absolutely worthless now

[Aggrophobic]

BM is an entry level spec. It’s meant for new players who haven’t learned to play the game yet. It should be relevant for any competitive content. It is by far the least risky spec in the game to play so therefore it should also have the least reward. There needs to be a balance between performance and effort. And since BM is the spec that requires least effort it should also have the lowest performance.

This is just not true and there are quite a few specs that are way easier. Frost mage for instance or DH.
There is not and should not be anything like "balance between performance and effort" in WoW.

[Cracked]

This is just not true and there are quite a few specs that are way easier. Frost mage for instance or DH.
There is not and should not be anything like "balance between performance and effort" in WoW.

There is literally nothing safer you can play than BM. You can do your full rotation on the move and you still can do a big part of your damage when not even in the range or line of sight. That is a fact. Now unfortunately Blizzard maintains that all specs should be +- on the same footing, while indeed the level of efforts needed to play different specs are wildly different too.

[Aleksej89]

High tier PVE in wow is about repeating class mechanics and boss mechanics until you can execute it while sleeping.
Choosing class or spec should be about preference and not about effort/risk/reward.

Some people enjoy some type of more intensive challenge and some classes should provide that option.
But people that enjoy simpler playstyles should not be penalized with lower DPS/competitiveness simply because they prefer staring at less UI bars/counters.

Going by the logic of "more difficulty = more dps" then all melee classses should do 200% DPS compared to ranged classes because the amount of danger mechanics melee classes have to avoid in PVE is huge while ranged classes can often /snooze through most boss mechanics and just DPS without worry.
Not to mention that ranged classes have the simple advantage of not needing to travel to their new targets to start DPS.

Honestly hunters were best designed during MOPandaria, i enjoyed that class the most then.
Survival rework into melee, while a neat idea, really did not result in an enjoyable spec... it feels like an unpolished gimmick.
Marksmanship was changed into "look at me i have to stand still to cast" which is extremely against the usual hunter mobility theme (while balance druids have permanent cast while moving through talent...).

Beast master always felt weird in the visual sort of way because your abilities consisted of hand-waving to your pet and not some actual cool shot or spell.
And it always suffered from some scaling issues, either too strong or too weak and rarely somewhere in the middle.

[bloodwulf]

BM is an entry level spec. It’s meant for new players who haven’t learned to play the game yet. It should be relevant for any competitive content. It is by far the least risky spec in the game to play so therefore it should also have the least reward. There needs to be a balance between performance and effort. And since BM is the spec that requires least effort it should also have the lowest performance.

Holy shit your comment shows more issues about yourself and your guild than the spec itself. First, marks is only moderately more difficult than BM, either can perform fine, yeah you wont be the top dps always, but you should not be below healers\tanks as the spec. As a tank that pugs frequently, ill take any hunter regardless of if they are Marks or BM (wont take Surv because melee slot in M+ is too competitive). BM has probably the simplest cleave in the game. In mythics where higher keys tend to favor doing mechanics over raw dps, either hunter spec is good as they are highly mobile.
People have killed mythic bosses with every dps spec in the game, so as long as you are competent you can do heroics....sounds to me that may be where you are missing.....

[Aggrophobic]

There is literally nothing safer you can play than BM. You can do your full rotation on the move and you still can do a big part of your damage when not even in the range or line of sight. That is a fact. Now unfortunately Blizzard maintains that all specs should be +- on the same footing, while indeed the level of efforts needed to play different specs are wildly different too.

They do have movement but the use of their CDs, pets (the amount of hunters that just let them do whatever is insane) and just basic rotation is actually more complext than say frost mage. Most melee are simpler as well, with some exceptions of course. That Blizzard also gave hunter all the utility you could ever need and things like immunities and BL/Hero is beyond me but it's hardly the simplest spec to play well. Heck, marksman at this point might be simpler.

[xazrael]

Not having a bad experience at all with BM. Sure, MM is definitely pulling more DPS, but not THAT much. I mean, I am pulling almost 4k dps on most fights, and the sim geared MM hunter is doing around 4400.
I don't do PVP, but I imagine it isn't remotely balanced at the moment. Even Blizz said they don't care about PVP balance until later on or during a tournament.

In addition, even with wild spirits, BM cannot mass pull like other specs/classes. We are not a class to pull 10 mobs. 2-3 mobs a fight is just fine, and even then, I still trap one usually.

[Eapoe]

PSA: never respond to Kaver, and ignore his comments, about BM. He has a personal grudge against the spec and always makes comments about how it is an easy spec while making comments about Havoc DH being nuanced and difficult by comparison due to it being melee.

By the way, I am not stating BM isn’t easy, I’m just trying to give everyone a heads up so they don’t have to tire their fingers responding to his/her opinion on the spec.

[Monkeymootwo]

At least BM. It's so weak its not fun to play and i'm therefor leaning towards unsub. I struggle doing normal WQs, I lose almost all 1v1 wpvp, in BG's im basically a critter.

This coming from someone who knows the spec inside out, and with "decent" gear (including BiS 190ilvl wep).

Those of you who switched over to MM, tell me your experience. I have a bunch of alt, but this is my main and considering the unbelivably slow grind with covenants, the maw etc, I will not play alts in this expansion.

There’s no way you’re struggling with WQs at around 190 ilvl. That alone tells me you aren’t nearly as knowledgable about the spec as you think you are.

[Moozart]

There’s no way you’re struggling with WQs at around 190 ilvl. That alone tells me you aren’t nearly as knowledgable about the spec as you think you are.

