Can we have a discussion about Torghast rewards / incentives?

[Glorious Leader]

there would be massively less people raiding.

Of course and the developers are well aware of this fact. I would love it if they went off the rails even for just a patch and said nope no gear froms raid enjoy the "content " for the sake of content. All the people who are blase or even enthused about the poor reward engineering from the rest of the game would shut up real quick i think.

[Donald Hellscream]

I might be odd, but I like doing challenging stuff for the sake of being challenged.

Granted the current cap of layer 3 aint all that challenging but still.

[Qnubi]

Every game is meaningless and pointless, hell, EVERYTHING in life is meaningless and pointless because it only takes a few centuries and you are forgotten. How often do you remind yourself of your 200 year old ancestor? zero. times.

[glowpipe]

Torghast should have gear up to a certain ilvl. maybe like 1 tier below what you max cleared on your main. Torghast is seriously hard compared to other content. so why can i faceroll mythic dungeons for 184 items, and not have a harder/challenging and exceptionally more fun time in torghast for gear instead ?

Make the gear you get capped by daily or weekly and make the drop chances be good enough to make torghast a way to gear instead of or alongside dungeons, but not replace it.

I would gear every alt in torghast. Now the only thing i can do to gear alts is half ways afkin through faceroll content like heroic or mythic dungeons or eventualy raids. And guess what, thats not gonna happen, cause its incredibly boring

[msdos]

I'd rather spend my time in BGs now because it's the best combo of fun and power gain, it offers the best efficiency for me. Dungeons take longer to get into and complete than BGs, also getting to 155 outside of BGs is painful and/or RNGish. Bonus: don't need to learn dungeon mechanics, can wait til my guild is geared and learn them later.

I wanted to approach this xpac differently and the pvp vendors are finally allowing it.

[oblakoff]

People like the OP is why we can't have infinite floors :/

[blankfaced]

Torghast should have gear up to a certain ilvl. maybe like 1 tier below what you max cleared on your main. Torghast is seriously hard compared to other content. so why can i faceroll mythic dungeons for 184 items, and not have a harder/challenging and exceptionally more fun time in torghast for gear instead ?

Make the gear you get capped by daily or weekly and make the drop chances be good enough to make torghast a way to gear instead of or alongside dungeons, but not replace it.

I would gear every alt in torghast. Now the only thing i can do to gear alts is half ways afkin through faceroll content like heroic or mythic dungeons or eventualy raids. And guess what, thats not gonna happen, cause its incredibly boring

You could always pay attention during the content you're doing to gear up. Instead of asking for an even easier form of content to reward gear. Then again, you saying you afk through dungeons explains why you think Torghast is "seriously hard".....your addons, tank and healer aren't there to hold your hand? Torghast isn't even slightly hard.

Pets/mogs/mounts are fine, no reason for it to be ruined by adding gear as a reward as well.

This is true for basically the whole expansion btw. I was already talking about this in the Beta, but people will see the real problem only in a few weeks, when they did their weekly run and are not touching Torghast anymore because the "its something new!" feeling has faded.

No incentives = no content. Nobody would have played the mage tower if it wasn't for unique rewards with limited availability.

Didn't they explicitly state that Torghast and the Maw weren't things you'd be doing every day or all the time? It fills exactly the role it should. Something you do a twice a week for the the two halls that spawn and later the unending halls will give you a third one to do if you want.

I think the problem is it's actually fun so people want a greater incentive to do it not understanding that if they added enough to it people would chain run it and burn out on it in the first few week. This way you're incentivized to do it sporadically and enjoy each time you go, there's not even a time limit when inside incentivizing taking your time on it even more.

I get it, like I said I'd love for it to have a bit more cosmetic rewards, especially after how much was thrown at us with island expeditions. But look what happened to everyone when those rewarded a bunch of cosmetics. People ran them furiously and got burned out within weeks/months when it was supposed to be something that kept us entertained for the entire expansion. I think they might've learned something from expeditions and the mage tower and torghast is a nice fusion of the two.

