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  1. #161
    I know twinks are affected by this, but it's basically fixing itself in a few weeks when the majority of players don't need that anymore because it's a one time thing.

    I leave dungeons early too btw. Not only for legendaries though.
    I can check the loot-table, unless I'm running with people I know, I'll leave early if I know that the last 2 bosses can't drop an upgrade.
    Since titanforge isn't a thing anymore, it's basically pointless as there is no reward in playing any further. Bosses can only drop 1 specific item most of the time. For example bracers.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Game design like bosses dropping interesting BIS items suffers a ton when faced with toxic community’s it’s always been this way.

    Nothing to be done about it until blizzard adds something to inhibit the toxic people.
    Valuing my own time over the time of strangers is toxic now? What is toxic is the amount of people that defend such a crap game design which locks gamechanging items that everyone playing even remotely seriously needs behind stupid rng like this.

  3. #163
    Brewmaster Alkizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Welcome to oldschool loot tables in newschool auto-search&no-server-identity scenario
    a little fix

    In other words, manipulation of individual system's pieces outside overall design is self-deception work. There is need to understand how everything works together, and not make concessions/changes in small steps. I'd refer to same approach in last "class changes", but it's even slower there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    I can fault the players. It is not hard to not be a cunt.
    We have already discussed this more than once, the system is always to blame for everything, it's external element of control and this is very logical that its incorrect organization causes unpleasant consequences (here some stuff and links to other old threads). Player isn't one to blame for doing what can absolutely painlessly for oneself and legally within framework of the system. System doesn't encourage anyone to be "good", but rather indicates that it's only beneficial to be bad.

    So... yes, it's not hard to not be, but more convenient is to be
    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    drop fragments to make whichever legendary you want instead of a low chance from whichever boss your spec wants.
    This is "chance to drop some fragments from any boss of this dungeon to make legendary item you want" (since shoving everything into the last can serve to form desire to "appear only at last") perhaps the most successful of possible crutches in this case, but my attitude to current organization of legendary items is described in sufficient detail here (tl;dr it's $hit)
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2020-12-04 at 11:40 AM.
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  4. #164
    TBH i did that in plaguefall as hunter the last week. I was DPS so it should take like 2 secs to find another dps.
    I had to run plaguefall like 80 times for my legge to drop, i just dont have the time to do the whole dungeon with how the drop rates were.
    I mean this is only a problem since there is no M+, with the reset next week this will end so, who cares.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Festisio View Post
    It shows a distinct lack of moral fibre. You are no doubt also the type of person who does not return a shopping trolley after using it, as there is no benefit to you if doing so, and no recourse by not doing so.

    Well, your picture shows that people person who did not leave is actually calling person who left "a cunt". So I guess I guess leaving is not toxic, just induces it in others.
    I return trolleys after shopping and you have no reason to think that I would not. I also don't litter and sort my waste out into streams, I wait in the queue as all others do and often let other drivers in on my way to/from work.
    I also sometimes give a lift for some people from work. To the street I live in, if the traffic is good or if I need something to get from the store or it rains, I might drop them off at their place, but I won't go out of my way to sit in traffic for an hour for people I only know by name and workplace, but I will be nice enough to give them a lift, so they can save time and money by not waiting for a bus as long as I don't have to get out of my way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Queendom View Post
    In before tanks are called toxic for not queueing for random Heroic since there's nothing to do.
    Haha, as if we had some social obligation to do a quota of tanking for the public Would be a good laugh.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    The design is not great, but at least tanks are still joining. If not for legendary and a weapon I would have not joined a hc dungeon at all after initial farm.
    I´d rather wait 10 minutes longer in the queue, than to have to wait after each Boss for new People.

    How about, you get a LootID on bosses, until you clear the Endboss.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    But in the same breath... you can't fault the players. They are playing the game as they intend to. No one is required to complete dungeons.
    If their intent is griefing other players then that IS their fault.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by LanToaster View Post
    I´d rather wait 10 minutes longer in the queue, than to have to wait after each Boss for new People.

    How about, you get a LootID on bosses, until you clear the Endboss.
    I think this would be harsh considering the fact, that it has always been like this and the shit fiesta will be over in few weeks as less and less people actually still farm their leggos.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Queendom View Post
    In before tanks are called toxic for not queueing for random Heroic since there's nothing to do.
    Tanks are usually the most snobbish assholes there are. They always decide what to skip and drop the group whenever they feel like.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Daronokk View Post
    If their intent is griefing other players then that IS their fault.
    Lol, who does that? Who would join a dungeon, to get an invite and leave after first boss just to shit on people? Leaving after you killed the boss you needed loot from is not griefing.

  11. #171
    I don't need a single item from Heroic Necrotic Wake. Why should I stay if second boss does not drop my legendary?

  12. #172
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masternap View Post
    In almost every single dungeon at least one person leaves after a certain boss they're obviously farming. For example in Theater of Pain rogues always leave after the first boss and warriors always leave after Xav, since they're looking for their legendary recipe.

    I can't remember the last time it was THIS bad. I've been waiting 5 minutes for a new tank now since warrior tank left after Xav. I'm questioning if it was such a good idea to put legendary items on dungeon bosses. People have absolutely no shame anymore and don't give a single crap if others have to wait.

