Shadowlands -- Castle Nathria World First [Megathread]

[Gorsameth]

Former player and WFR scene follower here.

Could anybody give me an ELI5 on why WF raiders go for duplicate classes this time? I failed at googling on this.

A character has a limited number of possible high ilvl drops and you can't brute force more through Titanforging like you could previously.

So you take 3 of the same character through M0 now, and the raid net week and then whichever of those 3 has the best gear, got the most lucky, you take into the Mythic raid.

[Eapoe]

Former player and WFR scene follower here.

Could anybody give me an ELI5 on why WF raiders go for duplicate classes this time? I failed at googling on this.

Covenant and ability nerfs/buffs that they are expecting to happen. With how covenants work, you do not retain progress swapping from one to the other. So, WF players don’t want to power the shit out of Night Fae, for instance, just to have it get nerfed when mythic is released and overtaken by something else. Then that player is behind and not min/max when they swap to the better covenant.
With how easy it is to level and caps on weekly progression it’s not hard to maintain alts in SL.

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A character has a limited number of possible high ilvl drops and you can't brute force more through Titanforging like you could previously.

So you take 3 of the same character through M0 now, and the raid net week and then whichever of those 3 has the best gear, got the most lucky, you take into the Mythic raid.

This also applies, but this reason has existed for a while now.

[Gorsameth]

This also applies, but this reason has existed for a while now.

You could previously brute force it through grinding and Titanforge procs. That is why world first raiders did so many M+ runs. To 'reliably' get high Ilvl loot.

That is no longer possible.

[Eapoe]

You could previously brute force it through grinding and Titanforge procs. That is why world first raiders did so many M+ runs. To 'reliably' get high Ilvl loot.

That is no longer possible.

Yeah. I mainly just meant I was including your post with mine as to why people have so many duplicates this time around. My main reason was the covenant issue and balancing that will inevitably be happening.

Personally, I’m not looking forward to a huge net to NF on my Hunter and having to start over with something else.
Pretty much the reason people were going “pull the ripcord” about not being able to swap more freely and without penalty.

[Gorsameth]

Yeah. I mainly just meant I was including your post with mine as to why people have so many duplicates this time around. My main reason was the covenant issue and balancing that will inevitably be happening.

Personally, I’m not looking forward to a huge net to NF on my Hunter and having to start over with something else.
Pretty much the reason people were going “pull the ripcord” about not being able to swap more freely and without penalty.

what are you losing when you switch tho?
Yes your progress is reset, but renown catchup is already in, just doing dungeons will catch you up to everyone else.
So the only loss is in anima and upgrades, and there only 1 gives any sort of player power and that is the adventure table which is the cheapest to upgrade. You then need to level them so your going to miss out on 1? mission for 100 Soul Ash?

I don't know how the Soul Ash income falls, that those 100 you miss are the difference between a legendary upgrade one week or the next, but that is the only actual power loss scenario from switching covenants.

(speaking strictly from a WF raiding perspective here, obv you lose a bunch of progress on cosmetics for those who care)

[Eapoe]

what are you losing when you switch tho?
Yes your progress is reset, but renown catchup is already in, just doing dungeons will catch you up to everyone else.
So the only loss is in anima and upgrades, and there only 1 gives any sort of player power and that is the adventure table which is the cheapest to upgrade. You then need to level them so your going to miss out on 1? mission for 100 Soul Ash?

I don't know how the Soul Ash income falls, that those 100 you miss are the difference between a legendary upgrade one week or the next, but that is the only actual power loss scenario from switching covenants.

Time. That’s what you lose. I’m not a fan of upgrading the Covenant hall for NF and have all my anima drain away and lose my upgrades.
Preflight loss of the transportation network also hurts a bit and has you travel more again.
Also, I’m not stating that you’re suddenly a million times weaker, but it’s not fun to lose something in any scenario. So again, I state that it would have been nice had Blizzard changed this.
Plus, for people that enjoy the story, some of the upgrades tie into the campaign story. So if you suddenly lose all of that then that also feels bad. There’s even a worst case scenario where you swap at some big point in the campaign story where if you don’t complete it and that is somehow tied into unlocking new legendaries or Conduit powers then that is going to feel even worse to try and power thru to catch up. Isn’t Renown also tied to some of the upgrades and campaign progressing the story?

So, TLDR version, it feels bad to lose things you’ve invested time in. There’s also a possibility that you are stuck in place while doing catch up mechanics as you can possibly only earn up to the Renown you previously earned, missing out on even more power and perks.

[Gorsameth]

Time. That’s what you lose. I’m not a fan of upgrading the Covenant hall for NF and have all my anima drain away and lose my upgrades.
Preflight loss of the transportation network also hurts a bit and has you travel more again.
Also, I’m not stating that you’re suddenly a million times weaker, but it’s not fun to lose something in any scenario. So again, I state that it would have been nice had Blizzard changed this.
Plus, for people that enjoy the story, some of the upgrades tie into the campaign story. So if you suddenly lose all of that then that also feels bad. There’s even a worst case scenario where you swap at some big point in the campaign story where if you don’t complete it and that is somehow tied into unlocking new legendaries or Conduit powers then that is going to feel even worse to try and power thru to catch up. Isn’t Renown also tied to some of the upgrades and campaign progressing the story?

