View Poll Results: What covenant did you choose?

Voters
198. You may not vote on this poll
  • Night Fae

    34 17.17%
  • Kyrian

    15 7.58%
  • Necrolord

    81 40.91%
  • Venthyr

    68 34.34%
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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tesshin20 View Post
    This is not true. Performance in raids and where it matters is more than just producing more HPs numbers. You can't do ANY healing at all if you are dead, so abilities that keep you alive or buff other players will make you indirectly produce more healing in the long term. There is no way theoycraft this and this is also not that show up on healing meters.

    We have many abilities that are very powerful that do not produce and numbers on the meters, but people still avoid them.

    Night Fae for raiding as resto shaman at least during progression is king as the blink and mobility will make you survive and learn the encounters more efficiently. I take that over being 3% behind on some meter no one remembers 2 hours later. Also in dungeons with Fae Transfusion on every pack I am doing around 2.3k dps next to my healing at the moment. Which also matters.
    You discredit the theorycrafting community in a way that's not related to reality. There have been discussions in the class discords for months about every single aspect of every single covenant. That includes pure numbers, it includes different use cases, it includes the way different bosses work and how the abilities sync up with them, it includes timers and cooldowns. This idea that guides only care about pure DPS or HPS is a lie perpetuated by an anti-elititst community.

    That said, for many specs the covenants are close, for some they are not. And after all, you can get CE with a holy priest, you can get CE with a NF shaman as well. And when I say that people who pick "wrong" covenants don't care about performance, I mean that they value other things above performance, but they can still value performance to some degree. It's just not their primary concern. And that's fine.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    So, why exactly every site is telling us to avoid NF?

    It’s just a simple question, I am curious since in 3-4 days I’ll have to chose my resto covenant too.
    If you are really concerned about your pick, I suggest joining the Resto discord. Niseko who wrote the wowhead guide is a great player and he's active there. If you simply ask them "which should I pick" you'll probably get told to just read a guide but you can always try to get some info about what lead the community to their conclusions that eventually ended up in the guide. A lot of it was based on extensive raid testing I can say immediatly though.

  2. #42
    I love night fae for hunter, soulshape is fun and the aoe is disgustingly good when it comes to wiping out hordes of mobs.

  3. #43
    Kyrian, because 95% of hunters went Night Fae

  4. #44
    Pit Lord Nutri's Avatar
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    I went with whatever the guides told me what was best for the content that I play.

    Don't really care for transmogs since I change they all the time. If they weren't covenant bound I would have loved getting the plate necrolord set but hey, maybe after the xpac.

  5. #45
    I went into the expansion sure I would pick Venthyr, but when the choice came up I wasn't so sure anymore

    Took me several hours of soul searching, I was caught between Venthyr and Night Fae in the end. So I went through several comparisons:

    1) Looks - The Plate NF set is pretty dope, but the Venythyr set has the edge. Plus NF do not have a 2H Sword, just two different hammers.
    2) Abilities - Soul Shape is clearly better then Door, but I never much liked to transform my character.
    3) Class Ability - Both NF and Venthyr have useful abilities for my DK. Since I both Tank and DPS I figured Venthyr to be a bit better, since NF only really supports the 2H Frost build and that only a bit. The Runic Power gained by the Venthyr ability supports Tanking and DPS equally and is a strong aoe for just 1 Rune.

    4) Style/Theme - That was what it came down to in the end. Venthyr have the theme of Repentance, Rehabilitation and Vengeance while the NF are about the cycle of Life and Death. Both are fully legit, but I felt a disconnect with the theme of the NF for my DK. Venthyr just fit better.

    So in the end the Venythr won with a small margin. Not regretting it, but I also look forward to playing alt through other Covenants.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Sezh View Post
    You discredit the theorycrafting community in a way that's not related to reality. There have been discussions in the class discords for months about every single aspect of every single covenant. That includes pure numbers, it includes different use cases, it includes the way different bosses work and how the abilities sync up with them, it includes timers and cooldowns. This idea that guides only care about pure DPS or HPS is a lie perpetuated by an anti-elititst community.

    That said, for many specs the covenants are close, for some they are not. And after all, you can get CE with a holy priest, you can get CE with a NF shaman as well. And when I say that people who pick "wrong" covenants don't care about performance, I mean that they value other things above performance, but they can still value performance to some degree. It's just not their primary concern. And that's fine.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If you are really concerned about your pick, I suggest joining the Resto discord. Niseko who wrote the wowhead guide is a great player and he's active there. If you simply ask them "which should I pick" you'll probably get told to just read a guide but you can always try to get some info about what lead the community to their conclusions that eventually ended up in the guide. A lot of it was based on extensive raid testing I can say immediatly though.
    I read both icyveins and wowhead guides, none of them recommend NF in the slightest.

