1. #1

    Which covenant do you think most members of each race would be?

    Technically I don't think you should be able to reach a consensus, because it depends on how you lived your life, but a culture can greatly influence a race or group to go a certain way.

    Where do you think each race would have most of their members? Feel free to include certain periods where a race changed a lot and behaved differently, influencing their shadowlands covenant.


    e.g. High Elves: Kyrian up till the scourge invasion.
    Blood elves: Revendreth for most deaths afterwards


    Night elves: Revendreth, Kyrians and Night Fae for the millions that died in the first invasion of the legion (remember these weren't the evil night elves)
    Revendreth and the Maw for the Zin'Azshari highborne, naga, satyr who were slaughtered by the kaldorei resistance
    Night Fae for the NElves who died in WC3

    Orcs: Pre horde: Night Fae and Maldraxxus
    Horde era: Maldraxxus and the Maw
    New Horde era: Maldraxxus mainly


    That sort of thing: Frankly I think humans are the only ones that could literally go in any covenant, the other races are too shoe horned in one aspect.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2020-11-30 at 11:22 PM.
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    That sort of thing: Frankly I think humans are the only ones that could literally go in any covenant, the other races are too shoe horned in one aspect.
    I don't think thats true. Even with a race like the post-Sundering Night Elves with a "natural" affinity for Ardenweald, you have enough diversity in personality types to see a variety of destinations. Someone as proud as Fandral (pre-Cata) would likely go to Revendreth; a Warden could end up in Bastion; and a military-type like the Sentinels could end up in Maldraxxus (though I agree this seems the least best fit).

    I think Blizz deliberately tried to divorce the afterlives we see in Shadowlands from Azerothian belief systems to try and avoid the shoehorning of certain races to certain afterlives based solely on their culture or beliefs- though admittedly Ardenweald blurs this somewhat with its link to the Dream.
    Whether this was the right thing to do I'm not so sure: playing through Shadowlands as a Shaman or even a true believer in the Holy Light feels weird considering how completely divorced these potential afterlives are from your deep-held belief systems. Non-Light worshipping Uther feels odd for this reason.

  3. #3
    I think San'layn would feel right at home in Revendreth... As for the rest, I don't know I feel like they deserve better lol.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharivor View Post
    I think Blizz deliberately tried to divorce the afterlives we see in Shadowlands from Azerothian belief systems to try and avoid the shoehorning of certain races to certain afterlives based solely on their culture or beliefs- though admittedly Ardenweald blurs this somewhat with its link to the Dream.
    Whether this was the right thing to do I'm not so sure: playing through Shadowlands as a Shaman or even a true believer in the Holy Light feels weird considering how completely divorced these potential afterlives are from your deep-held belief systems. Non-Light worshipping Uther feels odd for this reason.
    I actually kinda like the belief shock aspect of this. It makes it seem like the Bastion afterlife was confused by religious Azeroth types to be an afterlife you achieve when following the light when it's completely detached by that. Belief doesn't dictate your afterlife. Your actions do, and every culture/race had its fair share of members that acted in a manner fitting of each covenant.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharivor View Post
    I don't think thats true. Even with a race like the post-Sundering Night Elves with a "natural" affinity for Ardenweald, you have enough diversity in personality types to see a variety of destinations. Someone as proud as Fandral (pre-Cata) would likely go to Revendreth; a Warden could end up in Bastion; and a military-type like the Sentinels could end up in Maldraxxus (though I agree this seems the least best fit).

    I think Blizz deliberately tried to divorce the afterlives we see in Shadowlands from Azerothian belief systems to try and avoid the shoehorning of certain races to certain afterlives based solely on their culture or beliefs- though admittedly Ardenweald blurs this somewhat with its link to the Dream.
    Whether this was the right thing to do I'm not so sure: playing through Shadowlands as a Shaman or even a true believer in the Holy Light feels weird considering how completely divorced these potential afterlives are from your deep-held belief systems. Non-Light worshipping Uther feels odd for this reason.
    I think that's what they tried to do, but i think they largely failed.
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I think that's what they tried to do, but i think they largely failed.
    With Ardenweald I can see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure about the others.

    The Venthyr might remind us of the Blood Elves, but you don't go to Revendreth because you're like the Venthyr- you go there because you have major sins in need of purging. While that fits Kael'thas it hardly seems appropriate for the majority of Blood Elves, who at least these days aren't much more evil than any other race.

