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  1. #281
    Dungeons: Still very much at the top of the pack. Im out dpsing MM hunters with a higher ilvl,
    And comments like BM perfectly fine have no problem doing dailies.
    what are you smoking people?
    Even after the buff best dungeon i did mine 1st 15 plague . boomkin.feral and me Boss dmg was fine on trash which is the key to make in time even all mine cds was 40-50% behind on aoe.least lol. dont even talk when i was whit fire mage.14k aoe he doing 35k+.
    so yeh if you aiming keys 10 at max we fine if you want too time higher keys the uncapped aoe dps basickly carry you whit this point. That applies for ofc other classes whit low aoe to.
    So tried all those Bm hunters saying it is fine when just got too lvl 60 never done any high staff yet.
    Last edited by Boniewow; 2021-02-12 at 08:19 AM.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by vashe9 View Post
    I'm only missing one m+15 for the achiev, no one in my guild has the key. I try to queue.... I WRITE IN MY NOTE THAN IM BM. And people still kick me after grouping me. HOLY ***** I hate people in this game
    Strangers don't owe you anything. If they don't want to play with a BM then it is their right.
    I play BM with my guildies and MM when I pug. I do prefer BM, but I am adult enough to understand that I am not entitled to be invited to other people's group and if it is MM they want then I can either not do a key or play MM.
    You should try to understand how other people think, not because you should think like they do, but because that makes it easier for you to achieve what you want.

    P.S.
    And there are good reasons why people prefer MM to BM:
    1. The AoE is vastly superior and bursty to boot
    2. Brings the same utility to the group as a BM + a bit extra in the form of a knockback
    Last edited by T-34; 2021-02-13 at 10:22 AM.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    Strangers don't owe you anything. If they don't want to play with a BM then it is their right.
    I play BM with my guildies and MM when I pug. I do prefer BM, but I am adult enough to understand that I am not entitled to be invited to other people's group and if it is MM they want then I can either not do a key or play MM.
    You should try to understand how other people think, not because you should think like they do, but because that makes it easier for you to achieve what you want.

    P.S.
    And there are good reasons why people prefer MM to BM:
    1. The AoE is vastly superior and bursty to boot
    2. Brings the same utility to the group as a BM + a bit extra in the form of a knockback
    well from my experience, bm are good in solo (versus solo boss) but suck at big aoe
    mm are good in both, its why people want mm and not bm in mm+
    blizzard just need to buff a little more the bm dps and his aoe and he will suddenly be good to pick in mm+

    im 197 with mine, no mm+, no raid, wq are not really hard or any big elite out there, you can solo everything fine, sometime the dps is not there, after the burst, if the elite is alive, the fight will be slow to finish on mob with more than 500k hp, the burst under the fairy convenant help a lot to destroy around 350-450k hp of the elite in a few seconds but after that, oh man, its really slow ^^
    Last edited by kaintk; 2021-02-13 at 09:26 PM.

  4. #284
    Herald of the Titans msdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    Strangers don't owe you anything. If they don't want to play with a BM then it is their right.
    I play BM with my guildies and MM when I pug. I do prefer BM, but I am adult enough to understand that I am not entitled to be invited to other people's group and if it is MM they want then I can either not do a key or play MM.
    You should try to understand how other people think, not because you should think like they do, but because that makes it easier for you to achieve what you want.
    They don't have to play with him, but it's still toxic to act toxic in a children's video game. It isn't a positive experience.

    Example: if everyone decides they only want to fill their groups with WW monks, that is toxic, bad for the game, stupid, etc. I mean if you wanna defend that type of behavior in a Massive MULTIPLAYER online game where you socialize with people, you're entitled to your opinion, but it's a bad opinion.
    Also we all pay a subscription fee (some do), so we are actually contractually entitled to a satisfactory service.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    They don't have to play with him, but it's still toxic to act toxic in a children's video game. It isn't a positive experience.

