Did they retcon Titans size?

[Varodoc]

This Comparison is not even the best one. Legit just look at the Seat of the Pantheon.

Right, but Sargeras is the only worthless giant I find remotely interesting, so I chose him as the example.

[TheFirstOnes]

Right, but Sargeras is the only worthless giant I find remotely interesting, so I chose him as the example.

Why not use the time where the leader of the Aldrachi, Toranaar, initiated a duel with Sargeras and actually managed to deal a blow to the Dark Titan? Sure, it was a small blow, but it was still a blow. Sargeras probably changed his size for that as well. Oh, and did I forget to mention the Well of Eternity portal, which while not big enough for Sargeras' body, was powerful enough to pull the Dark Titan in? Can also imply size changes there aswell.

But no, the Eternal Ones are only "kEEpEr LevEL", even though Mortals with godly weapons in the physical Universe also can harm a Titan like Sargeras, albeit a small one, but still. I have no reason to believe weapons/armor from outside reality itself, and in divine/mysterious planes of existence such as the Shadowlands, are merely "keeper" tiers of power. You're weird asf if you believe otherwise, especially considering the fact that each Pantheon is practically relative to one-another.

[tommyhil622]

Here's my head canon: The realms (Ardenweald etc) ARE the Eternal ones. The Winter Queen is just an avatar. She IS Ardenweald.

Unfortunately it gets weird when its said that the Winter Queen created Ardenweald. Would be a loop if your head canon is true. BUT, in essence i think they are interracially linked. Ardenweald can't survive without the Winter Queen. So there's some truth to what you're saying, but i don't think that applies to every realm.

[TheFirstOnes]

"What followed was a duel between the champion of the aldrachi and the lord of the Burning Legion. The gathered Legion host watched with rapt attention as Sargeras dueled with Toranaar. The Dark Titan could have simply annihilated his foe at any moment, but he did not seek to destroy Toranaar, but to corrupt him. For days, Sargeras battered the aldrachi with just enough force to wear him down. Toranaar recognized Sargeras' ploy and knew that he could not best the Legion's ruler in combat. Thus, he decided on one final act of defiance by feigning submission. When Sargeras let his guard down, Toranaar struck, his warblades ripping through the titan's hide and drawing his molten blood. Though it was only a minor injury, the other aldrachi howled in triumph" Though Sargeras let his guard down, the battle still lasted for days, albeit Sargeras did not want to kill him, but corrupt him. Still, the fact someone like Toranaar was able to hold his own against Sargeras for a bit should tell you that Titans aren't fucking omnipotent beings that can slap tf outta everyone.

Yeah, Planetary creation is cool and all, but that's not only a downplay to the Titans, but it's also a downplay to tons of other WoW characters as well. For some reason, in this community, if you're not "SHOWN TO DESTROY A PLANET", you're "not titan level", which is just plainly false.

[A Chozo]

Yeah, Pebrocks is right, OP's post is full of speculation / headcanon.

It's been established that the Titans can change sizes (at will or not) - Sargeras attacking our planet VS Sargeras chained at the Seat of the Pantheon, for example. The Eternal Ones have no official connection to the Titans so far - aside from some overwhelmingly loose power comparisons, but that's it. Not everything is Dragon Ball were you can measure people by their Power alone, and there's nothing in WoW saying that size and power are parallel.

They aren't definitely related to the Titans, they are only comparable. The Winter Queen's sister wasn't even revealed, there's only speculation. Could be Elune, could be Eonar, could totally be someone else that Blizzard may manifest from nowhere for some future storyline.

[Varodoc]

Why not use the time where the leader of the Aldrachi, Toranaar, initiated a duel with Sargeras and actually managed to deal a blow to the Dark Titan? Sure, it was a small blow, but it was still a blow. Sargeras probably changed his size for that as well. Oh, and did I forget to mention the Well of Eternity portal, which while not big enough for Sargeras' body, was powerful enough to pull the Dark Titan in? Can also imply size changes there aswell.

But no, the Eternal Ones are only "kEEpEr LevEL", even though Mortals with godly weapons in the physical Universe also can harm a Titan like Sargeras, albeit a small one, but still. I have no reason to believe weapons/armor from outside reality itself, and in divine/mysterious planes of existence such as the Shadowlands, are merely "keeper" tiers of power. You're weird asf if you believe otherwise, especially considering the fact that each Pantheon is practically relative to one-another.

I have no idea what you're talking about in the second paragraph, so I'll only answer to your first one. Because, as far as I know, there's no actual picture of Sargeras dueling the aldrachi or being pulled by the Well of Eternity, and I wanted to use pictures.

[TheFirstOnes]

Unfortunately it gets weird when its said that the Winter Queen created Ardenweald. Would be a loop if your head canon is true. BUT, in essence i think they are interracially linked. Ardenweald can't survive without the Winter Queen. So there's some truth to what you're saying, but i don't think that applies to every realm.