    That, as I said, is just fine for me since I hated the NF zone, but since many picked it in here I was just curious about the choice.

    But probably I tend to forget that also allies have shamans so they probably like the trilly and treats themes more than horde characters.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    I picked Necro on my priest and will probably do the same with my shaman. I was torn between them and Vent but ended up going Necro as the spells, abilities, mounts, and pet all looked better to me than Vent when I factored everything in.



    Yes a teleport that allows you to teleport on top of ledges and across gaps. The Night Fae one stops at walls and at the end of a ledge if you are close to it. When I was leveling up I used Door of Shadows to get to areas above me without having to run way around places to get where I needed to go. Much more utility than a blink was.



    Of the 4 zones (and I guess you could say the Maw too if you really want to lol) Ardenweald was the most boring place to be outside of the last 1/3 of the Wildseed quest. That's saying a lot since Bastion was a snoozefest too because of their holier than thou attitude that comes across in their campaign quests. The reason why Night Fae isn't recommended on any site is....well read below and you'll see why its not specifically stated as "not recommended".



    For the ultra casual player they usually don't care about sites like that because they don't care about doing anything other than RP'ing, maybe heroic dungeons, raid finder, leveling alts, pet battles, or just going world quests. None of those things really require much input from sites where it recommends talents or in this case covenants & soulbinds. The truth of the matter is all of those things I listed can be easily pushed through without paying attention to the majority of mechanics. If mechanics can be ignored then why would talents, covenants, or soulbinds matter either?



    I fully agree with you that numbers aren't the only deciding factor when it comes to picking talents, covenants, conduits, or soulbinds. Some times the utility that something provides to your raid/group is important too. Sites like wowhead and Icy-Veins have taken into account utility along with defensive usefulness too when they have recommended talents, covenants, conduits, and soulbinds. Factoring all 4 of those things in, Night Fae is at the most "decent" for resto, elemental, and enhancement. Each of those sites even have stated how if you're looking for an "overall generically decent covenant" then use Kryian because they excel at giving a little bit of both AOE and single target abilities to the player while being meh at both individually. Basically Kryian was recommended for their ability to switch between an AOE situation and a single target situation at the drop of a hat in terms of M+ runs or raiding while Necro and Vent excel in either an AOE situation or a single target situation.



    I'm curious which "many abilities" you are referring to that are very powerful and don't produce numbers that people avoid getting?
    Ancestral Vigor and Devotion Aura come easily to mind.

  8. #48
    I went Kyrian with my main (Resto shaman), largely because I loved Bastion as a zone and wanted to see where the story goes. Necrolords was recommended for performance reasons, but I really don't like Maldraxxus. It's such an ugly zone.
    My resto druid got Night Fae, because it fit really well thematically (can you tell I don't do mythics or raids much?).

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    For the ultra casual player they usually don't care about sites like that because they don't care about doing anything other than RP'ing, maybe heroic dungeons, raid finder, leveling alts, pet battles, or just going world quests. None of those things really require much input from sites where it recommends talents or in this case covenants & soulbinds. The truth of the matter is all of those things I listed can be easily pushed through without paying attention to the majority of mechanics. If mechanics can be ignored then why would talents, covenants, or soulbinds matter either?
    That's and unfounded generalization, with no data to back it up (but if you have some, I'd gladly have a look). I do Mythic raiding (by no means "world firsts") and M+ (not super high, but easily in the range of 18-20) and I've picked Night Fae. Even if the ability is not THE BEST, I know I can make up for it somewhere else - its influence on numbers is small, especially after the beta nerfs to pretty much everything Covenant-related.

  10. #50
    I am Murloc! gaymer77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    That's and unfounded generalization, with no data to back it up (but if you have some, I'd gladly have a look). I do Mythic raiding (by no means "world firsts") and M+ (not super high, but easily in the range of 18-20) and I've picked Night Fae. Even if the ability is not THE BEST, I know I can make up for it somewhere else - its influence on numbers is small, especially after the beta nerfs to pretty much everything Covenant-related.
    No offense but if you do any of those things you just listed above and still picked the Night Fae, you're pretty damn stupid. Night Fae are the worst choice for any of those options....

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    No offense but if you do any of those things you just listed above and still picked the Night Fae, you're pretty damn stupid. Night Fae are the worst choice for any of those options....
    Oh, don't worry, none taken. It's completely fine, I don't mind being "stupid" if it means I can make a story choice I enjoy and still succesfully complete all the activities I've mentioned (which I will). If you prefer to be shoehorned into those choices to beat a boss a minute faster than I do (or do a key one level higher) - by all means, go for it. For me, that kind of mindset is long gone. And I prefer to think it's being wise, not stupid - but you can call it whatever you like
    Last edited by Rageonit; 2020-12-02 at 10:33 AM.