    Example: if everyone decides they only want to fill their groups with WW monks, that is toxic, bad for the game, stupid, etc. I mean if you wanna defend that type of behavior in a Massive MULTIPLAYER online game where you socialize with people, you're entitled to your opinion, but it's a bad opinion.
    Also we all pay a subscription fee (some do), so we are actually contractually entitled to a satisfactory service.
    Everybody in WoW can make their own groups and invite whomever they want, and that includes WW-monks. If you don't want to make your own group then you have to accept the demands of other people, like it or not.
    And regarding socializing that is something you do in your guild. I have no obligation whatsoever to carry strangers in the game.
    I do play with strangers, but only those that share my view on what is fun in-game and have a similar experience and skill as I do.

    And you get what you pay for in WoW. You have to possibility to do all content in the game. It just requires the right mix of social skills/in-game skills and time. You are not entitled to my time in-game, you have to earn the right to play with me, just as I have to earn the right to play with other people.

    P.S.
    Many people, including me, consider people that feel entitled to the time of other people in-game to create a toxic atmosphere in-game. Isn't it nice that Blizzard doesn't force us to play together?

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    Strangers don't owe you anything. If they don't want to play with a BM then it is their right.
    I play BM with my guildies and MM when I pug. I do prefer BM, but I am adult enough to understand that I am not entitled to be invited to other people's group and if it is MM they want then I can either not do a key or play MM.
    You should try to understand how other people think, not because you should think like they do, but because that makes it easier for you to achieve what you want.

    P.S.
    And there are good reasons why people prefer MM to BM:
    1. The AoE is vastly superior and bursty to boot
    2. Brings the same utility to the group as a BM + a bit extra in the form of a knockback
    ???
    At least talk to me and say "sorry we prefer a MM spec hunter".
    OR SIMPLY INSPECT MY RAIDER IO PAGE BEFORE INVITING ME IF YOU'RE **** ASKING FOR SPECIFIC RAIDER IO.

    It's in big, in large, I'm BM

    Not an insta kick 5 sec after joining and no answer to whisps... I'm a player not a f*** NPC, anyway I'm the first BM of my server (raider io) and I only mm+ with my guild. F* the PU, I dont need to push +20 keys anyway. I managed to push +17 in time.

    I dont want to understand how these people think. I'm not their NPC, I'm not playing for them. People should learn respect.
    And I wrote in CAPITAL LETTERS IN MY NOTE - !!!! I'm BM HUNTER !!!!.
    Now people cant even READ ?!

    I'm sure I outdps 70-80% of mm hunters with similar raider io rating. I'm sure of it.
    Last edited by vashe9; 2021-02-17 at 08:35 AM.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by vashe9 View Post
    I'm not their NPC, I'm not playing for them. People should learn respect.
    They aren't your NPCs either.

    If you choose a spec that's less than optimal, you do it at THEIR discretion. Because they put in time, and it's your obligation to honor that time by doing the best you can. If they're fine with you doing less than you could, that's totally alright - but that's up to them to offer, not for you to demand.

    And of course the same goes for all of them.

    Also: you may think you can out-dps 80% of MM hunters; you may even be right. But the random PUG you're joining has no way of knowing that. They'll insure their personal time by choosing the unknown quantities that, on average, give them the best chance of the best return for their investment. Nobody is obliged to take the chances on a -EV bet just because 5% of the time you hit someone great. You play it safe, and that way you tend to lose least often.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Boniewow View Post
    Dungeons: Still very much at the top of the pack. Im out dpsing MM hunters with a higher ilvl,
    And comments like BM perfectly fine have no problem doing dailies.
    what are you smoking people?
    Even after the buff best dungeon i did mine 1st 15 plague . boomkin.feral and me Boss dmg was fine on trash which is the key to make in time even all mine cds was 40-50% behind on aoe.least lol. dont even talk when i was whit fire mage.14k aoe he doing 35k+.
    so yeh if you aiming keys 10 at max we fine if you want too time higher keys the uncapped aoe dps basickly carry you whit this point. That applies for ofc other classes whit low aoe to.
    So tried all those Bm hunters saying it is fine when just got too lvl 60 never done any high staff yet.
    I outdps or was about the same dps as bad boomies in some 15-16 keys ... because having the meta class doesn't translate in good results if you're clueless about your class...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    They aren't your NPCs either.

