View Poll Results: Who are you rooting for to claim Race to World First: Sire Denathrius

Voters
344. You may not vote on this poll
  • Method [EU]

    23 6.69%
  • Limit [US]

    198 57.56%
  • Echo [EU]

    74 21.51%
  • Pieces [EU]

    9 2.62%
  • BIG DUMB GUILD [US]

    7 2.03%
  • Exorsus [EU(RU)]

    3 0.87%
  • Aversion [EU]

    2 0.58%
  • Lazarus Imperative [US]

    1 0.29%
  • FatSharkYes [EU]

    3 0.87%
  • Club Camel [US]

    4 1.16%
  • The Cleveland Browns/Other/No One!!

    20 5.81%
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  1. #1001
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Limit did the exact same thing lol..
    They did, though I guess it counts more for a final boss vs a boss early in the list. Anyhow as sponsors are involved the last thing they want to do is lose their income revenue from all of those, even if they lose they'll generate a lot of viewership. If Echo wins without streaming then they lose that entire pie, I wouldn't be surprised if sponsors contact them to tell them to stream.

  2. #1002
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Limit did the exact same thing lol..
    Except Limit is streaming Sire progress right now.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  3. #1003
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Except Limit is streaming Sire progress right now.
    Yeah, hats off to them for not being secretive and silly.

  4. #1004
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Except Limit is streaming Sire progress right now.
    I think he refers to the council of blood kill.

  5. #1005
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Limit did the exact same thing lol..
    Stopping the stream after their raid is done just to test tactic on the next boss to provide better content to the viewers on the next day is not the exact same thing. The problem was that the boss was the joke and just died while they were testing tactic. If you are having trouble believing that check the time between Limit's kills and you will notice ~1h differance. Echo just stopped before peak hours during which their streams are peaking while they have huge advantage over Limit currently which is a douche move.

  6. #1006
    Quote Originally Posted by gobarj View Post
    They did, though I guess it counts more for a final boss vs a boss early in the list. Anyhow as sponsors are involved the last thing they want to do is lose their income revenue from all of those, even if they lose they'll generate a lot of viewership. If Echo wins without streaming then they lose that entire pie, I wouldn't be surprised if sponsors contact them to tell them to stream.
    Whats up with the sponsor thing? Method had sponsors for years without streaming any progress at all.

    You guys have no idea what their contracts looks like.
    Last edited by Clozer; 2020-12-21 at 06:53 PM.

  7. #1007
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Whats up with the sponsor thing? Method had sponsors for years without streaming any progress at all.

    You guys have no idea what their contracts looks like.
    Feel free to google "Red Bull Method drama" and get an idea of how their sponsorships worked (or... did not work). Method was on the rise as an organization and should get a huge amount of credit for helping the scene move towards this kind of streaming, but at the end of the day the sponsorships they had are nothing compared to a huge organization like Complexity.

  8. #1008
    Quote Originally Posted by gobarj View Post
    They did, though I guess it counts more for a final boss vs a boss early in the list. Anyhow as sponsors are involved the last thing they want to do is lose their income revenue from all of those, even if they lose they'll generate a lot of viewership. If Echo wins without streaming then they lose that entire pie, I wouldn't be surprised if sponsors contact them to tell them to stream.
    Sponsors only really gain a lot of traction and exposure from the world first kill video. Because that’s what being shared to the masses. Not from wiping 300 times on a live stream.

    Guilds have had sponsors even when the race wasn’t streamed.

  9. #1009
    Quote Originally Posted by Einsz View Post
    Stopping the stream after their raid is done just to test tactic on the next boss to provide better content to the viewers on the next day is not the exact same thing. The problem was that the boss was the joke and just died while they were testing tactic. If you are having trouble believing that check the time between Limit's kills and you will notice ~1h differance. Echo just stopped before peak hours during which their streams are peaking while they have huge advantage over Limit currently which is a douche move.
    It wasn't even a context thing, it was the standard thing every racing guild does. If they get to a new boss at the end of the raid time they pull it a few times for timers, test a strategy, etc really quick so they can theorycraft before the next raid. The problem was that council was a pushover boss and just died which they didn't expect to happen.

  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by babyback View Post
    Sponsors only really gain a lot traction and exposure from the world first kill video. Because that’s what being shared to the masses. Not from wiping 300 times on a live streams.

    Guilds have had sponsors even when the race wasn’t streamed.
    Method's Eternal Palace World First kill of Queen Azshara has 564k views on YouTube after being available for more than a year. Max currently has over 50k people watching an empty chair on his stream in this exact moment, while they take a lunch break... If you're not familiar with the typical ratios of concurrent viewers versus total unique views, it's very lopsided and this stream is infinitely more popular even with literally nothing happening right now. Twitch is hugely popular for a reason, don't be that guy.

    Here's some more stats: https://twitchtracker.com/limit_maximum -- 3.3 million hours watched, do you really think that's not more valuable to sponsors than a single YouTube video?
    Last edited by supmeh; 2020-12-21 at 07:14 PM.

  11. #1011
    Quote Originally Posted by gobarj View Post
    No they didn't?
    they did for 1 pull

    i, as a donator, cannot just stand by and let them ruin my fun with their ideas

    im sure you agree that muting coms is very disrespectful towards the viewer

  12. #1012
    Quote Originally Posted by babyback View Post
    Sponsors only really gain a lot of traction and exposure from the world first kill video. Because that’s what being shared to the masses. Not from wiping 300 times on a live stream.

