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  1. #1

    Question Draka, Vashj, Uther, Mograine; why do they look like themselves, and others not?

    Hey all,

    Title explains most of it I guess. Why do some characters retain their "mortal" visage but most characters look like the local flavor?
    If it is a choice (both Mograine and Vashj elude to that), then why don't more npc's choose that route?
    If it is not choice, then what is it?

    Has anyone encountered a decent explanation? It feels shallow, that only our heroes would have the strength to stay in the same shape.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Inzeen001 View Post
    Hey all,

    Title explains most of it I guess. Why do some characters retain their "mortal" visage but most characters look like the local flavor?
    If it is a choice (both Mograine and Vashj elude to that), then why don't more npc's choose that route?
    If it is not choice, then what is it?

    Has anyone encountered a decent explanation? It feels shallow, that only our heroes would have the strength to stay in the same shape.
    Perhaps it depends on whether the observer knew them.
    Perhaps if, say, some lightforged draenei who lorewise never met them saw them, then they'd appear as generic varieties of inhabitants?

    Just floating ideas here.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Respect all, submit to none.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Perhaps it depends on whether the observer knew them.
    Perhaps if, say, some lightforged draenei who lorewise never met them saw them, then they'd appear as generic varieties of inhabitants?

    Just floating ideas here.
    Tezan appears as a wolf so that rules that one out but i do wish it were the case.

    I think it's a matter of time, as souls stay there longer they lose their individuality as they move on from their mortal lives.

  4. #4
    They explain it themselves when you talk to them in the Seat of the Primus and choose the "Stay While And Listen" option. They have the option to pick their form, they chose to keep it for one reason or another. It's a good in-universe reasoning, but obviously out of game reasoning is that they just wanted them to be recognizable by the players.

    Mograine: Baroness, your original night elf form was restored in the afterlife, was it not? Why abandon it for one akin to the naga?
    Vashj: When I was kaldorei, I was but a handmaiden to my queen. Prized for my beauty, and little else. As a naga, I was recognized and rewarded for my cunning and resolve.
    Vashj: But I could ask the same question for you. Why adopt the form of a feeble human, when so many stronger ones exist?
    Mograine: This is the form I had when purging countless undead on Azeroth. But I suppose your point stands.
    Some other smaller but known characters that have been discovered in Maldraxxus, both don't look like their former selves - Amber Kearnen changed from a Human to an Aranakk and Cookie looks like some sort of a monstoristy aswell. And while Revendreth does operate on a different set of rules than Maldraxxus, Zul'jin and Lantresor of the Blade both still retain their original form even though they are meant to look like random spirits at this point just like Houdmaster Loksey does in the early quests.
    Last edited by Adoxe; 2020-11-28 at 08:44 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Inoculate View Post
    Tezan appears as a wolf so that rules that one out but i do wish it were the case.

    I think it's a matter of time, as souls stay there longer they lose their individuality as they move on from their mortal lives.
    If that were so, wouldnt the first fight in Maldraxxus be with a lot of different races? I took from that fight that most non-elite souls were the latest arivals

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoxe View Post
    They explain it themselves when you talk to them in the Seat of the Primus and choose the "Stay While And Listen" option.

    Mograine: Baroness, your original night elf form was restored in the afterlife, was it not? Why abandon it for one akin to the naga?
    Vashj: When I was kaldorei, I was but a handmaiden to my queen. Prized for my beauty, and little else. As a naga, I was recognized and rewarded for my cunning and resolve.
    Vashj: But I could ask the same question for you. Why adopt the form of a feeble human, when so many stronger ones exist?
    Mograine: This is the form I had when purging countless undead on Azeroth. But I suppose your point stands.
    Yes, that was what I meant. But that means only the souls we happen to know (or know of, in Mograine's case) are wistfull enough to retain their own form. No heroes from planet Quibleix are that headstrong? No Tauren soul happens to feel more like a Tauren than like a human skelleton? Seems highly unlikely to me

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Inzeen001 View Post
    If that were so, wouldnt the first fight in Maldraxxus be with a lot of different races? I took from that fight that most non-elite souls were the latest arivals
    I would wager they are just feeble, yet maldraxxus material, souls. Newer arrivals would be all in the Maw.

