Superman & Lois

[paxen]

I also heard that the CW are not the only ones involved in doing this show.

They may have gotten some involment, but Berlanti and Helbing are in charge of the show and the writing still. And even if it stands on its own, it's still directly linked to the Arrowverse, both in the story and the actors involved.

I do agree that it hits pretty different from the rest of the Arrowverse though.

- - - Updated - - -

There's a whopping heap of "teen drama" that needs to die. Not the romance stuff, which is honestly better than expected, but the stupid-ass focus on high school sports as if any of that shit actually matters, or petty bullying. When it's framed against supervillainy, it comes off as REALLY fucking dumb. "But moooom, I can't take time off to train my budding superpowers, the big game's on Saturday!" Fuck off, writers, this is dumb and you're dumb for writing it. Every time a Kent kid talks sports, I want to throw something at the screen.

That's kind of the defining trait of teenagers though. Their priorities are all kinds of screwed, and a big part of growing up is learning what actually matters and what's not very important. And can you blame Jordan for thinking that the game against his old bullies in metropolis isn't a big freaking deal? The poor guy has been an outsider and a ball of anxiety all his life, and now he finally has somewhere he feels he belongs. AND an opportunity so show up his old enemies. Hell, *I* would rate that pretty highly. Actually, the entire point of General Lane is to contrast his viewpoint that Superman should save the world 24/7 with Clark & Lois holding on to that he needs some time to itself if he's to function, actually. And that includeds taking his kids to the ball game.

And the show is inching towards landing on their side - a Superman without friends and family might be the single greatest threat the world has ever seen.

I fully agree on the rest of the points. I love the relationship between Jordan and Jonathan, they're under a huge strain but manage to come back to supporting each other every time - so far at least.

[Beloren]

I've been pretty surprised by it myself.

There's a whopping heap of "teen drama" that needs to die. Not the romance stuff, which is honestly better than expected, but the stupid-ass focus on high school sports as if any of that shit actually matters, or petty bullying. When it's framed against supervillainy, it comes off as REALLY fucking dumb. "But moooom, I can't take time off to train my budding superpowers, the big game's on Saturday!" Fuck off, writers, this is dumb and you're dumb for writing it. Every time a Kent kid talks sports, I want to throw something at the screen.

I do like those high school moments, love the contrast - like we have scary villains and world ending plot, , oh and there is football to worry about. i totally got the Kent twin too, who'd been bullied and ostrascized and finally has his chance to fit in, be the star, that's serious temptation of a very real kind, he risks exposing himself, his dad, all to get some attention.. but that attention means everything to him, his self esteem, a lifetime of feeling the outside -

Everything else is pretty great, though. The shift to small town life with an adult, parental Superman is the shift to the character I didn't think we needed. They're making the primary focus of the show seemingly into an exploration of Superman's personal ethics, which is the only way to make the guy interesting. Lois is a powerhouse in her own right, which is necessary for this to work.

They've managed to not make either Kent kid "the bad one". They're both just decent kids. They've got issues, because they're teenagers, but both of them have issues and for reasonable reasons, and it doesn't feel like they're setting up a spin towards EEEVUL for either. You kinda get notes of that early on but they're pretty quickly shot down.

This! So this, it's perhaps what I'm impressed with them the most. Typical CW always does the opposite, and you were expecting it to go according to the typical script. And it wasn't.

Also surprised to see the brotherly love, decent siblings, which is a thing, but almost completely absent from so many shows, it's surprising to see. I thought they'd either make Jonathan a typical high school tv drama arrogant football jock jerk, who'd get super jealous over his bro's powers. Then when they showedt he Jordan initial story, and that he had the powers, I felt they'd make him a hateful, unstable "it's my turn now" guy.

I'm also pretty happy they just casually reference the entire history of Superman canon. "Oh, this is a multiverse thing, we've done alternate universes before" coming out of Lois' mouth is hilarious. Just "catch up, audience, we're not re-explaining concepts that are done to death". With Irons' history and reveal, an interesting take on the multiverse and Superman might be exploring the possibility that it isn't that other Kal-Els in other universes go bad. It's that this universe's Kal-El somehow went good. That he's the exception, and thus special not just in terms of powers but also his sense of ethics and duty, even among alternate versions of himself. That might actually make the character interesting again.