    Have you experienced this as well or am I just unlucky?
    Back in vanilla I saw tanks and dps leave (or 'dc') when the bindings didn't drop from MC bosses, and in ZG from people after the mounts - in BC I had to replace many people in MgT groups after the 'council' fight because everyone and their mother was farming trinkets. Had people bail on Gruul because they were just there for the tier token from first boss and saw that behavior in many other raids as well - even had a guildie bail after Curator in Karazhan because 'sorry this is the only thing I need here'.

    I could list many more examples.

    Point is, this is not new and shocking behavior. People have always (and will always) prioritize themselves over strangers in a video game when it comes to how they spend their time. This is a 'human nature' thing, not a 'WoW' thing.
    Appreciate your time with friends and family while they're here. Don't wait until they're gone to tell them what they mean to you.

  13. #173
    We had a funny story on wednesday. I missed 10 anima for my 1000 anima weekly and wanted to do quick daylie hc with 3 of my friends.
    We got Theatre of Pain. The random tank was afk for 5 minutes. Then we killed the first trashpack and he stood still for 5 more minutes. When we wanted him to hurry up a bit he told us "Yeah you will leave after the first boss anyway.."
    No we didn't..
    After the first Boss he was AFK for a couple of minutes again and we went to the Meathook boss and waited in front of the first trash pack.
    When he came back he went directly towards Vax (the arena boss? i think that's his name) and after we killed him and he didn't get his legendary he left xD
    First he flamed us that we would just leave after the first boss, which we didn't, then he left after his legendary boss.

    What a clown

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Well, your picture shows that people person who did not leave is actually calling person who left "a cunt". So I guess I guess leaving is not toxic, just induces it in others.
    You are inflicting social pain to people you leave behind, if the source of negativity is your leaving then you are indeed one of the triggers responsible for the toxicity right after your departure. You don't blame the clouds for the acid rain, you blame the industry that causes the acid in the first place. Please be aware that I am in no way trying to blame you specifically for the entirety of social distress in group interactions, but you are also not innocent if your perception makes you believe that.
    Last edited by Qnubi; 2020-12-04 at 11:23 AM.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    You are inflicting social pain to people you leave behind, if the source of negativity is your leaving then you are indeed one of the triggers responsible for the toxicity right after your departure. You don't blame the acid raid for being acid, you blame the industry that causes the acid in the first place. Please be aware that I am in no way trying to blame you specifically for the entirety of social distress in group interactions, but you are also not innocent if your perception makes you believe that.
    Well, people who don't look up tactics or are underperforming for their class are a burden too, which then pains the party clearing the content. I mean we can go through mental gymnastics over here and blaming someone for leaving after the boss, if there is no value for that person to complete the dungeon is as bad as someone who goes in and drags the group down because they don't use optimal rotation and stats. Both waste time of the group. One does it over time, other does it in bulk

  16. #176
    It's a pointless discussion if it is morally right to leave after a boss. There are valid arguments for both sides, and people are going to take the stance they can mostly identify with, but there is no "right" or "wrong" answer.

    What there is, though, is that this was utterly predictable and avoidable. Having drops not tied to the final boss did not work in the past, and it was hotfixed several times in the past. And having the easiest spammable way to obtain those items available in the dungeon finder also was not the best idea they ever had.

  17. #177
    I did like 10 dungeons yesterday, half of them I was thrown into middle of the dungeons with half bosses dead. That showed to me that people leaving is a bigger issue then it was in previous expansions (at least to my experience).

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Well, people who don't look up tactics or are underperforming for their class are a burden too, which then pains the party clearing the content. I mean we can go through mental gymnastics over here and blaming someone for leaving after the boss, if there is no value for that person to complete the dungeon is as bad as someone who goes in and drags the group down because they don't use optimal rotation and stats. Both waste time of the group. One does it over time, other does it in bulk
    I agree with your basic statement in general. However, I see a crucial difference between someone under-performing in his role compared to someone leaving a group. The one leaving does so intentional, whereas someone being bad in his role can still do it's best without realizing being bad. If you go in a group and play intentionally bad, then I agree that's the same. But someone new to the game or lacking knowledge can't be compared to the same level of wasting someones time. He/she doesn't know better.

    And teaching/learning your class during a dungeon run is probably not gonna work, even for people of high skill ceiling you need more than just 10-15 minutes to truly master your craft. We also need to remember that people are not equal in all aspects of the game. While I have no problem learning new things relatively quick this doesn't mean every human alive has this same capability. Then there is also the sense of "high standards" while you think overall 3k dps is fine, to me 4k dps could be fine, and someone else says it's 2,5k.

    My numbers are obviously just placeholders and not absolute statements.
    Last edited by Qnubi; 2020-12-04 at 11:49 AM.

  19. #179
    Mythic plus will fix this instantly for me. Keystones drop from last boss. Chest spawns after last boss. Great vault counts completed dungeons.

    There will still be people targeting trinkets from first bosses but those groups will not be mine anymore

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    It's a pointless discussion if it is morally right to leave after a boss. There are valid arguments for both sides, and people are going to take the stance they can mostly identify with, but there is no "right" or "wrong" answer.

    What there is, though, is that this was utterly predictable and avoidable. Having drops not tied to the final boss did not work in the past, and it was hotfixed several times in the past. And having the easiest spammable way to obtain those items available in the dungeon finder also was not the best idea they ever had.
    Good post. The changes to the drop % only mean that people will have to get fewer kills on their desired bosses, but this is still going to happen. I did it myself, it's not nice but then again replacing a DPS takes like 30 seconds so i don't think that hindered the rest of the party for long.

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