    Guilds have had sponsors even when the race wasn’t streamed.
    That's so wrong it's hilarious. Limit's N'zoth video still to this day only has 300k views and that's an end expansion boss kill. The world first videos are absolutely nothing to the weeks of constant advertising to thousands upon thousands of people for 16 to 20 hours a day.

  13. #1013
    Quote Originally Posted by sensei- View Post
    Nonsense. They’ll stream once it’s obvious they will win.
    So they probably won't be streaming it then since it's likely this will come down to the wire.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Limit did the exact same thing lol..
    Limit has been streaming sire progress all morning. They just took a break for lunch. Unless you mean the sub 1 hour kill of council where including trash they likely pulled maybe 3 times and it just happened to die because they picked the right order.

  14. #1014
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    So they probably won't be streaming it then since it's likely this will come down to the wire.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Limit has been streaming sire progress all morning. They just took a break for lunch. Unless you mean the sub 1 hour kill of council where including trash they likely pulled maybe 3 times and it just happened to die because they picked the right order.
    So they didn't stream progress on council? Ok.

  15. #1015
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhyroth View Post
    I understand this happens in a lot of sport events and other events but I can't wrap my head around the fact Guilds (or organisations in this case) beg the community for Characters they can "boost" in Raids for them to get Gear traded to them.
    I remember in Wrath Paragon started the whole splits thing, but it wasn't until like Legion I think (or whenever cross realm was added) where we saw streamers/Guilds beg for M+ keys (MoS) and players who were eligible/willing to trade Gear to them.
    For me this seems to give an unfair advantage to those who have the biggest following and not to those who can come up with own creative ways to overcome challenges.
    I'm not pointing fingers or saying it's something which shouldn't be allowed, but I wonder to what extend Guilds will go in the future to obtain an edge in Gearing.
    Also the entire "buying BoE's" thing seems to be something I hadn't expected to happen 5 years ago.
    If personal loot could be traded regardless of ilvl in that slot you wouldn't see that happen. You would simple see more guild splits just like they did the first week.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by supmeh View Post
    If you actually think that killing a boss a few hours earlier in one single tier is more important that community interaction, personality, stream consistency, etc then you are oblivious. This is true even in real sports, where teams like the Dallas Cowboys were the most popular NFL team in the world even when they weren't winning Super Bowls. It's even more lopsided when it comes to Twitch and the "virtual" world -- just look at the top WoW streamers if you don't believe me. Sure someone like Jokerd gets a huge influx when he was world first, then it tapered off despite great efforts from him to keep people entertained, while regular WoW personalities can thrive even without big moments.

    Winning is definitely important, of course, nobody cares about a raiding guild that can't even get to the last boss before it is killed. However, as you get stronger from there, there are diminishing returns in terms of fanbase/sponsor numbers/etc. Conversely, building an actual community of fans has nearly unlimited return and will last much longer, and can do great things for legitimizing this kind of entertainment and content.

    That being said, obviously Gingi has also done a lot of community interaction and built up a lot of fans already, so its not like this choice by Echo is going to ruin all of the great growth he's seen on Twitch either.
    Jokerd is actually getting pretty darn good views now that he is in pieces.

  16. #1016
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatIsLegion View Post
    That's so wrong it's hilarious. Limit's N'zoth video still to this day only has 300k views and that's an end expansion boss kill. The world first videos are absolutely nothing to the weeks of constant advertising to thousands upon thousands of people for 16 to 20 hours a day.
    The Twitch crowd isn’t what Corsair and whatnot need to reach anymore. That market is already cornered by the gaming brands.

    It is also pretty much the same consecutive people that are watching the streams. Even if it’s 50k people.

    The audience a gaming brand need to reach to widen their brand are those who still use old HP keyboards. Those are more inclined to watch a video shared on the wow Twitter than a livestream

  17. #1017
    Quote Originally Posted by babyback View Post
    Sponsors only really gain a lot of traction and exposure from the world first kill video. Because that’s what being shared to the masses. Not from wiping 300 times on a live stream.

    Guilds have had sponsors even when the race wasn’t streamed.
    I mean I agree the world first video is good for advertisement but those numbers don't add up beyond that. Twitch has far, far more traffic/traction and it's not very close either.

  18. #1018
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    So they didn't stream progress on council? Ok.
    It was sub one hour on a mid tier boss not really the same as turning off streams for the last boss.

  19. #1019
    Quote Originally Posted by babyback View Post
    The Twitch crowd isn’t what Corsair and whatnot need to reach. That market is already cornered by the gaming brands.

    It is also pretty much the same consecutive people that are watching the streams. Even if it’s 50k people.

    The audience a gaming brand need to reach to widen their brand are those who still use old HP keyboards. Those are more inclined to watch a video shared on the wow Twitter than a livestream
    This also isn't true but I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, even on smaller streams with sub 1000 viewers the audience shifts very drastically, there's plenty of metrics you can find online that show this, I imagine this would hold even more for large streams like Max's.

    I also don't know if I agree with the Corsair thing, I do think the Twitch audience is the audience they want to reach the most so they buy their brand of keyboard instead of the other brand's keyboard. Random boomers on Youtube are less likely to spend money on some gamer keyboard in the first place.

  20. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    If personal loot could be traded regardless of ilvl in that slot you wouldn't see that happen. You would simple see more guild splits just like they did the first week.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Jokerd is actually getting pretty darn good views now that he is in pieces.
    Awesome. I didn't mean to take a cheap shot at him, I've seen some of his stuff and he's entertaining, and it seems like he's put a lot of effort into his streaming career! My point was that all of that work and follow up is what causes the success, his world first was just a quicker foot in the door to get started.

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