    If you choose a spec that's less than optimal, you do it at THEIR discretion. Because they put in time, and it's your obligation to honor that time by doing the best you can. If they're fine with you doing less than you could, that's totally alright - but that's up to them to offer, not for you to demand.

    And of course the same goes for all of them.

    Also: you may think you can out-dps 80% of MM hunters; you may even be right. But the random PUG you're joining has no way of knowing that. They'll insure their personal time by choosing the unknown quantities that, on average, give them the best chance of the best return for their investment. Nobody is obliged to take the chances on a -EV bet just because 5% of the time you hit someone great. You play it safe, and that way you tend to lose least often.
    I'm using them as NPC when I just ask that they inspect me/my items before inviting me ? Or just saying a "sorry mate, we tought you were MM we need a MM hunter :/" if they invited me

    That's what raider io is for, if I timed several 17 keys and had better rio than these people, why would I have a problem to time a +14 with ANY party ?

    That's what a respectable human being would do, and I'm fine with that.
    Last edited by vashe9; 2021-02-17 at 09:16 AM.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by vashe9 View Post
    ???
    At least talk to me and say "sorry we prefer a MM spec hunter".
    OR SIMPLY INSPECT MY RAIDER IO PAGE BEFORE INVITING ME IF YOU'RE **** ASKING FOR SPECIFIC RAIDER IO.

    It's in big, in large, I'm BM

    Not an insta kick 5 sec after joining and no answer to whisps... I'm a player not a f*** NPC, anyway I'm the first BM of my server (raider io) and I only mm+ with my guild. F* the PU, I dont need to push +20 keys anyway. I managed to push +17 in time.

    I dont want to understand how these people think. I'm not their NPC, I'm not playing for them. People should learn respect.
    And I wrote in CAPITAL LETTERS IN MY NOTE - !!!! I'm BM HUNTER !!!!.
    Now people cant even READ ?!

    I'm sure I outdps 70-80% of mm hunters with similar raider io rating. I'm sure of it.
    Well, you of course have the right to feel insulted about how complete strangers treat you, no matter how unproductive such feelings are, but if you want to be invited to other people's group and not being kicked then you have to abide by their rules/whims/demands, no matter how stupid they might seem.
    Your only solution is to either play MM with strangers, make your own group or play with guildies.
    I personally am to lazy to make my own group so I play MM with strangers and BM with guildes and don't wast my time, energy and sanity on getting mad at strangers in LFG.
    Trying to change other people is in my opinion the greatest waste of time, both in WoW and in RL

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    Well, you of course have the right to feel insulted about how complete strangers treat you, no matter how unproductive such feelings are, but if you want to be invited to other people's group and not being kicked then you have to abide by their rules/whims/demands, no matter how stupid they might seem.
    Your only solution is to either play MM with strangers, make your own group or play with guildies.
    I personally am to lazy to make my own group so I play MM with strangers and BM with guildes and don't wast my time, energy and sanity on getting mad at strangers in LFG.
    Trying to change other people is in my opinion the greatest waste of time, both in WoW and in RL
    The whole point of this thread : if BM was not this far off MM (and I didnt say better or even equivalent), there wouldn't be such a problem.

  11. #291
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReleaseDay View Post
    At least BM. It's so weak its not fun to play and i'm therefor leaning towards unsub. I struggle doing normal WQs, I lose almost all 1v1 wpvp, in BG's im basically a critter.