  12. #52
    Scarab Lord Motorman's Avatar
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    I went night fae as a sub rogue because the extra mobility through transformation is just crazy. Plus I felt that if I was going to spend a longer time doing a specific covenant, then it would have to be at a place i like.
    WoW forums in a nutshell:
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  13. #53
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    I've yet to decide. I though I'd go with Night Fae, but I really hate their ability.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  14. #54
    Haha, jokes on me. Really disliked repositioning totems in the past ("no path available" due to every single tiny shit on the floor on Tectus for example or accidentally placing my totems on top of some flying thing at the Twin Consorts in ToT), and I really dislike the reticule thing for this reason, yet I went Night Fae.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Haha, jokes on me. Really disliked repositioning totems in the past ("no path available" due to every single tiny shit on the floor on Tectus for example or accidentally placing my totems on top of some flying thing at the Twin Consorts in ToT), and I really dislike the reticule thing for this reason, yet I went Night Fae.
    you can macro it to be casted on target although im not sure its best way in this case :P
    + is that it can be re-positioned for 1 global each time
    - that it have rather small range (a bit stupid as there is also target limit) so you have to pay attention where you put it :P

    there is still time to rethink choices, changing covenant is free and we are not to far into progression on it yet :P
    Last edited by kosajk; 2020-12-02 at 11:16 AM.

    "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst"

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by kosajk View Post
    you can macro it to be casted on target although im not sure its best way in this case :P
    + is that it can be re-positioned for 1 global each time
    - that it have rather small range (a bit stupid as there is also target limit) so you have to pay attention where you put it :P

    there is still time to rethink choices, changing covenant is free and we are not to far into progression on it yet :P
    On target no, @cursor but it's still shitty.

  17. #57
    Bloodsail Admiral kosajk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    On target no, @cursor but it's still shitty.
    hmm they disabled that functionality im pretty sure it was been castable at target at some expansion :P
    i prefer personal placement so may be im not up to date on it ;P

    "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst"

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Sezh View Post
    You discredit the theorycrafting community in a way that's not related to reality. There have been discussions in the class discords for months about every single aspect of every single covenant. That includes pure numbers, it includes different use cases, it includes the way different bosses work and how the abilities sync up with them, it includes timers and cooldowns. This idea that guides only care about pure DPS or HPS is a lie perpetuated by an anti-elititst community.

    That said, for many specs the covenants are close, for some they are not. And after all, you can get CE with a holy priest, you can get CE with a NF shaman as well. And when I say that people who pick "wrong" covenants don't care about performance, I mean that they value other things above performance, but they can still value performance to some degree. It's just not their primary concern. And that's fine.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If you are really concerned about your pick, I suggest joining the Resto discord. Niseko who wrote the wowhead guide is a great player and he's active there. If you simply ask them "which should I pick" you'll probably get told to just read a guide but you can always try to get some info about what lead the community to their conclusions that eventually ended up in the guide. A lot of it was based on extensive raid testing I can say immediatly though.
    Quite wrong to be honest.

    I have been a part of the theorycrafting community for almost 15 years and there is lively debate on these thing. Its not that its an objective truth to these things. Even we theorycrafters will do research often will often come to the conclusions that aren't correct. We are not scientist we aren't entirely subjective on these matters.

    When I say how the discussion goes and what they emphazise while testing, its not a lie, its my observation of being part of the theorycrafting community for many years. There are things which is almost impossible to theorycraft. This is something we all now and are often taken out of the consideration.

    The whole point is that NF has been now portrayed as if its useless and not worth taking for shamans. This is not true at all. I am fully aware it can't be abused in a way that Necrolord can, but that's not my argument either.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    No offense but if you do any of those things you just listed above and still picked the Night Fae, you're pretty damn stupid. Night Fae are the worst choice for any of those options....
    If you actually believe that is the case, I am sad to say that you don't fully understand how this game works and you are too influenced by a combination of player perception and what you want to be true.

  19. #59
    Went Night Fae for the best thematic fit for a Shaman (though I agree with the poster on the first page who said it's mostly Hunter/Druid flavored) and for the Mail robe transmog.

    Soulshape feels a bit redundant when we already have Ghost Wolf.. but the blink effect has already come in handy a few times for avoiding things in dungeons/Torghast, so it is not without its benefits.

  20. #60
    Necrolords. Best Covenant skill for Resto and somehow I dig them for Shamans as a kind of "Plague Doctor" playstyle.
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