I found that hilarious too, and fully agree with you on this one too, it makes it more watchable to the millions of fans very familiar with the concept. And it's fine for those who aren't, because there has already been enough of it shown and they don't need to know all the other previous events

[Jotaux]

I think its good because its so different. Normally comics and tv shows run as far as they can from the superhero having a family, so they can create relationship drama.

[Sorrowseer]

I hope it continues like this, its been great to watch so far, only minor things I did not like here or there but nothing even worth mentioning. Hope it does keep this quality going.

I do feel really sorry for Jonathan though, whether you like it or not and no matter how hard you try, its gonna eat at you that your sibling got super powers and you, for the time being, did not.

[Endus]

I do feel really sorry for Jonathan though, whether you like it or not and no matter how hard you try, its gonna eat at you that your sibling got super powers and you, for the time being, did not.

I think the last episode set up the best response to the usual "I am so JEALOUS I will turn EVUL" bullshit story arc that results from that kind of thing, which as Lois pointing out she's in the same exact boat and he needs to get over it.

[Beloren]

I think the last episode set up the best response to the usual "I am so JEALOUS I will turn EVUL" bullshit story arc that results from that kind of thing, which as Lois pointing out she's in the same exact boat and he needs to get over it.

mmm, agreed again there Endus, it's nice to see. These shows often fail hard at showing a normal side to superheor, and when they do they have to go OTT like an antsy Teen drama from the CW -- oh wait...

[Sorrowseer]

I think the last episode set up the best response to the usual "I am so JEALOUS I will turn EVUL" bullshit story arc that results from that kind of thing, which as Lois pointing out she's in the same exact boat and he needs to get over it.

Yup one reason I am really liking it, it still shows that it is there and its not a one and done thing though, but I like the way its being handled by the show more than in any other angsty medium I have seen it in before. Really digging the choices the writers are making.

[cface]

I really really like Lois, maybe cause I'm so used by tvshows to show a strong woman as a real fucking bitch every time, that Lois shines more for me.

And the teenage drama isn't that bad either. They're teens after all, I wasn't any better. I still don't get why bullying is such a normal situation in every school, is that just america for you?. We barely had any bullying at the schools I attended as child/teenager.

[ravenmoon]

I really really like Lois, maybe cause I'm so used by tvshows to show a strong woman as a real fucking bitch every time, that Lois shines more for me.

And the teenage drama isn't that bad either. They're teens after all, I wasn't any better. I still don't get why bullying is such a normal situation in every school, is that just america for you?. We barely had any bullying at the schools I attended as child/teenager.

Yeh, I like Lois too, too many wwestern tv shows that show strong women as either men (which i hate) or as bitches (which I also hate). you can be feminine and strong in a different way to your male counterparts. You bring a different set of thigns to the table, that your men can nd need to draw from you, just like you can draw from their attributes to complete your life..

You don't need to be a man to be strong, and you don't need to be a itch/dick to go about it. It's sadly increasingly rarer in our tv shows and movies. Rey in star wars just comes across like a man with a woman's body rather than a strong woman.

[Beloren]

So, I watched episode 1 earlier. It was pretty decent. I can already tell there is going to be plenty of teen drama, but I like the fact we've moved to a time where Superman is well established and his life has progressed to a point where he has kids, rather than regurgitating the same stuff.

Not sure about that end reveal, though.

Also, I'm a sucker for anything with Emmanuelle Chriqui in it.

Keep watching, one of the nice things about this show is how the teen drama is not blown way OTT. I guess it's because the show is centred about Superman's family life more than it is his son successors.

It was pretty bold of them to make them two boys too, instead of a boy and a girl. the way shows have become so blatantly trying to capitalise on current social pressures, i was expecting a twin to be female and she'd be the one with the powers.

The show makes you feel they really don't care about all that stuff. There are plenty good female characters, Lois as well as Lana and her two daughters. We also see black and asian characters, but they don't seem forced, it seems just natural, like you have in a typical school. They also didn't make one of the Kent boys gay.

I don't think there is an LGBTQ character in the show, which is totally normal too, i can totally see that in a couple of families and a small town, there is no major gay character involved to shove down our throat.

ofc if one of the Kent boys turns out bi or actually gay, I would not be bothered AS LONG as the episode or show does not turn into "look how gay he is" , or look how oppressed he is because he's gay or any of that bul. He is a character that happens to fancy his own gender... and he remains a character fully fleshed and defined, not changed to be "there because he's gay".. which is what most shows are doing, which I hate.