  7. #7
    what I want to know is: if the shadowlands are the afterlife for all life in the cosmos why is there such an over-representation of Azerothian heroes.

    Makes no fekin sense

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Inzeen001 View Post
    If that were so, wouldnt the first fight in Maldraxxus be with a lot of different races? I took from that fight that most non-elite souls were the latest arivals

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes, that was what I meant. But that means only the souls we happen to know (or know of, in Mograine's case) are wistfull enough to retain their own form. No heroes from planet Quibleix are that headstrong? No Tauren soul happens to feel more like a Tauren than like a human skelleton? Seems highly unlikely to me
    Outside of Amber Kearnen and Cookie, all known characters still resemble themselves, yeah. Even Uther still looks like Uther just blue with wings. Warbrave Oro is chilling in Bastion as a spirit, but he might've just not gone through the ascension process yet and since he's nothing but an easter egg, unlikely we'll ever find out what happens to him in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    what I want to know is: if the shadowlands are the afterlife for all life in the cosmos why is there such an over-representation of Azerothian heroes.

    Makes no fekin sense
    If you do an expansion based on the afterlife, you're not gonna miss out on the opportunity to reconnect with some of the characters that have been gone for a while. It might not make sense from the in-universe perspective, but from the players perspective I think most people would rather see our favorites again than random characters we have no prior connections with. I think the mix of the two that we currently have is nice.

  9. #9
    Because it's easier to make sympathy with the characters you know yourself.

    There's no lore reason behind it.

    They would have less of an impact if they had different models.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Inzeen001 View Post
    Hey all,

    Title explains most of it I guess. Why do some characters retain their "mortal" visage but most characters look like the local flavor?
    If it is a choice (both Mograine and Vashj elude to that), then why don't more npc's choose that route?
    If it is not choice, then what is it?

    Has anyone encountered a decent explanation? It feels shallow, that only our heroes would have the strength to stay in the same shape.
    So it's kinda explained through dialogue with Vashj(Although she could have chosen to use her night elf form in the afterlife, she chose to stay a naga because it was in that form that she was recognized and rewarded for her cunning and resolve). When you move into the specific afterlife you can keep your body or change it to one of your choosing(obviously with limits involved with that specific afterlife). It's the same with Pelagos, who had chosen to have a male body in Bastion despite having a female body in life. "I had a female form in life. I don't recall my former name, or even my race, but I...never felt like my physical form represented who I was inside."
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  11. #11
    My understanding was that they gave other shadowlands dwellers generic models because it was impossible to make each and every mob unique. In a perfect world, every Kyrian would look like a smurfizied version of hismself, but it was impossible to put so much attention to models of random NPCs, not to mention they would have to come up with a lot of crazy models considering shadowlands connect all planets and realities...

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Uzkin's Avatar
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    If a soul dies in Shadowlands, it dies permanently. Therefore, SL is only a momentary "extra life" between life and True Death of an individual. Azerothian heroes are typically far more powerful than the other lifeforms in the universe and, therefore, can survive in SL longer than most: that's why they appear to be over-represented in SL. Indeed, these OP Azerothians are quite often the ones who send the other unfortunate denizens of SL to their final oblivion.

  13. #13
    i suppose Blizz did not intended for players to look so deeply into the explanation.
    "you get to choose to retain your original form or take on a new one"
    so why only the big 3 of Maldraxxus do it?
    "uhhh....so you remember who they were for story line purposes"

  14. #14
    Because they are major characters.

    That's it. It's as simple as that.

    A major character will have a unique model/design that makes them stand out. Storytelling uses these visual cues to indicate that someone is important.

    It's the same reason why Alleria is the only elf with braids, Jaina is the only human with braids, Azshara is the only naga with octopus tendrils, etc.

