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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    No one's even talking about the 18 warriors.

    'Muh hybrid tax' was always a meme for seething warlocks
    There's a reason they moved somewhat away from it in TBC, and completely forgot about the concept in Wrath. Hybrid tax was just an excuse to force healing capable classes to heal.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

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  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Oops that didn't take long now did it.
    Huh? I've always known that classic endgame will be easy since I played a lot on private servers back in the day, so it never really mattered to me. (though I'd prefer if they used custom boss tuning to make the raids harder). But Naxxramas seems to be somewhat challenging since people are wiping and only clearing a couple of bosses here and there per night instead of steamrolling and oneshotting everything (except for the most hardcore guilds, of course).

    Still, whatever the case may be, Classic as a whole is so much more fun than anything current WoW came out with after Ulduar. Also raiding is not all there is to the game, and classic is harder than retail in all other aspects except mythic raiding . Yes, mythics are harder but does that make the game fun? I don't think so.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    Didn't a few of the top guilds completely give up on reclearing Ghuun too? Probably just gave up because they were so easy that it was boring their members.
    A lot guilds did skip farming them but it also has to do with the fact that Jaina and especially G'huun had absolute trash loot.
    Not to mention that most guilds played G'huun on their first kill with four warlocks and didn't want to
    (1) Bring four warlocks just to farm a boss that drops trash loot
    (2) Relearn the fight with at least two locks to farm a boss that drops trash loot

    Jaina was also a huge pain to farm because of how RNG could fuck you over in P2 / P3, having Icefall happening during the Blizzard (when your sight was obstructed) and it spawning right under your raid was sure as shit entertaining.
    It was later fixed, but could absolutely happen during farm.

    Difficulty is one thing, but difficulty combined with extraordinary class requirements even on farm or RNG for just shit loot makes people skip those bosses.

    It quite frankly reflects on the weird juxtaposition of WoW currently, Final Bosses in Classic are completely easy but drop loot that makes people lose their marbles, Mythic Retail has extremely difficult Final Bosses but their loot is utterly boring.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    There's a reason they moved somewhat away from it in TBC, and completely forgot about the concept in Wrath. Hybrid tax was just an excuse to force healing capable classes to heal.
    They actually admitted that the Hybrid tax was kept around until MoP (or rather removed with WoD).

    Not to mention, in TBC, the "hybrid tax" was compensated by having powerful support tools.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-12-05 at 01:39 AM.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    I actually disagree with this. Put some mid tier guild on a bfa private server and have them spend a year clearing Nya and they could probably do it in sub 2 hours and that's without the stupidness that is stacked world buffs and half the raid being max geared warriors. For the time vanilla absolutely had hard raid content but the game has been ripped apart over nearly a decade to basically create perfect optimization. Yeah it's not hard if you have conditions present that were never present in the actual game but this isn't the actual game.

    If you gave them all their maxed out socketed corrupted gear and all the nerfs then sure.

    You could let them practice 10 years though and they wouldn't even make it to N'zoth with the gear people had on week 1.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by lortsy12 View Post
    Huh? I've always known that classic endgame will be easy since I played a lot on private servers back in the day, so it never really mattered to me. (though I'd prefer if they used custom boss tuning to make the raids harder). But Naxxramas seems to be somewhat challenging since people are wiping and only clearing a couple of bosses here and there per night instead of steamrolling and oneshotting everything (except for the most hardcore guilds, of course).

    Still, whatever the case may be, Classic as a whole is so much more fun than anything current WoW came out with after Ulduar. Also raiding is not all there is to the game, and classic is harder than retail in all other aspects except mythic raiding . Yes, mythics are harder but does that make the game fun? I don't think so.
    Lol wut? Nothing in classic is even harder than normal raids and heroic dungeons in Wow. Also, my point was that you're just one of the many clamoring for TBC as soon as Classic has put everything out. When in the past many of the 'classic diehards' insisted this wasn't about getting anything besides Classic.

  6. #126
    Naxx is crushing casual guilds far harder than AQ40. Going to be a ton of burnout with just how long the raid is + holidays coming up.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Except for Defias Pillagers... those bastards are dangerous.
    The guys by the duskwood farms? Hah, they aren't actually "dangerous", but I can let you in on an interesting little secret I discovered:

    Ever wonder why you always seem to end up fighting multiple of them no matter how hard you try to only get 1? Can't remember why, but way back in TBC I ended up in duskwood farming for something on my boomkin (can't remember what) who could 1 shot them with moonfire, and discovered that mobs like those guys are actually coded to "fill in spaces".