[Jotaux]

The drama this episode kind of annoyed me. They should have just had Johnathan call Sarah and tell her that Jordan is sick and was throwing up. Easy solution and keeps people from being suspicious.

[Beloren]

The drama this episode kind of annoyed me. They should have just had Johnathan call Sarah and tell her that Jordan is sick and was throwing up. Easy solution and keeps people from being suspicious.

Forget that.. did you see the big reveal at the end ? ! !! OMG !!!

You mean Morgan Edge is Kal'el's brother!!? WHAT ?! - we of course know he is going to die somehow, but I kinda now wish something differnet owuld happen, as it will be super predictable. just like Supergirl's aunt

Also does anyone find the show a bit scary too, there is a real sense of danger about the plot. But it has a lot of nice bits, not enough to make me feel at ease.

I also like the "later" story of Superman, glad they didn't do a repeat "Lois and Clarke" of Superman's early years, and that Lex Luthor is the past.. so new villain.



I like that they did deviate from the comics, by giving them 2 sons. Instead of one, i'm surprised and refreshed it's actually 2 guys, it bucks the recent trend.. shocked it wasn't 1 guy and a girl or 2 girls.

I thought it was a nice twist that Jordan got the powers... but Jonathan's an incredible character, it's like he's Clarke but without powers - I'm torn, I really really want him to develop powers because it would be awesome if he did, but I also like to explore a bit more the scenario with one twin has, the other doesn't.. so maybe in Season 2 he gets?

I loved how drama over not having powers wasn't blown way out of proportion which is what I totally expected. Sibling drama is something the CW loves over playing in their shows.. Jonathan has human reasons for being jealous and envious to the degree that he'd go evil or naughty at least. I also like how it's Jordan that's a bit unstable, and like that he is not been built into the villain twin either, which was another predictable option 2.. in fact the least predictable (for tv shows) was that they'd both be decent.

I also like how Clarke seems to have genuine troubles, they make him feel a lot more real than his Supergirl counterpart.. more authentic anyway.

Also the effects for superman are really cool, seems a higher level of quality than the usual super hero show. Reminds me a bit of the Synder verse superman though not that good.

[Beloren]

Question:

how is Edge Kal'el's brother? Half brother? Brother but on another Erath? Is it the same Edge from John Irons' Earth that has been crossing over or from another Earth - how do you think this would work? If we follow the man of Steel genesis, it could be that Clarke's mum had the world's usual artificial pregnancy, probably with another partner's seed .. either before she married Clarke's father.. we don't now how they do birth on krypton, but if we follow Man of Steel's version, then it is quite possible there could be many chidlren from different paretns if the genetic mateiral is combine dto actually produce people with the right skill set for pre-determined jobs and roles in society. Since Clarke is a natural presenec, it is possible that he has other siblings in Earth terms. So by Earth family standards, Edge is Clarke's half borther effectively, sharing mom's genetic material.. or the dad's . that depends if Edge's symbol is El or not.


And.. would you like Jonathan to get powers.. if so, how /when? For me, yes, but i think it should happen at the end of season 1, or in a later season, because I like the dynamic he has with Lois. I think it should also be very different.. maybe it appears when he is totally unaware and blacked out...and originally makes it seem like he got X-kryptonite possessed, but it was something else.. or maybe they could use X-krypotonite to awaken Jonathan's powers.. he gets powers because he is possessed, but because he is also half kryptonian, it basically jugs his powers up, so when Jonathan gets exorcised of the kryptonian spirit, and everyone is relieved to see he is back to normal, the scene ends with him realising he actually still has powers, but now is fully himself.. it freaks him out, so he hides it for a long time, pretending to be normal - now that would be AWESOME way to do it. We would get more time with a "normies" dynamic with Lois and Jonathan and actually get the excitement of him getting powers.

i think both twins should end up getting powers, but not at the same time nor in the same way, and there is more to play out on Jonathan not being powered.. i just think that it would be so cool that he has to hide it.. it would almost be reminiscent of when Clarke had to hide his identity.. for a about a season basically only he knows, but at the end of that season, finally someone else gets to know.


other speculation: Would Sara find out Jordan has powers or her dad? I think the more interesting storyline would be she finds out her dad has powers, and it's a very bad thing, then FREAKS out when she discovers Jordan has powers.

[ravenmoon]

What a killer episode this week.

There is one thing this show isn't doing.. and that's dragging things out

Clarke's mum, Edge is half brother - btw. [MENTION=1131682]Beloren[/MENTION], you totally called that correctly, and then all teh super soldier kryptonians vanquished in one fell swoop.. no dramatising over what happened to his mum - although i'd like to find out. Edge says it's not over either, what does he have planned?

