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  1. #141
    its just that some bosses either require maximum focus in the case of patchwork, with this gear, aq40 gear and t2, its balanced, with buffs you end up with more than enough stats but you only get 1 try like that, but your healers still need to be on the ball and the RNG is tight. same for heigan that I saw, a lot of ppl fail at the dance or run to p1 too soon, some ppl were claiming the thing was lagging while they had 30ms. I managed to do it but the eye beam room fucked me a couple of times as ppl didn't go together and just got melted by the eyes.

    in otherwords the bosses are mechanically easy but its not forgiving in the sense that you can fail and survive it. some of the bosses are a lot easier than others the world buffs do allow you to crush some of them before attrition/mechanics becomes a problem. but the instance is long enough so that the buffs won't last for most ppl. forcing you to do some of them with what you have.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2020-12-05 at 07:04 PM.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Thaddeus with 40 people that haven't done it before will be a real shitshow.

    In WotLK with 10/25 people you have a little leeway, but with 40 it gives your raid so many more chances to fail hilariously at polarity shifts.
    For the life of me, I still don't know how people fail polarity... it's not like the mechanic has been in raids recently... oh wait. That said, its a good mechanic to include as it tells you who pays attention and who doesn't.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  3. #143
    People make the same old same old, tired as hell straw-men arguments about the ease of Vanilla.

    While true, it wasn't this massively impossible hill to climb.. Save a few guilds.. But the fact is that Vanilla WAS challenging. Just like TBC WAS challenging.. Just like WotLK, was almost challenging.. etc.

    The problem is that after 15yrs, multiple things have changed. We now have weakauras, and people who can write auras so good that they almost play the game (vanilla did not have that kind of addon support). You have practice. Guilds, in some cases, have been playing on the private servers since they launched. They have, even just from boredom, memorized the entire set of what COULD be done in NAXX to the point of second-nature.

    Which all of this is a long way of saying that: It was a solved problem, and the tools available now DWARF anything that was available back then.

    People can seriously chillout with the rhetoric now.
    "When you build it, you love it!"

  4. #144
    Brewmaster Outofmana's Avatar
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    Vanilla is mostly about speedrunning anyway, and 'progression' night race is always gonna be about speed and the difficulty of executing everything in the instance including trash faster than others, not difficulty of encounters. You might have to look at wow classic the same way as people look at Goldeneye speedruns these days, it's all about speed competitions, as in most old, or easy, games now. The difficulty lies in the competition with others, doing skips, pot ussage etc etc, coming up with stuff to skip or zerg down, whatever. If you pull the maximum you can handle, guess that makes trash more difficult than the actual bosses. It's a different kind of progression, but that doesn't make it any less of a proper competition. If 100000 people suddenly started competing and trying to dickslap the most total strangers on the streets in the face until arrested, it would still be hard to be the #1 in this particular competition.

    Oh well, had a kind of chill night wiping 10mins in because no one in the raid someone spoke up when we skipped a belcher which then added the entire slime room during Patchwerk . Actually enjoyed our laid back naxx because of it, doubt I would've had the race continued, as people were stressed out to the max in the start. The next day felt a bit shit about not having the rush of 'competing' or setting a good standing, but alas, it's done. And doing naxx calmly was super enjoyable

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Naraga View Post
    The best players and guilds in the world, who practised the fights for years on private servers, who practised this specific build for weeks on the PTR, went in and all wiped multiples times except for a single guild.

    If you let people practice the retail fights for a month straight they would oneshot everything with no issues. For me this confirms Naxx is harder than retail.
    I hope you realize that with regards to retail guilds practice every single encounter sans maybe the last on beta servers hundreds of times before it is released, and then still take tons of attempts to kill bosses. Naxx has less mechanics than retail dungeons currently.

  6. #146
    Who are the best streamers for following progression?

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by HailToTheKing View Post
    "Naxx 40 is the hardest raid in the entire game" btw.

    Vanilla was never hard. People just had shit gear and shit computers.
    "High school Applied Calculus is the hardest subject in 9th grade" btw

    High school Mathematics was never hard. People were just 14 years old and weren't 30 with Bachelor's & Master's degrees, having done Derivatives, Integrals, Double Integrals, non-real numbers (or fantastical, depending where you're from), modelling and advanced statistics for 5 years straight.
    Last edited by Dalinos; 2020-12-06 at 04:01 AM.

  8. #148
    What to enjoy to watch, old vanilla with known tactics or retail with a bunch of ppl just pressing whatever key lights up on their keybar hmm...
    Killing alliance APES all day on Gehennas

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanu View Post
    pretty sure some people never learn... how many time must old content be crushed before you accept the reality in front of you? it's not hard, people are pissing all over it

    classic content is getting DESTROYED the moment the doors open and always someone says ' ok that doesn't count because -insert X excuse- wait till the next one and you'll see', well no i won't see, it's piss poor easy and that's all

    the said that when ragnaros was killed by 58 lvl in greens - you need fire resist gear my ass..., 'BWL is not going to fall so easy!', yeah right, BWL gets farmed day 1, 'oh wait to see, 4H, nothing like you retail noobs have ever seen!' - Nax doesn't last for 2 hrs...

    Tha's all folks, nothing more to see
    ye.. We all knew it when blizzard revealed they would use 1.12 data. Its no where near authentic.

