL and making me want to play it less. Sucks because there is also a decent amount here I really enjoy. I have loved the leveling and the dungeons.

    That is just my 2cents tho, do you Agree? Disagree? or somewhere in between.
    1. Agree
    2. Not really a problem, Anima is a resource you get significant amounts of
    3. Layer 6 heroic raid week, Layer 8 mythic raid week
    4. Disagree, promotes unhealthy gameplay with people spam farming Soul Ash.
    5. Disagree
    6. Irrelevant, Anima isn't the bottleneck, souls are.
    7. You can mount in there in Mythic raid week if you do Layer 8 Twisting Corridors.

  15. #95
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
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    If you don't raid, pvp or push keystones, then I'd suggest unsubbing until the final tier or close to. This is what WoW does now, they gate content. I don't overly mind it because I'm leveling alts between grinding m0, so I have ample amounts of content to do. If you want to play for the story, then the answer is to wait until there's less gated content. That way you can binge through weeks of gated content without having to wait week to week.
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  16. #96
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    They want an option to do it, or not to do it, but for that grind to not be required.
    None of these grinds have ever been required. When there is no cap, some players will push extra hard to get that tiny power increase. It really doesn't add as much power as they seem to think.
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  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by MrKnubbles View Post
    None of these grinds have ever been required. When there is no cap, some players will push extra hard to get that tiny power increase. It really doesn't add as much power as they seem to think.
    Never required if you only want to complete heroic*

    Gotta add that to your paragraph.

  18. #98
    Bloodsail Admiral Not A Cat's Avatar
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    I think Legion and BFA showed that the playerbase can't be trusted with endless grinds because suddenly they become "required." Then people grind endlessly, get burned out and complain about how horrific the grind is.

    I personally like the caps because I can invest time in my alts without feeling like I'm falling behind on my main.
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  19. #99
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Never required if you only want to complete heroic*

    Gotta add that to your paragraph.
    You think only Mythic raiders grind this stuff out? They will probably put it in the most effort but complain the least because they know that if you want to get stronger, you've got to put in the work.
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  20. #100
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    People are so darn miserable... Especially when it comes to video games. Why do so many gamers act like entitled brats? Unbelievable.

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