So, TLDR version, it feels bad to lose things you’ve invested time in. There’s also a possibility that you are stuck in place while doing catch up mechanics as you can possibly only earn up to the Renown you previously earned, missing out on even more power and perks.

that is a concern for you and me, but we're talking about the WF raiders who level 3+ characters of the same class.

[sensei-]

that is a concern for you and me, but we're talking about the WF raiders who level 3+ characters of the same class.

That’s right. WF raiders don’t give a crap about covenant tuning. Swapping covenants is easy and no real player power that makes a difference to raiding is lost. Why they level multiples is because of random item (and possibly memory) drops.

[Woobels]

Fwiw I don't think Limit currently "forces" people to have multiple alts, a lot of players just do it anyways. Or at least I think I heard that on multiple streams, and that it might change if the amount of benefit increases.

[Tyk]

Former player and WFR scene follower here.

Could anybody give me an ELI5 on why WF raiders go for duplicate classes this time? I failed at googling on this.

Thanks for the replies, appreciate them.

Hopefully we get a close race. Looking forward to see how Echo will turn out to be and fare against Limit.

[korijenkins]

I've seen mostly warm reception for their rebuild. Some people will choose to be outraged no matter what, but hate only makes your own life harder.

Accepting an apology and moving on is not allowed by most people today.

They hold grudges forever even if they weren't directly affected by whatever happened.

[blackbird1205]

I really like the bosses and mechanics they designed for the raid. I just hope they tune it proberly according to it to make them impactful, especially denathrius( I fear the opposite might be the case since it's an opening raid tier). I think as far as I saw the raid, I like it more than nearly every bfa raid.

[Makabreska]

Accepting an apology and moving on is not allowed by most people today.

They hold grudges forever even if they weren't directly affected by whatever happened.

I mean, it depends also on sincerity. All the Method higher ups knew about Josh and the other guy, they just kept it under wraps, because he is a good player and the other dude was a co-owner. They went full apology only when shit hit the fan.

[TomatoBisque]

Method didn't even own up to their complicity in knowing about and protecting Josh. Why should they be forgiven when they are pretending there is nothing to be forgiven for?

[Relapses]

Method didn't even own up to their complicity in knowing about and protecting Josh. Why should they be forgiven when they are pretending there is nothing to be forgiven for?

MethodSco released a pretty self-damning statement on the situation. What more do you want from the dude? He lost an organization he spent his entire adult life building. People will never look at him or his organization the same way again. Would you like him to be drawn and quartered for the unspeakably heinous crime of believing one of his raiders was telling the truth?

[Makabreska]

MethodSco released a pretty self-damning statement on the situation. What more do you want from the dude? He lost an organization he spent his entire adult life building. People will never look at him or his organization the same way again. Would you like him to be drawn and quartered for the unspeakably heinous crime of believing one of his raiders was telling the truth?

Well, he "lost" that org with his own help. Accusations regarding Josh were known for years, dude was shady and Sco and other higher ups still kept him around? Also that statement was released only after shit hit the fan, and all deniability was lost. There was little sympathy for the org after that. At best Sco was incompetent, at worst he was complicit. Also I believe jack shit all of those who left the org immediately, claiming they "didn't know".

[Relapses]

Well, he "lost" that org with his own help. Accusations regarding Josh were known for years, dude was shady and Sco and other higher ups never checked all of it? Also that statement was released only after shit hit the fan, and all deniability was lodt.

Hindsight's 20/20. Bottom line is that WF raiders of Josh's caliber don't exactly grow on trees and Method was willing to turn a blind eye to a problematic situation because of this. Excusable? Not really. But Sco already lost literally fucking everything and yet there are people on the internet who think that this wasn't enough. It's time to move on.

[Toybox]

Hindsight's 20/20. Bottom line is that WF raiders of Josh's caliber don't exactly grow on trees and Method was willing to turn a blind eye to a problematic situation because of this. Excusable? Not really. But Sco already lost literally fucking everything and yet there are people on the internet who think that this wasn't enough. It's time to move on.

Couldn't have said it better myself. There's some cool players in the new Method roster, so it'll be interesting to see how they manage. While I don't give them a chance at top 3, they should definitely be hitting the single digits with the amount of time they'll be playing.

Probably Limit's to lose.

[Makabreska]

Couldn't have said it better myself. There's some cool players in the new Method roster, so it'll be interesting to see how they manage. While I don't give them a chance at top 3, they should definitely be hitting the single digits with the amount of time they'll be playing.

Probably Limit's to lose.

They will need like 1-2 tiers for a warm-up.

[ClassicPeon]

I want to see it cleared before EU raid opens.. that 14 hour head start RIGHT kakakaka

We all know its the only chance the US have of winning :P