It's not true anyway, as the Oribos cinematic regarding Denathrius and the other Pantheon of Death legit refers to them as "Eternal Ones".

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I have no idea what you're talking about in the second paragraph, so I'll only answer to your first one. Because, as far as I know, there's no actual picture of Sargeras dueling the aldrachi or pulled by the Well of Eternity, and I wanted to use pictures.

I wasn't referring to you in the second paragraph, so don't worry about that. But yeah, I do wish we got pictures of those. Sucks the Aldrachi duel was only in the Artifact knowledge thing from Legion, and the Well of Eternity wasn't fully realized yet, considering the plot failed anyway.

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Yeah, Pebrocks is right, OP's post is full of speculation / headcanon.

It's been established that the Titans can change sizes (at will or not) - Sargeras attacking our planet VS Sargeras chained at the Seat of the Pantheon, for example. The Eternal Ones have no official connection to the Titans so far - aside from some overwhelmingly loose power comparisons, but that's it. Not everything is Dragon Ball were you can measure people by their Power alone, and there's nothing in WoW saying that size and power are parallel.

They aren't definitely related to the Titans, they are only comparable. The Winter Queen's sister wasn't even revealed, there's only speculation. Could be Elune, could be Eonar, could totally be someone else that Blizzard may manifest from nowhere for some future storyline.

"The Eternal Ones have no official connection to the Titans so far - aside from some overwhelmingly loose power comparisons, but that's it" At most, we know they're the Pantheon of Death, the same way the Titans are the Pantheon of Order, or how the Void Lords are the Pantheon of Shadow, etc.

"The Winter Queen's sister wasn't even revealed, there's only speculation. Could be Elune, could be Eonar, could totally be someone else that Blizzard may manifest from nowhere for some future storyline" There is a legendary called "The memory of Eonar" which can be found in Ardenweald by a quartermaster of the Wild Hunt. So, that can imply some things also.

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I agree with everything else, though. Also, Sargeras battled the Pantheon on Nihilam, which was a planet in the Great Dark.

[Pandragon]

It would be awkward to have cutscenes with the player character talking to Eternals that are the size of a planet. It's like what happened with the Old Gods

This. Imagine your character meeting the Archon and youre just talking to a giant blue toe.

[Soikona]

"What followed was a duel between the champion of the aldrachi and the lord of the Burning Legion. The gathered Legion host watched with rapt attention as Sargeras dueled with Toranaar. The Dark Titan could have simply annihilated his foe at any moment, but he did not seek to destroy Toranaar, but to corrupt him. For days, Sargeras battered the aldrachi with just enough force to wear him down. Toranaar recognized Sargeras' ploy and knew that he could not best the Legion's ruler in combat. Thus, he decided on one final act of defiance by feigning submission. When Sargeras let his guard down, Toranaar struck, his warblades ripping through the titan's hide and drawing his molten blood. Though it was only a minor injury, the other aldrachi howled in triumph" Though Sargeras let his guard down, the battle still lasted for days, albeit Sargeras did not want to kill him, but corrupt him. Still, the fact someone like Toranaar was able to hold his own against Sargeras for a bit should tell you that Titans aren't fucking omnipotent beings that can slap tf outta everyone.

Yeah, Planetary creation is cool and all, but that's not only a downplay to the Titans, but it's also a downplay to tons of other WoW characters as well. For some reason, in this community, if you're not "SHOWN TO DESTROY A PLANET", you're "not titan level", which is just plainly false.

You contract yourself. You say that sargeras holds himself back, so Toranaar doesn’t “hold his own”. He was toyed with. So which is it? It can’t be both.

[TheFirstOnes]

You contract yourself. You say that sargeras holds himself back, so Toranaar doesn’t “hold his own”. He was toyed with. So which is it? It can’t be both.

Holding his own doesn't have to mean "rivaling" Sargeras in power. Just means you're capable of taking his attacks, all while being capable of clashing with the Dark Titan. Sargeras still got hit, though with his guard down. But it means he's not at all invincible.

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This. Imagine your character meeting the Archon and youre just talking to a giant blue toe.

lol true

Then again, when we met the Titans, even though they were spirits, they were still practically the size they would be if they were alive, as their seat is not planetary, which could only further imply that they're capable of changing sizes with ease. It's very similar to how we met the Archon, or the Winter Queen tbh.

[Unholyground]

Unfortunately it gets weird when its said that the Winter Queen created Ardenweald. Would be a loop if your head canon is true. BUT, in essence i think they are interracially linked. Ardenweald can't survive without the Winter Queen. So there's some truth to what you're saying, but i don't think that applies to every realm.

Well it has been confirmed that the Emerald Dream is directly connected to Ardenweald so it is more than likely they are just titan level of power with Zovaal being something other than titan altogether which they called Titan ++ for power. My guess is Zovaal might be the daddy of all Titans.