    For anyone willing to argue. Name one worldfirst bosskill that happened during 1.12.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    What to enjoy to watch, old vanilla with known tactics or retail with a bunch of ppl just pressing whatever key lights up on their keybar hmm...
    What to enjoy to watch, retail with exciting tactics or classic with a bunch of people just pressing one button rotations on the keybar hmm...

    Basically what you said is just as ridiculous as what I said, simply neither statement is true but a sly dig in the cLaSsIc/ReTaIl sucks bs on mmo-c forums.

  11. #151
    One of the most basic rules in History is "Never judge the past through the lens of today". How about we analyse historical data with honesty & good intentions, and agree that the fact Kel'Thuzad survived EIGHTY DAYS from Naxx-40 release till the day he was killed is a pretty big feat for a WoW raid boss?

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    This thread is fun.

    Everyone NOT raiding Naxx is saying how piss easy it is.

    Everyone actually raiding Naxx is saying how hard it is.
    On top guild in our small server. We took 5hr to clear AQ40 first week, 2nd week 2h, fastest was 43min clear recently.
    We've NEVER struggled on any bosses. Maybe 1-2 wipes max ever.
    Naxx is fucking brutal. Some bosses are still piss easy but the hard bosses are genuinely hard.
    8hours in and we're 12/15.

  13. #153
    Umm...8 hours in and being 12/15 is still not quite hard in the sense that modern raid encounters are hard lol.

    I'm not as invested in the dead horse holy war of classic was/wasn't hard (dunning-kruger) but yah you've basically got it on farm week one. Sure there are bosses that are more punishing of a mistake, but now you're getting ~40 pieces of the best loot in the game thrown your way per week so it's not even going to take as long in the future.
    17 hazed on the Golemagg "cinematic": https://i.imgur.com/nlZM3cj.jpg

  14. #154
    It's shockingly harder than Ahn'qiraj, which was very easy. Take that for what it's worth.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Umm...8 hours in and being 12/15 is still not quite hard in the sense that modern raid encounters are hard lol.

    I'm not as invested in the dead horse holy war of classic was/wasn't hard (dunning-kruger) but yah you've basically got it on farm week one. Sure there are bosses that are more punishing of a mistake, but now you're getting ~40 pieces of the best loot in the game thrown your way per week so it's not even going to take as long in the future.
    I'm looking at this vid where a guild cleared it in less than 90 mins. Seems pretty easy compared to other "most difficult expac raids"

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Ten15 View Post
    I'm looking at this vid where a guild cleared it in less than 90 mins. Seems pretty easy compared to other "most difficult expac raids"
    Ofcourse it "seems pretty easy" when nobody ever dies. For the record, that guild has been clearing this raid weekly for several years on private servers. Every single one of them always knows exactly what to do, and they spend way more time preparing for raids with overstacked consumables and worldbuffs than they spend raiding. It's no different than watching a guild on retail speed-clearing a current raid for the 50th time just before expansion ends.

    Is there actually ANY non-private server guilds that have cleared Naxx yet? I wonder...

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    Ofcourse it "seems pretty easy" when nobody ever dies. For the record, that guild has been clearing this raid weekly for several years on private servers. Every single one of them always knows exactly what to do, and they spend way more time preparing for raids with overstacked consumables and worldbuffs than they spend raiding. It's no different than watching a guild on retail speed-clearing a current raid for the 50th time just before expansion ends.

    Is there actually ANY non-private server guilds that have cleared Naxx yet? I wonder...
    <Be Nice> on Kirtonos killed KT tonight, we are now 4th Horde Guild in US to do so. I don't believe we have any raiders that were private server players any more. Maybe 1-2? It took tons of hours of practice, research, and lots of raid time with massive consumables. In the end we were able to pull off incredibly clean 4H, Saph, and KT kills. The replays are just gorgeous. To all those saying it's easy, when did you finish your clear? This raid felt like Vanillla for the first time in Classic.


    (Edit- Post count, Nice)

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Runzlikegirl View Post
    <Be Nice> on Kirtonos killed KT tonight, we are now 4th Horde Guild in US to do so. I don't believe we have any raiders that were private server players any more. Maybe 1-2? It took tons of hours of practice, research, and lots of raid time with massive consumables. In the end we were able to pull off incredibly clean 4H, Saph, and KT kills. The replays are just gorgeous. To all those saying it's easy, when did you finish your clear? This raid felt like Vanillla for the first time in Classic.


    (Edit- Post count, Nice)
    I agree, I've been waiting forever to try out the real Naxx and it was worth the wait. I don't think AQ40 lived up to the hype but this place certainly did. The raid at times is very unforgiving... the tank running too slowly from Anub is a wipe. Priests not coordinating their mind controls well enough on Razuvious can be a wipe, pulling an extra pack of gargs can be a wipe..... it's definitely got a much different feel from the raids of today, but IMO it's got plenty of challenge. Very fun place, and definitely has a lot of challenge in it.

  19. #159
    the era of " wow is too easy today LUL its made for babies, i raided in naxx and it was like totally the hardest the games ever been" wow forum posters is over

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    the era of " wow is too easy today LUL its made for babies, i raided in naxx and it was like totally the hardest the games ever been" wow forum posters is over
    It's funny because all the players in this thread whom actually are raiding Naxx right now is saying it's actually hard.

    Nobody in here saying it's easy are even playing Classic.

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