Thread: Superman & Lois

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    And yet you can't come up with a single example of why he feels more powerful...

    Eschatological admits that Cavill's Superman is weaker than the other incarnations.
    I did , if you read all I said. Tried to in the best way i could.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    I did , if you read all I said. Tried to in the best way i could.
    No you didn't. You just said that he feels more powerful...but couldn't cite a single of example of him actually being more powerful. Him being more powerful than the rest of the Justice League does not make him more powerful than previous incarnations.
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2020-12-03 at 08:41 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    No you didn't. You just said that he feels more powerful...but couldn't cite a single of example of him actually being more powerful. Him being more powerful than the rest of the Justice League does not make him more powerful than previous incarnations.

    I said so here:
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52849997
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    I know it's weird isn't it, especially when Reeves Superman did more amazing feats, and this Superman actually dies, still, that encounter when the other super heroes try to take him on, he felt like Superman, I d on't know how the director did it, but he did, that guy flet more badass and invincible than all the others.

    Perhaps because he showed it in a reltable way, whereas reversing time and lifting ice islands are a little bit more abstract, and to be fair, you atuomatically associate those things with ALL the Supermans - I don't know what it is, he just feels more invincible than the lot, yet at the same time a vulnerability that makes him feel more real than all of them.

    Can't quite explain it.

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    Yeh.. this. Definitely this.. Nice way of putting it. The others felt almost plastic/fake in comparison

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    I know that's opinion, and how we feel about it is also subjective, but hate the movies all you want, the Cavil superman comes across as the most realistic but also most powerful of the Supermans. HE felt more Superman than any ohter incarnation so far and yet felt more real too without losing any of his vulnerabilities. Eschatological explains it well.
    I've bolded it for you - does that help?


    Dunno what else to say - I quite clearly said I can't explain it, I gave the example that mad me feel or rather captured how powerful he was, a true man of steel. I tried to explain that it is the way the director portrayed him that feels more real and more powerful. And I pointed out Eschatological's comment of how plastic/fake the others felt which is why while they were very powerful, they don't come across quite as well.

    See I attribute the abilities of every superman to every superman, so if Reeves/Routh Superman can lift Islands, so can all the others, it's not the power potential of superman, the comics show him doing many more feats than all the movies and tv shows, but the MoS Cavill Superman in the 4 more movies he appears in comes across as the most powerful and genuine of the lot.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    I said so here:
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52849997

    I've bolded it for you - does that help?


    Dunno what else to say - I quite clearly said I can't explain it, I gave the example that mad me feel or rather captured how powerful he was, a true man of steel. I tried to explain that it is the way the director portrayed him that feels more real and more powerful. And I pointed out Eschatological's comment of how plastic/fake the others felt which is why while they were very powerful, they don't come across quite as well.
    You must have missed my edit.

    Yes, Superman was more powerful than the rest of the Justice League...but that does not make him more powerful than previous incarnations of Superman.

    To cite a specific example: Yes, he was fast enough to see Flash running...but since Flash wasn't running fast enough to reverse the flow of time...Reeves Superman is still faster.

    See I attribute the abilities of every superman to every superman, so if Reeves/Routh Superman can lift Islands, so can all the others, it's not the power potential of superman, the comics show him doing many more feats than all the movies and tv shows, but the MoS Cavill Superman in the 4 more movies he appears in comes across as the most powerful and genuine of the lot.
    If they can all do the same things...than none of them are more powerful...
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2020-12-03 at 09:06 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    You must have missed my edit.

    Yes, Superman was more powerful than the rest of the Justice League...but that does not make him more powerful than previous incarnations of Superman.



    If they can all do the same things...than none of them are more powerful...
    While that's true, I wasn't making a statement on his actual power levels.. I don't know that, he's superman, I just attribute the same power all the tohers have to all the Supermans unless given evidence to the country.

    I specifically said "FELT" more powerful, because that's what it comes across as to me.