Very enjoyable, one of the few shows I look forward to every week. I might even binge watch the entire season again.. something I don't think I've ever done before.

[paxen]

They're running the Evil Twin of the Hero plotline, but I think it looks very promising so far, even if I think that trope is tired and I would have been even happier if they'd gone for something else.

The show really is all about family. Superman's wife, his kids, them as a family, but also Lois and her father, Sarah and her parents, Superman and Jor-el and now Uncle Morgan and his dirtbag of a father.

[ravenmoon]

They're running the Evil Twin of the Hero plotline, but I think it looks very promising so far, even if I think that trope is tired and I would have been even happier if they'd gone for something else.

The show really is all about family. Superman's wife, his kids, them as a family, but also Lois and her father, Sarah and her parents, Superman and Jor-el and now Uncle Morgan and his dirtbag of a father.

I'm thinking that this ends with Clarke talking his brother out of crazy and showing him what real family is.. wanna bet that the end plot will see Morgan do something even more disastrous, but totally soften when he finds real family with the Kents and the next season will be Morgan and Clarke both combining to fight and stop what Morgan released. - I'd love that.

It would be really nice to actually see Superman have a brother (not explored yet) big company, big tech asset help in Morgan and his multi billion corporation actually on Superman's side instead of the predictable which is, they keep Morgan evil, it would feel too much like Lex with a twist, as in.."what if Lex was an actual brother" but do nothing essentially different with the character except for the one fact - so I'd like to see the end turn out differently. Rather than be a perpetual enemy, Morgan becomes a close friend, rather than being uninvolved he continues to play a role and an influence on his nephews growing up. i think there can be some interesting frenemy clash wit Lois too, or they could do the opposite, Morgan and Lois become really close and Clarke and his brother are the ones that have the rivalry as opposed to Jonathan and Jordan. That may even be more interesting. This show benefitted by this set 15 years ahead of the current timeline so they can really do a lot more on a global scale than other shows do.

If they had a great budget you would have plots that occasionally involve other super heroes 15 years on, like Robin and the titans (which I think is in the same timeline as Superman and Lois, the new Arrow show successor which also jumps 15 years into the future, and they can sometimes do some very different things.

I also like the idea of Jonathan developing powers but hiding it from everyone, and maybe Morgan gets to find out, so they have an unusual bond. If Morgan stays around, i think he would be secret superhero like the Martian manhunter in supergirl, so he only helps superly in dire situations and the world isn't really aware of him.

[paxen]

I'm thinking that this ends with Clarke talking his brother out of crazy and showing him what real family is.. wanna bet that the end plot will see Morgan do something even more disastrous, but totally soften when he finds real family with the Kents and the next season will be Morgan and Clarke both combining to fight and stop what Morgan released. - I'd love that.

Oh, a Morgan redemption arc could be great. But also very hard to pull off. The writers of this show might just be able to do just that, they've been so good so far.

I don't think that's were the show is headed (Morgan has been an out-and-out villain, and his characterization is more in line with a villain you can understand, rather than a heel-face turn), but if they did go there I'd be all for it.

Maybe "Uncle Morgan" is a wink at exactly this!

[ravenmoon]

Oh, a Morgan redemption arc could be great. But also very hard to pull off. The writers of this show might just be able to do just that, they've been so good so far.

I don't think that's were the show is headed (Morgan has been an out-and-out villain, and his characterization is more in line with a villain you can understand, rather than a heel-face turn), but if they did go there I'd be all for it.

Maybe "Uncle Morgan" is a wink at exactly this!

I know, but why do I realy like the idea of having "uncle Morgan" in the fold.

the thing is keeping him a villain makes him essentially Lex Luthor -- too similar, Clarke and Lex were like brothers, then fell out, but Clarke and Morgan are brothers... it would be nice if it went differently. Btw, we should probably hide the spoiler, since it's only been 2 episodes since the reveal came .. i left mine open because you did yours.

[paxen]

Btw, we should probably hide the spoiler, since it's only been 2 episodes since the reveal came .. i left mine open because you did yours.

Wait what I had spoilers in my first post and left it off because I thought *you* had left it open! Probably some weird format error, I've added spoilers to my second post now.

[Ashleyxoxo]

Stopped at "your sons need you." Is this a cruel joke?