    Basically for whatever reason, I was killing them, and I noticed that if (for example) there were 3 of them in the house, and 3 or 4 around the house, that if I killed one of the ones outside, after 30 seconds or so, one of the ones inside would move outside and take up space where the guy I killed had been standing. You could actually kill 90% of the mobs around the house on the EXACT same spot by just killing one, waiting for someone to move over to where he had been, then killing that one, and so on.

    I came to the conclusion that there was some kind of coded behaviour that probably triggered as soon as you engaged one of them that would cause another one to come over to the spawn location of the first after a certain amount of time had passed. Which would go a long way to explaining why they sometimes seemed to just keep coming if you didn't kill them fast enough.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    The guys by the duskwood farms? Hah, they aren't actually "dangerous", but I can let you in on an interesting little secret I discovered:

    Ever wonder why you always seem to end up fighting multiple of them no matter how hard you try to only get 1? Can't remember why, but way back in TBC I ended up in duskwood farming for something on my boomkin (can't remember what) who could 1 shot them with moonfire, and discovered that mobs like those guys are actually coded to "fill in spaces".

    Basically for whatever reason, I was killing them, and I noticed that if (for example) there were 3 of them in the house, and 3 or 4 around the house, that if I killed one of the ones outside, after 30 seconds or so, one of the ones inside would move outside and take up space where the guy I killed had been standing. You could actually kill 90% of the mobs around the house on the EXACT same spot by just killing one, waiting for someone to move over to where he had been, then killing that one, and so on.

    I came to the conclusion that there was some kind of coded behaviour that probably triggered as soon as you engaged one of them that would cause another one to come over to the spawn location of the first after a certain amount of time had passed. Which would go a long way to explaining why they sometimes seemed to just keep coming if you didn't kill them fast enough.
    defias pillagers are the casters in westfall

    dunno why you wrote all that horseshit

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    It litterally hurts to see how fast progress cleared that. JESUS some of the pulls, and no deaths. Back when I did a few of the bosses (guild never got to far, IIRC 5 bosses down) strategies were needed. Also the hole...tanks needs like tier3 set bonus to tank 4-horsemen or w/e...
    It was as easy back then as it is now.
    Players just sucked.

  10. #130
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    I just literally died laughing when the post was made on the 1st and the first clear was at the top of page 2 at like 1.5hrs after the raid was opened.

    Tbh, I used to straight shit on people but the game literally just killed itself for classic players.

    I was really hoping the raid would give people a little trouble but pretty much everyone can clear it.. yikes

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by OrcsRLame View Post
    If you gave them all their maxed out socketed corrupted gear and all the nerfs then sure.

    You could let them practice 10 years though and they wouldn't even make it to N'zoth with the gear people had on week 1.
    You're right it's actually funny seeing people try to compare pre-nerf mythic nya'lotha with classic raids. Yeah people go ahead practise 10 years, then go into naxx with zero corruptions and weak ass ilvl and clear the raid + kill N'zoth in 1.5 hours? Yeah? You can't? You need to wait 3 months for gear (remember no corruption vendor) like every other decent guild? I thought so.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    >"Wait for Naxx, the REAL challenging raid"

    >Raid cleared in 85 minutes

    >"Nobody expected this to be challenging!"
    Go figure, a bunch of guilds that have cleared the content on private servers in 2 hours cleared it in 2 hours on classic. I'm shocked.

    The normal playerbase won't be so fortunate.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    The guys by the duskwood farms? Hah, they aren't actually "dangerous", but I can let you in on an interesting little secret I discovered:

    Ever wonder why you always seem to end up fighting multiple of them no matter how hard you try to only get 1? Can't remember why, but way back in TBC I ended up in duskwood farming for something on my boomkin (can't remember what) who could 1 shot them with moonfire, and discovered that mobs like those guys are actually coded to "fill in spaces".

    Basically for whatever reason, I was killing them, and I noticed that if (for example) there were 3 of them in the house, and 3 or 4 around the house, that if I killed one of the ones outside, after 30 seconds or so, one of the ones inside would move outside and take up space where the guy I killed had been standing. You could actually kill 90% of the mobs around the house on the EXACT same spot by just killing one, waiting for someone to move over to where he had been, then killing that one, and so on.