    And yes, none of them are more powerful, but the portrayals can FEEL more powerful or more genuine in one incarnation over another. And there is something just that much cooler about the Cavil ones.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    While that's true, I wasn't making a statement on his actual power levels.. I don't know that, he's superman, I just attribute the same power all the tohers have to all the Supermans unless given evidence to the country.

    I specifically said "FELT" more powerful, because that's what it comes across as to me.

    And yes, none of them are more powerful, but the portrayals can FEEL more powerful or more genuine in one incarnation over another. And there is something just that much cooler about the Cavil ones.
    There's no logic to that. If all of them have the exact same power sets...none of them can "feel" more powerful.

    It's also not at all the case...each depiction of Superman is completely separate from the others. They don't share the same feats...because those other versions of Superman never actually did them. Comic Superman, especially Silver age Superman, is way more powerful than any live-action or animated version of the character.

    Now, you saying you liked that version of Superman better because he felt more "real" to you is a different story. That's a subjective opinion. But, objectively, Cavill's Superman was never shown to be as powerful as Reeves/Routh. The Reeves/Routh Superman is based on the Silver Age version of Superman which is the most ridiculously powerful version of Superman.

    This is one of the most powerful (and most ridiculous) things Silverage superman has done:


    None of the Live-action Supermen have ever been even a fraction as powerful.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post

    None of the Live-action Supermen have ever been even a fraction as powerful.
    Always love the silver age stuff. I was expecting the one where he blew out a star, but this one tops that. Thanks for the laugh!

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    There's no logic to that. If all of them have the exact same power sets...none of them can "feel" more powerful.
    It doesn't have to be logical.

    It's based on how they come across to me, and what they evoke or impress on me, - it doesn't need to follow your logic. It's hard to explain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    It's also not at all the case...each depiction of Superman is completely separate from the others. They don't share the same feats...because those other versions of Superman never actually did them. Comic Superman, especially Silver age Superman, is way more powerful than any live-action or animated version of the character.

    Now, you saying you liked that version of Superman better because he felt more "real" to you is a different story. That's a subjective opinion. But, objectively, Cavill's Superman was never shown to be as powerful as Reeves/Routh. The Reeves/Routh Superman is based on the Silver Age version of Superman which is the most ridiculously powerful version of Superman.

    This is one of the most powerful (and most ridiculous) things Silverage superman has done:
    https://i.stack.imgur.com/NUkyo.jpg

    None of the Live-action Supermen have ever been even a fraction as powerful.
    Subjective opinions don't need to be objective or even logical. At the end of the day, none of those supermans are objectively detailed in their strengths and powers, what they do is provided by the plot, as needed, we have no idea how objectively powerful each is.

    So people like me assume what one Superman can do, all supermans can do even if the situation in that particular comic, book or film doesn't replicate the same power or feat. The only exception is if a power is specifically tied to a version of Superman that is intentionally deviated from the norm, then i can localise it.

    Cavil's Superman didn't need to reverse time, I assume he can because Reeves' Superman could. there was nothing to indicate he couldn't. This might not seem objective, but there is no standard meter or rule to measure them and each incarnation is not specifically detailed nor defined.


    At least that's how I view it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SavoirFaire View Post
    Always love the silver age stuff. I was expecting the one where he blew out a star, but this one tops that. Thanks for the laugh!
    It is hilarious though.

    Sayign that, @Egomaniac, some of Silver superman's powers would be unfeasible in a more realistic depiction like the Cavil movies.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    It doesn't have to be logical.

    It's based on how they come across to me, and what they evoke or impress on me, - it doesn't need to follow your logic. It's hard to explain.


    Subjective opinions don't need to be objective or even logical. At the end of the day, none of those supermans are objectively detailed in their strengths and powers, what they do is provided by the plot, as needed, we have no idea how objectively powerful each is.