I was thinking the same thing... I cleared Twisting halls with a 183 ilevel alt BM hunter and that is FAR harder than a WQ LOL, he sounds like a smoothie

[Ticj]

There is literally nothing safer you can play than BM. You can do your full rotation on the move and you still can do a big part of your damage when not even in the range or line of sight. That is a fact. Now unfortunately Blizzard maintains that all specs should be +- on the same footing, while indeed the level of efforts needed to play different specs are wildly different too.

Yeah, BM could have one of the most complicated rotations in the game, but if it can do all of it while moving it is still one of the easier specs to play at a high level in PvP and PvE. (Especially since in PvP hunters are also the only ranged class in the game who cannot be interrupted)

[glowpipe]

Doesn't matter what you say about bm. Its consistently bottom 5 every week on logs. Just check the weekly logs posted on mmo champ or icy-veins, checking where classes are. What op is smoking, i don't know. its strong as fuck in outdoor content where your pet can tank. But raids they are rather weak compared to others

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...6#class=Hunter
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...0&difficulty=4
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st.../26#dataset=90

Mythic and hc they are consistently among the bottom 3 week after week. Its obviously because they are "wicked strong" as people claim in this thread.

They are viable and easy to play, but they are not good compared to other classes/specs

[thunderdragon2]

BM is an entry level spec. It’s meant for new players who haven’t learned to play the game yet. It should be relevant for any competitive content. It is by far the least risky spec in the game to play so therefore it should also have the least reward. There needs to be a balance between performance and effort. And since BM is the spec that requires least effort it should also have the lowest performance.

not anymore, there anre many spec that are easier now to play than bm, mm for for example feels alot easier than bm but not as fun for most

[KrayZ33]

not anymore, there anre many spec that are easier now to play than bm, mm for for example feels alot easier than bm but not as fun for most

Nah....
MM is not difficult, but BM is objectively easier.
MM still has a lot of ways to fuck up and it's spikey damage output makes mistakes way more severe - BM just... doesn't have that at all.

Basically everything BM has to worry about, MM has too... + movement restrictions and cast times.
I can't name a single thing BM has to watch out for that MM doesn't have to consider also.

spell priorities, focus management, multi-dotting, de/buff uptime, cooldowns and proper use of skills inside that cooldown, procs.

MM has all of that too, I even have to fight with Pet-AI sometimes when I run M+ and we need bloodlust. But that's hardly a problem in the first place because 95% of the time. You will do just fine having that beast on assist, since beastcleave is now target capped anyway and will basically always have enough range to hit the targets you want to and KC adds the mobility you need for a target switch.

[glowpipe]

Nah....
MM is not difficult, but BM is objectively easier.
MM still has a lot of ways to fuck up and it's spikey damage output makes mistakes way more severe - BM just... doesn't have that at all.

Basically everything BM has to worry about, MM has too... + movement restrictions and cast times.
I can't name a single thing BM has to watch out for that MM doesn't have to consider.

spell priorities, focus management, multi-dotting, de/buff uptime, cooldowns and proper use of skills inside that cooldown.

MM has all of that too, I even have to fight with Pet-AI sometimes when I run M+ and we need bloodlust

i find managing the trap and barbed shot stacks harder then anything i do in mm. Not that its hard on bm either to get that shit right.

[KrayZ33]

i find managing the trap and barbed shot stacks harder then anything i do in mm. Not that its hard on bm either to get that shit right.

The trap handling might be shit, mostly due to how blizzard designed that thing, I give you that. But the problems that come with it are mostly out of your control (tank moving etc.).
But barbed shot isn't any "harder" to maintain properly than steady focus.
And the difference between proper usage of barbed shot and just "winging" it is also pretty low.

On AoE it doesn't even matter at all and you are basically spamming Barbed Shot anyway.

[thunderdragon2]

Nah....
MM is not difficult, but BM is objectively easier.
MM still has a lot of ways to fuck up and it's spikey damage output makes mistakes way more severe - BM just... doesn't have that at all.

Basically everything BM has to worry about, MM has too... + movement restrictions and cast times.
I can't name a single thing BM has to watch out for that MM doesn't have to consider also.

spell priorities, focus management, multi-dotting, de/buff uptime, cooldowns and proper use of skills inside that cooldown, procs.

MM has all of that too, I even have to fight with Pet-AI sometimes when I run M+ and we need bloodlust. But that's hardly a problem in the first place because 95% of the time. You will do just fine having that beast on assist, since beastcleave is now target capped anyway and will basically always have enough range to hit the targets you want to and KC adds the mobility you need for a target switch.

i didnt say bm wasnt easier i said it mm was more forgiving if you mess up, messing up rotation on mm is more forgiving than messing up bm's

[GnomeEU]

Doesn't matter what you say about bm. Its consistently bottom 5 every week on logs. Just check the weekly logs posted on mmo champ or icy-veins, checking where classes are. What op is smoking, i don't know. its strong as fuck in outdoor content where your pet can tank. But raids they are rather weak compared to others

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...6#class=Hunter
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...0&difficulty=4
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st.../26#dataset=90

Mythic and hc they are consistently among the bottom 3 week after week. Its obviously because they are "wicked strong" as people claim in this thread.

They are viable and easy to play, but they are not good compared to other classes/specs

Logs don't mean anything tho.
If fire was 5% behind dps of frost, no one would play fire.

That's how a spec ends up at the bottom. Because there a better alternative. Doesn't matter how much better. Competitive players won't chose the weaker spec. Which also would not get them invited.

[mhdoe]

It sounds like you maybe don't know the spec as good as you thought.