    I came to the conclusion that there was some kind of coded behaviour that probably triggered as soon as you engaged one of them that would cause another one to come over to the spawn location of the first after a certain amount of time had passed. Which would go a long way to explaining why they sometimes seemed to just keep coming if you didn't kill them fast enough.
    the pillagers are the ones in Westfall, their fireballs hit for 60-90, when you only have about 250-400 hp

  14. #134
    I wish I got to do some Naxx. I stopped in Classic a long time ago. I would totally be pumped to see these two weapons:

    https://classic.wowhead.com/item=22691/corrupted-ashbringer

    https://classic.wowhead.com/item=225...f-the-guardian

    Unfortunately I was never a huge supporter of Classic. I love the idea of Retail getting a bunch of new timewalking items and we definitely need Classic timewalking to be thrown into the mix. Still it would've been neat to be apart of it all and I hope people has a blast doing Naxx.

  15. #135
    This thread is fun.

    Everyone NOT raiding Naxx is saying how piss easy it is.

    Everyone actually raiding Naxx is saying how hard it is.

  16. #136
    its just that some bosses either require maximum focus in the case of patchwork, with this gear, aq40 gear and t2, its balanced, with buffs you end up with more than enough stats but you only get 1 try like that, but your healers still need to be on the ball and the RNG is tight. same for heigan that I saw, a lot of ppl fail at the dance or run to p1 too soon, some ppl were claiming the thing was lagging while they had 30ms. I managed to do it but the eye beam room fucked me a couple of times as ppl didn't go together and just got melted by the eyes.

    in otherwords the bosses are mechanically easy but its not forgiving in the sense that you can fail and survive it. some of the bosses are a lot easier than others the world buffs do allow you to crush some of them before attrition/mechanics becomes a problem. but the instance is long enough so that the buffs won't last for most ppl. forcing you to do some of them with what you have.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2020-12-05 at 07:04 PM.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Thaddeus with 40 people that haven't done it before will be a real shitshow.

    In WotLK with 10/25 people you have a little leeway, but with 40 it gives your raid so many more chances to fail hilariously at polarity shifts.
    For the life of me, I still don't know how people fail polarity... it's not like the mechanic has been in raids recently... oh wait. That said, its a good mechanic to include as it tells you who pays attention and who doesn't.
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  18. #138
    Bloodsail Admiral bowchikabow's Avatar
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    People make the same old same old, tired as hell straw-men arguments about the ease of Vanilla.

    While true, it wasn't this massively impossible hill to climb.. Save a few guilds.. But the fact is that Vanilla WAS challenging. Just like TBC WAS challenging.. Just like WotLK, was almost challenging.. etc.

    The problem is that after 15yrs, multiple things have changed. We now have weakauras, and people who can write auras so good that they almost play the game (vanilla did not have that kind of addon support). You have practice. Guilds, in some cases, have been playing on the private servers since they launched. They have, even just from boredom, memorized the entire set of what COULD be done in NAXX to the point of second-nature.

    Which all of this is a long way of saying that: It was a solved problem, and the tools available now DWARF anything that was available back then.

    People can seriously chillout with the rhetoric now.
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  19. #139
    Brewmaster Outofmana's Avatar
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    Vanilla is mostly about speedrunning anyway, and 'progression' night race is always gonna be about speed and the difficulty of executing everything in the instance including trash faster than others, not difficulty of encounters. You might have to look at wow classic the same way as people look at Goldeneye speedruns these days, it's all about speed competitions, as in most old, or easy, games now. The difficulty lies in the competition with others, doing skips, pot ussage etc etc, coming up with stuff to skip or zerg down, whatever. If you pull the maximum you can handle, guess that makes trash more difficult than the actual bosses. It's a different kind of progression, but that doesn't make it any less of a proper competition. If 100000 people suddenly started competing and trying to dickslap the most total strangers on the streets in the face until arrested, it would still be hard to be the #1 in this particular competition.

    Oh well, had a kind of chill night wiping 10mins in because no one in the raid someone spoke up when we skipped a belcher which then added the entire slime room during Patchwerk . Actually enjoyed our laid back naxx because of it, doubt I would've had the race continued, as people were stressed out to the max in the start. The next day felt a bit shit about not having the rush of 'competing' or setting a good standing, but alas, it's done. And doing naxx calmly was super enjoyable

  20. #140
    Herald of the Titans Maruka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naraga View Post
    The best players and guilds in the world, who practised the fights for years on private servers, who practised this specific build for weeks on the PTR, went in and all wiped multiples times except for a single guild.

    If you let people practice the retail fights for a month straight they would oneshot everything with no issues. For me this confirms Naxx is harder than retail.
    I hope you realize that with regards to retail guilds practice every single encounter sans maybe the last on beta servers hundreds of times before it is released, and then still take tons of attempts to kill bosses. Naxx has less mechanics than retail dungeons currently.

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