    So people like me assume what one Superman can do, all supermans can do even if the situation in that particular comic, book or film doesn't replicate the same power or feat. The only exception is if a power is specifically tied to a version of Superman that is intentionally deviated from the norm, then i can localise it.
    all of them deviate from the norm in one way or another... you're just making up reasons for your favourite version to be the most powerful as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SavoirFaire View Post
    Always love the silver age stuff. I was expecting the one where he blew out a star, but this one tops that. Thanks for the laugh!
    Yeah, there's so many to choose from...I like this one because it is just so patently ridiculous. Not only does his sneeze destroy an entire solar system...he also flies all the way to this distant solar system while suppressing that sneeze.
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2020-12-03 at 11:00 PM.

  10. #50
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Zach Snyder is a very big fan of Ayn Rand. And both the Superman and Batman he created are Rand-ian in nature. She has this idea of heroic men who bear responsibility in a very toxic way, and will do anything and everything to remain "heroic," which ends up being a sham and an illusion (not to Rand, but any other objective observer). That Superman let his dad die is very Rand-esque Objectivism. So is Batman's brutal efficiency in killing bad guys.

    ....it's why he totally missed the point of Watchmen when he remade that movie.
    Ugh... I love Man of Steel, it's literally the only Superman-movie that doesn't make me cringe or turn it off during viewing attempts. I love Cavill in the role, and at least 45% of the reason is the personality he brings and not just the rippling muscles and chest hair... *ahem*

    But I HATE the scene where his father died. I. Hate. It. They should've stuck with him dying of a heart attack, something Superman couldn't have saved him from. He could've ran fast enough to save his dad and nobody would've been able to make it out, ffs. Also, Kevin Costner being so cool about imminent, violent death felt really unnatural...
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  11. #51
    The image above is one of the reasons why I never liked Superman.
    Cavill's incarnation brought him down to Earth...humanizing him.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    The image above is one of the reasons why I never liked Superman.
    Cavill's incarnation brought him down to Earth...humanizing him.
    There's nothing human about letting a loved one die when you could easily prevent it. Snyder's version might be less powerful...but he's also less human.

  13. #53
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    There's nothing human about letting a loved one die when you could easily prevent it. Snyder's version might be less powerful...but he's also less human.
    I think the word you're looking for is heroic. Screwing up despite one's physical characteristics is very human.
    ------/-/
    All this talk about Superman and them, no love for Tom Welling, Smallville. CWs hero show before they started dressing up the same show in different costumes.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I'm done with the cw...
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    I’m also done with CW shows.
    Same. Supernatural was the only thing I really cared about after they turned Arrow and the Flash into teenages dramas. Vampire Diaries and the Originals also ended ages ago aswell so yeah.

  15. #55
    And super super Superman can stub a toe and accidentally break the planet in half.
    Or bump into things and crush them...bldgs people...

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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    All this talk about Superman and them, no love for Tom Welling, Smallville. CWs hero show before they started dressing up the same show in different costumes.
    Had I not been busy during most of that timeframe I probably would have watched it. What little I did see...the actor playing Lex Luthor made an impression.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I think the word you're looking for is heroic. Screwing up despite one's physical characteristics is very human.
    He didn't "screw up". He made a deliberate choice not to save his father.

    All this talk about Superman and them, no love for Tom Welling, Smallville. CWs hero show before they started dressing up the same show in different costumes.
    Smallville was just as formulaic as the new CW Superhero shows.
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2020-12-04 at 01:42 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    He didn't "screw up". He made a deliberate choice not to save his father.
    He made a deliberate choice to respect his father's wishes even though it greatly pained him to do so. Why does nobody get this scene right?

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    He made a deliberate choice to respect his father's wishes even though it greatly pained him to do so. Why does nobody get this scene right?
    Because some people want the red shorts back.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    He made a deliberate choice to respect his father's wishes even though it greatly pained him to do so. Why does nobody get this scene right?
    We understand the scene. We think iot's a stupid scene. Clark letting his father die because it protects his secret identity is stupid...whether his father wished it or not. There are things more important than that.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    We understand the scene. We think iot's a stupid scene. Clark letting his father die because it protects his secret identity is stupid...whether his father wished it or not. There are things more important than that.
    Self-sacrifice for the benefit of your adopted son? I don't really think its a stupid scene. Superman only exists on Earth because his birth father also sacrificed himself for the betterment of his son.

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