[Accendor]

I mean.. did they just forget to finish this part and are hoping to add to it later? Other than the maw mount at layer 8 (necessity), a toy, and a title. There is legitimately nothing to get in this tower. What is the incentive other than doing it for Soul ash? How can you sell a prominent feature of this expansion, and have no transmog rewards, no normal mounts, no gear, no cosmetic glyphs, A SINGLE PET, and call it a day? So basically like actually nothing? im totally confused who was in charge of this shamble of a reward system

This is true for basically the whole expansion btw. I was already talking about this in the Beta, but people will see the real problem only in a few weeks, when they did their weekly run and are not touching Torghast anymore because the "its something new!" feeling has faded.

No incentives = no content. Nobody would have played the mage tower if it wasn't for unique rewards with limited availability.

[Dervrak]

My problem with Torghast so far (which I'm guessing will change when the higher levels open) is that it's so easy it's boring. My Warlock main can sleep walk through it, especially if I quickly get a couple stacks of the buff that increases your demons damage and health by 25% each. During one run I got 2 stacks of the health and damage buff to demons and 2 of the one that adds 1 to the number of infernals you summon. So every major room full of enemies or boss battle came down to send in void lord, drop three overpowered infernals into the room in a single cast, maybe drop a rain of fire so I felt like I did something meaningful, then go take a nap while they wipe out everything.

[blankfaced]

Too fun? That needs an elaborate explaination.. Because I didn't find any fun in it..

- - - Updated - - -

The abilities fuck up the game... Those are the main reason it's not fun.... And oh, it's even more borrowed powers... Short term borrowed... And no one likes borrowed powers..

It reminds me a lot of old games like Castle of the Winds. I had so many runs in that game where I got so far but then literally couldn't go anywhere because i teleported into a room with no doors and had nothing else to use to get out of it.

But the abilities are contained in their own little ecosystem and have no affect on the rest of the game. That to me is what makes them fun, because they can do ridiculous crap with our abilities and have it not do any damage to the rest of the game. And then they can potentially use some of those abilities as templates later for talents/set bonuses/trinkets. How neat would it be to see a trinket in a later expansion that let resto druids keep their Heart of the Wild permanently in the questing areas?

And yeah, don't fret on the memories. I've had four drop, none for my spec, but if i need to i can focus run the dungeon where one drops. And the nice thing is unlike the soulbinds you only need to get it once, no ilvl ranks to go after.

[XDurionX]

The "all content must have a significant reward' notion has likely done as much damage to the game as anything. Why? Design some junk content and put a decent reward on it.

Since I've stopped raiding the only thing I care about in the game is doing stuff I enjoy. Playing the game because you enjoy playing the game seems reasonable. It certainly beats hate-playing the game to squeeze every last drop of efficiency out of it.

Wanted to say the same thing. If you can't motivate yourself to play the game without any rewards, why play at all? It's not a job.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Finishing the layers, seeing how far you can get should also be a reward on its own. Also there is plenty of stuff to get from Torghast. Ash, followers, memories, a pet, herbs, gold, achievements, progression, a questline.

Sure they could add a few things, maybe a achievement that gives a supercool mount. That would be nice. But calling it "a shamble of a reward system" is just completely hyperbolic. Especially with a title called "the patient".

Yeah, I got a follower and it was the greatest feeling ever. The rewards are scarce, but immense.

[Frolk]

I mean.. did they just forget to finish this part and are hoping to add to it later? Other than the maw mount at layer 8 (necessity), a toy, and a title. There is legitimately nothing to get in this tower. What is the incentive other than doing it for Soul ash? How can you sell a prominent feature of this expansion, and have no transmog rewards, no normal mounts, no gear, no cosmetic glyphs, A SINGLE PET, and call it a day? So basically like actually nothing? im totally confused who was in charge of this shamble of a reward system

Stuff dosnt give INSTANT BIG REWARD, WTF BLIZZ WHY DO WE EVEN BOTHER????
And when stuff give big reward, WTF BLIZZ, WHY SO MUCH MANDATORY CONTENT????


SPOILER, Torghast rewards you legendaries if u done the damn quest line, but i think u havnt done the questline even.