[TheFirstOnes]

Well it has been confirmed that the Emerald Dream is directly connected to Ardenweald so it is more than likely they are just titan level of power with Zovaal being something other than titan altogether which they called Titan ++ for power. My guess is Zovaal might be the daddy of all Titans.

Doubt Zovaal is the "daddy of titans". Reminder, Sargeras is basically Titan+ level as well, and that's due to the Fel. The Jailer is probably a similar case, thanks to the massive supply of Anima he's eating up right now.

Also, didn't you hear? Apparently, the Pantheon of Death are Keeper level cause a single interview from an offbrand site said so, even tho WoWhead has similar interviews contradicting that statement, as well as the fact that Blizzard outright stated "After Argus, if the next threat isn't Titan Level, then it ain't shit".

Not to mention The Pantheon of Death are legit the Death version of the Titans and their Pantheon, as well as the fact that beings such as the Jailer and the Arbiter predate Reality itself, including the Titans. So, it may stand to reason that the Titans, as well as the Pantheon of Death and co are about the same age.

[Unholyground]

Doubt Zovaal is the "daddy of titans". Reminder, Sargeras is basically Titan+ level as well, and that's due to the Fel. The Jailer is probably a similar case, thanks to the massive supply of Anima he's eating up right now.

Also, didn't you hear? Apparently, the Pantheon of Death are Keeper level cause a single interview from an offbrand site said so, even tho WoWhead has similar interviews contradicting that statement, as well as the fact that Blizzard outright stated "After Argus, if the next threat isn't Titan Level, then it ain't shit".

Not to mention The Pantheon of Death are legit the Death version of the Titans and their Pantheon, as well as the fact that beings such as the Jailer and the Arbiter predate Reality itself, including the Titans. So, it may stand to reason that the Titans, as well as the Pantheon of Death and co are about the same age.

Still doesn't mean Zovaal isn't the daddy of all titans his story is clearly mirroring Kronos form mythology so it is kind of a hint he has something to do with Titan origins.

[TheFirstOnes]

Still doesn't mean Zovaal isn't the daddy of all titans his story is clearly mirroring Kronos form mythology so it is kind of a hint he has something to do with Titan origins.

How is it mirroring Kronos' story at all?

[Unholyground]

How is it mirroring Kronos' story at all?

He was imprisoned in Tartarus by Zeus, sounds a hell of a lot like what is going on, of course it will have some kind of WoW twist.

[Nathreim]

Hey everyone, its been established in the lore that the size of the titans are as big as planets or something like that correct?

The ones we see in Legion expansion are not in their original bodies because Sargeras killed them correct?

But what about the eternal ones? why their size are similar to the titans at the end of legion expansion?

The titans are the pantheon of order, the eternal ones (Winter Queen, Zovaal, Denathrius, etc, etc) are the pantheon of death correct? so they are suppose to be similar in powers but somehow their size are much smaller? specially after the confirmation of the winter queen being a sister to certain someone ? they are definately related to the titans.

Titans can change their size. Thats how Sargeras could use the well of eternity as a portal despite it being tiny when compared to his form in Legion.

[TheFirstOnes]

Also, regarding the whole "keeper" level shit, I highly doubt Blizzard would want the Pantheon of Death to be merely that powerful anyway, considering the last 2 expansions, we fought Odyn: The Prime Designate of the Keepers, at full power and managed to outclass him and prove ourselves worthy of defeating Helya at Hellheim, as well as a N'Zoth empowered Ra'den at Ny'alotha, who is probably much stronger than he was back in MoP. I mean, would make sense, as Void corruption can amp up things of Order by a MILE! For example: A potential Void Titan, or...well...Deathwing lol.

I mean, reaching Titan levels of power is clearly the next logical step, as in Legion, with all the help we could get, we smacked a Sargeras and Death empowered tormented World Soul, and in BFA, we used the power of Azeroth herself + the Titan reorigination device to destroy N'Zoth, who was the last remaining Old God on Azeroth, and held full control over the Black Empire.

[Soikona]

Holding his own doesn't have to mean "rivaling" Sargeras in power. Just means you're capable of taking his attacks, all while being capable of clashing with the Dark Titan. Sargeras still got hit, though with his guard down. But it means he's not at all invincible.

But sargeras held back, to not kill him, so that he can take his attacks. You are still contradicting yourself.

[Yamuri]

I assume they can change their size. Considering Argus was the size of Odyn. We could also go the route of size is just retconned for everything and just fits its own gameplay prerogative like human raid bosses being 3x the size of players.

[Ealyssa]

Titans don't need a real body, they are made of pure energy



Basically gigantic sentient arcane dust clouds who can modulate their size as needed (most likely with a limit, I don't think they can shrink to human or even giant size but I'm just guessing)

Their "standard size" is most likely just the most convenient for planet shaping aliens. So they can literally shape the planets they visit with their hands.