View Poll Results: Which third party closely aligns with your values?

Voters
12. You may not vote on this poll
  • Constitution Party

    0 0%
  • Green Party

    6 50.00%
  • Libertarian Party

    3 25.00%
  • Reform Party

    3 25.00%
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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    I notice people keep talking about the electoral college as if it is the only problem with our current electoral system. But again, this is an issue of how much people seem to focus solely on the presidency.

    I mention to every far left person on this forum, what would happen if Bernie won? You would not get free college or medicare for all or any other democratic socialist wet dreams? Not at all, because of the division of power, the president has relatively little power overall in our government, and people would need more candidates on the far left in office for anything like that to even remotely be a pipe dream. Legislators are what you need, and even that system of voting encourages only two parties existing.
    And that, right there, is why I tell everyone I know (and have several times on this forum) to get grassroot movements instead of looking at the office of POTUS.
    Get local officials that support you, get state reps that support you. Get a state party going. Are you in Massachusetts wishing the people of Alabama had it better? Work the grassroots in Alabama. If you can, go there, if you can't craigslist to find people on the ground to work with.
    Will this be cheap? No, it'll cost time and money. Money for small time adds in the local paper or just dropped in letter boxes. Time in talking with people about goals and stuff. Will you, the you reading and wanting, have to supply money? Not necessarily, not if you can't. But time? If you want change, yes.

    Then, for federal elections. Always vote for the major party that'll repress you the least. This isn't purity, this is tactics. The Green Party I'd never vote for if I was in the US, since the leadership all seem to be selfserving grifters.
    Why? They participate in the POTUS election. They shouldn't. It's a waste of their time and money. A green party POTUS with a regular congress would be a lame duck, rubberstamping laws with hardly any imput.

    If you want change, work from the local level. Then work county and state levels. Set your house in order then go up. Elect a federal house rep, for now, not the POTUS.
    - Lars

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    This is not true at all what is your evidence in your argument for this being true? Because both parties are established yes, but that doesn't mean it's biased outside of any other bias that literally is the entire point of politics.

    - - - Updated - - -




    This soo much gets over looked in the same is True of Sanders the difference was Sanders was less successful in over all than Trump for the Republicans, because Trump had no conscience and would literally say and do almost anything to win.
    You don't seem to understand FPTP voting. Since no majority of individual votes is actually needed, and runoff elections aren't a thing, then the inherent push is two parties. It becomes a binary choice. All too often, it amounts to voting against the other party.

    Think about it this way. You have 1000 people, and 1000 "parties" where a person would simply vote for himself. Getting only 2 votes would mean a person would win. Game theory dictates that you would immediately see smaller coalitions form, so that those people can be a part of the "winning" team with the most points. This trend would continue to as close to homeostasis as possible, which means two main parties.

    If one party ever loses too much of a share to be competitive, then you are either left with a totalitarian result of democracy, or a splintering of the larger party; in an attempt to shift priorities.

    As for the Electoral College, that simply exacerbates the problem, because in that same group of 1000 people, some would be given 1 vote, while others would be given more 3 votes. It further dislodges the ideals of a third party, and also promotes minority rule, without actually protecting any liberties.
    Last edited by Machismo; 2020-12-04 at 12:46 PM.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post

    Then, for federal elections. Always vote for the major party that'll repress you the least. This isn't purity, this is tactics.
    It seems like literally every election you get a lot of people saying this is as if it were some incredible revelation they just thought of.

    People have been doing this for a century. It doesn't work. It led to Trump and now Biden's victory, two of the worst human beings I can think of let alone amongst poiticians. You essentially get a neo-liberal dictatorship where you get a meaningless choice between two parties with identical policies.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by sandstill View Post
    It seems like literally every election you get a lot of people saying this is as if it were some incredible revelation they just thought of.

    People have been doing this for a century. It doesn't work. It led to Trump and now Biden's victory, two of the worst human beings I can think of let alone amongst poiticians. You essentially get a neo-liberal dictatorship where you get a meaningless choice between two parties with identical policies.
    And what would have happened if people voted for Don Blankenship (Constitution Party) or Jo Jorgensen (Libertarian Party) or Howie Hawkins (Green Party) had any of them made it on every state ballot?

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    And what would have happened if people voted for Don Blankenship (Constitution Party) or Jo Jorgensen (Libertarian Party) or Howie Hawkins (Green Party) had any of them made it on every state ballot?
    You would have had a different president.

  6. #106
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandstill View Post
    You would have had a different president.
    Not with Jorgensen... Trump supporters are blaming him for a couple of losses, since he pulled conservatives. If he had a greater representation, Biden would have had a wider margin of victory.

    Edit: Correction... She...
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    My body is a wonderland.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by sandstill View Post
    It seems like literally every election you get a lot of people saying this is as if it were some incredible revelation they just thought of.

    People have been doing this for a century. It doesn't work. It led to Trump and now Biden's victory, two of the worst human beings I can think of let alone amongst poiticians. You essentially get a neo-liberal dictatorship where you get a meaningless choice between two parties with identical policies.
    And the POTUS is, in many senses, the smallest problem.
    If you want change, you'll get it on the local and state level. Not from the office of the president. In the meantime you just want to make sure you don't get a surpreme court that'll crush unions (even more). To just use one example.
    And don't claim both parties are the same. One of them is pushing to make using prison labour as defacto slavery to be constitutionally illegal. The other isn't.
    - Lars

  8. #108
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Hey remember that Angus King guy I mentioned? The Independent Senator from Maine. Before that he was the Independent Governor of Maine for two terms. And he was elected before Jesse was. He is still well liked enough that he won both of his senate campaigns easily.

    Fun fact: In his first Gubernatorial election he crushed Susan Collins.
    Yes Angus King back in 1993 ok you are right, but how does that contrast with what I said except for Ventura not being the first. That was near 30 years ago, How has Angus or any other independent translated into growing or building a 3rd party as I said?


    Because by your metric or mine it hasn't.

    Prevailing my point that 3rd Parties don't fix or solve anything, and they don't translate into other candidates.
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  9. #109
    Legendary! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    And what would have happened if people voted for Don Blankenship (Constitution Party) or Jo Jorgensen (Libertarian Party) or Howie Hawkins (Green Party) had any of them made it on every state ballot?
    Throw in there all of them being on the stage at a debate or the media not going " The TWO candidates for President are..." might help some as well.

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