    Similarly both Bastion and Maldraxxus are far enough removed I think from the majority of races for any race to be an automatic fit there. Despite their devotion, followers of the Light like the Draenei would have a difficult time adjusting to an afterlife like Bastion where they are forced to forget all of that. And despite Draka's appearance in Maldraxxus I can't imagine a modern shamanistic orc being happy wandering around as an warmongering undead for the rest of eternity- most hope to rest peacefully with their ancestors despite their warlike nature. These covenants have aesthetic similarities, but when you think about it they have no real link with any Azerothian cultures that would force souls there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nize View Post
    I actually kinda like the belief shock aspect of this. It makes it seem like the Bastion afterlife was confused by religious Azeroth types to be an afterlife you achieve when following the light when it's completely detached by that. Belief doesn't dictate your afterlife. Your actions do, and every culture/race had its fair share of members that acted in a manner fitting of each covenant.
    I can see where you're coming from. I just think its one of those things that has too much cultural and religious implications for Azeroth for Blizzard to pull off. I mean we really should be seeing more negative reactions, both from our own characters and from Azeroth as a whole, to what we're seeing here yet Blizzard hasn't given any indication that they intend for this to be the case.
    Last edited by Tharivor; 2020-12-01 at 12:36 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharivor View Post
    With Ardenweald I can see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure about the others.

    The Venthyr might remind us of the Blood Elves, but you don't go to Revendreth because you're like the Venthyr- you go there because you have major sins in need of purging. While that fits Kael'thas it hardly seems appropriate for the majority of Blood Elves, who at least these days aren't much more evil than any other race.
    It is implied from the questing that the sins commited don't actually have to be that vile. As Denathrius mentions they are punishing "arrogant souls", which implies that a character trait is enough to sentence one to revendreth.

  8. #8
    Nightelves would mostly fall in maldraxxus and bastion. They aren't really developed as individualized thinkers, and the whole nature connection thing was more malfurions thing not every single commoner. Maybe the higher ups would be in revendreth due to the fact that they had access to an ever living race of educatable humanoids and they instead typically have pursued either power or just comfort.

    Gnomes and goblins would probably be gargoyles cause shortman syndrome

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharivor View Post
    With Ardenweald I can see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure about the others.

    The Venthyr might remind us of the Blood Elves, but you don't go to Revendreth because you're like the Venthyr- you go there because you have major sins in need of purging. While that fits Kael'thas it hardly seems appropriate for the majority of Blood Elves, who at least these days aren't much more evil than any other race.

    Similarly both Bastion and Maldraxxus are far enough removed I think from the majority of races for any race to be an automatic fit there. Despite their devotion, followers of the Light like the Draenei would have a difficult time adjusting to an afterlife like Bastion where they are forced to forget all of that. And despite Draka's appearance in Maldraxxus I can't imagine a modern shamanistic orc being happy wandering around as an warmongering undead for the rest of eternity- most hope to rest peacefully with their ancestors despite their warlike nature. These covenants have aesthetic similarities, but when you think about it they have no real link with any Azerothian cultures that would force souls there.

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    I can see where you're coming from. I just think its one of those things that has too much cultural and religious implications for Azeroth for Blizzard to pull off. I mean we really should be seeing more negative reactions, both from our own characters and from Azeroth as a whole, to what we're seeing here yet Blizzard hasn't given any indication that they intend for this to be the case.
    Once again, the lore is the weakest part of an otherwise much better expansion product, it was the same with BFA too, except systems didn't really improve on Legion, but that was primarily because they felt efficiency and streamlining = better.

    Take your observation about the Draenei not wanting to forget - why would any good and righteous person want to forget their previous life at all? Would you want to celebrate it and get rewarded for it, keeping the memories?


    They made an extensive lore dance about the reasoning, but despite all the effort, i still just doesn't make sense you'd have to forget everything or be forced to, and that these beings will feel that's the righ way to go.

    Did the writers feel every soul was so tortured by life and had witnessed the level of horrors a soldier does and needed to totally forget to be made whole?

    I would also question the logic of needing to forget to be made complete..it sounds more like enslavemen wih a memory wipe to ensure you stay loyal to the cause , there is nothing righteous or good or pure about that at all.

    And as such the lore again once more is rubbish - because it's a terrible idea.

    I know "good" haters would love i, because of the connoations of the church and religion which hey hate, so anyhing that paints that sor of thing in a badlight makes them feeel good even though it's nonsense.

    But since Illidan and Xe'ra the insane levels of bad have risen.

    Anyway, if the shadowlands is what there is to expect of an afterlife of eternity, then, dying truly sucks, and the only hope is to achieve immortality in life and make it a paradise, because the afterlife is definitely not it.


    And no, i wouldn't want my anima harvested as fuel for all the beings there, it's creepy.
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

  10. #10
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    I don't think the Covenants really work on the basis of large groups like the races in WoW, they're tailored more to individual personalities than they are applicable on a wider basis.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindon View Post
    It is implied from the questing that the sins commited don't actually have to be that vile. As Denathrius mentions they are punishing "arrogant souls", which implies that a character trait is enough to sentence one to revendreth.
    I guess that would put most pre-sundering Highborne who died in the first invasion squarely in Revendreth, whether they aided the Legion or not - well if they died by the hands of the demons they werne't on the demons' side. The caste was notorious for it's arrogance, but then so were most of the kaldorei.

    Most Zandalari would end up in Revendreth too, they're also a very arrogant bunch.

    LRHOFUH AOMW QOULW S e
    Valewalker Farodin:

    "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

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