  15. #15
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Because they are the zones prominent main cast and they need to stand out and be recognizable.

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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    what I want to know is: if the shadowlands are the afterlife for all life in the cosmos why is there such an over-representation of Azerothian heroes.

    Makes no fekin sense
    Azeroth produces the best and most powerful heroes


    When you first see Uther doesn't on of the Kyrain say "you must of recognised him because he's from his homeworld"

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Inzeen001 View Post
    Hey all,

    Title explains most of it I guess. Why do some characters retain their "mortal" visage but most characters look like the local flavor?
    If it is a choice (both Mograine and Vashj elude to that), then why don't more npc's choose that route?
    If it is not choice, then what is it?

    Has anyone encountered a decent explanation? It feels shallow, that only our heroes would have the strength to stay in the same shape.
    See, some of us have always wanted to be disgusting spider mutants The real answer is reusing assets. Of course they might cover they asses with "they choose to look like that" but we know it's just convenience.

  18. #18
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Each of the four Covenant realms seem to have it's own rules as concerns the process that happens to a soul on arrival.

    • Bastion: Newly arrived souls look like ethereal echoes of what they looked like in life. As they undergo the Kyrian's purification process they lose their memories of their old lives and slowly become more general "spirit" like forms without recognizable until they become an Aspirant. Becoming an Aspirant gives you a standard Kyrian form, a blue humanoid form of your choice in terms of outward appearance. Ascension gives you wings and going up in the ranks from there all seems to be about ornamentation and size.
    • Maldraxxus: Newly arrived souls have the forms they had in life, with all the physicality you'd fine in the physical universe. Maldraxxus' system of hierarchy then grants new forms depending one's deeds and performance in their endless skirmishes and mock-battles, either having their original form degrade over time if they perform poorly or being given new and stronger vessels. This is entirely an optional thing, as some beings stick with their original forms out of sentiment, opting only to improve their armor and armaments. Placement in one of the Houses of the Necrolords somewhat shapes this path, as each House has its own unique forms you can take on.
    • Ardenweald: Newly arrived souls become spirit-animals of their choosing.
    • Revendreth: Newly arrived souls are shackled and imprisoned by their Venthyr overseers, castigated and tortured for their anima in a supposed process of rehabilitation and reformation. Loss of anima over time leads to lose of form, and older souls in Revendreth appear as more featureless or generic spirit models.

    Draka opted to keep the form she had in life, as did Mograine. Vashj was originally returned to her Night Elven form but her work in the House of Eyes gave her the chance to update her vessel, and she opted to return to her Naga form, albeit with a suitably Maldraxxan inspiration (hence the skeletal tail). Uther's whole bit in Bastion was about his inability to let go of the burdens of his life, and he was made an Aspirant/Ascended under the banner of the Forsworn, who are all about taking a different path than the Kyrian. That he kept his more or less original form makes sense under those conditions, as he was still holding on to who he was in life.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  19. #19
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adoxe View Post
    They explain it themselves when you talk to them in the Seat of the Primus and choose the "Stay While And Listen" option. They have the option to pick their form, they chose to keep it for one reason or another. It's a good in-universe reasoning, but obviously out of game reasoning is that they just wanted them to be recognizable by the players.



    Some other smaller but known characters that have been discovered in Maldraxxus, both don't look like their former selves - Amber Kearnen changed from a Human to an Aranakk and Cookie looks like some sort of a monstoristy aswell. And while Revendreth does operate on a different set of rules than Maldraxxus, Zul'jin and Lantresor of the Blade both still retain their original form even though they are meant to look like random spirits at this point just like Houdmaster Loksey does in the early quests.
    Dang! They really made sure they covered their bases and included a lot of small characters, even Loksey? I had to look that one up, that's awesome!
    "For Teldrassil."
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    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  20. #20
    Warchief Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Ardenweald: Newly arrived souls become spirit-animals of their choosing.
    I wonder if you could take the form of a humanoid race like an elf or troll if you requested it?
    I see dead people.... Yes, kinda my ting, ya know

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