[MoanaLisa]

...So yes, I dont find that appealing nor is it for me, and I hope for other peoples sake they dont just hate the game while playing it to hope they enjoy it, they need to realize like I did, if its not for you, it isnt for you, walk away, nothing lost.

People need to be honest with themselves about why they're playing.

I play mostly solo stuff but I'm lucky enough to have a couple of friends who still play, there's a senior's group from FB (55 and over) that are very welcoming and best of all, two people in my extended family play. So if I want to be social I can do that.

I certainly don't enjoy all of the content provided. I have just assumed that that's in the nature of a themepark design. You like some things; you don't like other things. Value is a judgment you make. I do the stuff I enjoy. I avoid the stuff that I don't like although having some actual friends along (not strangers) makes me amenable to trying nearly anything.

It's a mystery to me why I see so many people here especially that no longer play or haven't played in years that still feel like they have much of anything relevant to say, never mind the people that are hate-playing the game. It's just weird but we're all wired differently. I get it that sunk cost in the game, sunk cost and investment in characters is a driver to keep going but again, if you're being honest with yourself, if you're not enjoying the game as it is now, take a break, quit entirely, whatever. There are tons of people who only show up for an expansion drop, level, play a few dungeons and unsubscribe for two years. If that works for them, cool.

[AlmightyGerkin]

Too fun? That needs an elaborate explaination.. Because I didn't find any fun in it..

- - - Updated - - -

The abilities fuck up the game... Those are the main reason it's not fun.... And oh, it's even more borrowed powers... Short term borrowed... And no one likes borrowed powers..

How does it fuck up the game when their bound to a scenario? Your assumption is illogical. They don't impact gaming outside of torghast at all.

[willtron]

there would be massively less people raiding.

Agreed, but saying no one would is objectively wrong.

[glowpipe]

You could always pay attention during the content you're doing to gear up. Instead of asking for an even easier form of content to reward gear. Then again, you saying you afk through dungeons explains why you think Torghast is "seriously hard".....your addons, tank and healer aren't there to hold your hand? Torghast isn't even slightly hard.

Pets/mogs/mounts are fine, no reason for it to be ruined by adding gear as a reward as well.

i didn't say it was hard, i said it was harder compared to other content, and you don't even know what role i play. Our m+ group did all the mythic 0's in a day, starting in sub heroic gear. The content is faceroll, don't even try to say it isnt. Layer 8 of torghast gonna be miles harder then mythic 0 ever was. yet we get handed shitload of gear from it, but nothing from torghast

[TEHPALLYTANK]

See in principle I agree but this principle is NEVER applied across the board. Do you think a game where literally every reward was prestige or cosmetic would be successful? I tend to doubt it to be honest.

I think Fortnite: Battle Royale is a pretty obvious example of a game that is very successful despite the only rewards being prestige and cosmetic (afaik, I'm not aware of any permanent power progression systems in Fortnite: Battle Royale).

[GothamCity]

My only question is: does torghast ever get difficult?
If not, then there's no fun in simply playing it for the sake of it, meaning it would need more rewards to even be played.

The first 3 layers are meant to be introductory and completable in basic leveling gear. I did the first three layers in one wing right away. It was a little tough at the third layer and I died a few times (feral druid). I got really bad anima luck though, just kept getting junk for entangling roots which I can't even use really in cat form.

Then I waited until I was fully heroic geared and cleared all 8 mythics. At ilvl 180 I basically walked through the third layer of the second wing and didn't even bother to do most of the mechanics, just stealth rushed the end.

Naturally has a lot to do with your gear and class. Torghast isn't very forgiving to squishy classes without CC. Many pulls are packs. Warlocks/Hunters will likely have an easy time of it as they do in most world content, some of the only classes to easily solo open world elites while leveling. Tanks would also likely have an easy time but be slower. Mages, Priests, and Ret paladins from my guild have all been having issues without much better gear.

[Mysterymask]

See in principle I agree but this principle is NEVER applied across the board. Do you think a game where literally every reward was prestige or cosmetic would be successful? I tend to doubt it to be honest.

..i mean most games your reward is the ending so....