    This coming from someone who knows the spec inside out, and with "decent" gear (including BiS 190ilvl wep).

    Those of you who switched over to MM, tell me your experience. I have a bunch of alt, but this is my main and considering the unbelivably slow grind with covenants, the maw etc, I will not play alts in this expansion.
    BM isn't very good in PvP, it has good sustain but lacks the burst that the meta is currently formed around. I am currently leveling my hunter and got attacked by a VDH and RDruid and was able to kill the VDH twice and the druid once before slipping out of the area and regrouping. This was probably a solid 5 minute fight with mobs all over my pets due to stomp. Damage wise for raids they are parsing right near the bottom of all the specs. Solo though they aren't amazingly quick at anything, again, due to their lack of burst but they do very very well due to pet tanking. You might want to switch to core hound for solo content, I found it to do very very well. Also in pvp how much vers do you have? Are you running double pvp trinkets? I think your target vers should be around 30% base for pvp.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    Strangers don't owe you anything. If they don't want to play with a BM then it is their right.
    I play BM with my guildies and MM when I pug. I do prefer BM, but I am adult enough to understand that I am not entitled to be invited to other people's group and if it is MM they want then I can either not do a key or play MM.
    You should try to understand how other people think, not because you should think like they do, but because that makes it easier for you to achieve what you want.

    P.S.
    And there are good reasons why people prefer MM to BM:
    1. The AoE is vastly superior and bursty to boot
    2. Brings the same utility to the group as a BM + a bit extra in the form of a knockback
    That was obviously a dig at the people inviting them, knowing they play bm, then kicking them. Its a dick move. If you dont want a bm hunter, don't invite the person that clearly said they are bm.

    All it does is force cancelation of other queues.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by vashe9 View Post
    The whole point of this thread : if BM was not this far off MM (and I didnt say better or even equivalent), there wouldn't be such a problem.
    Maybe, but I am doubtful. There has always been a meta, now matter how small the advantage is, for the simple reason that many people find it fun to play a game in the best possible way.
    And expecting strangers to put the same value on a non-meta player as a meta-player is naive.
    Only among people that know you can you expect to be valued on more than you face value.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by britishbubba View Post
    Our BM hunter is not having remotely the same experience as you.
    Same lol, 210 bm hunter I beat the mm hunters in our guild

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Indless View Post
    Same lol, 210 bm hunter I beat the mm hunters in our guild
    Because BM is easy to follow an optimal rotation, while MM is not so easy. Ergo you are really good at playing an easy spec, and the MM players suck at playing a more complicated one but they still do so because word on the forums is that MM is better than BM.

  16. #296
    In all honesty in pure single target faults BM is nearly as good as MM.

    But BM is totally awful in AOE fights and M+ especially. If you think you're doing as much damage as MM in those situations, well you just aren't.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    In all honesty in pure single target faults BM is nearly as good as MM.

    But BM is totally awful in AOE fights and M+ especially. If you think you're doing as much damage as MM in those situations, well you just aren't.
    ^^^ So true. I play both, with equal gear and the right stats/enhancements/food for each set. Although I still use BM for a couple of the raid fights that have an insane amount of movement (to keep my sanity), I've given up on BM in M+, it just doesn't have the required burst to burn down packs in a hurry. It's great if you're just doing world quests and dailies on your own time, but when you're under the clock, burst aoe is king, and unfortunately BM is lacking.
    Last edited by Tanis; 2021-02-20 at 11:15 PM.

  18. #298
    my heart is black towards this man

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Indless View Post
    Same lol, 210 bm hunter I beat the mm hunters in our guild
    Then the MM hunters are dogshit. MM is way better.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    Then the MM hunters are dogshit. MM is way better.
    It depends on the fight. Pure ST, such as Shriekwing or Hungering Destroyer, a BM Hunter could beat MM simply due to the movement involved on HD and the RNG movement of Shriekwing. This could also be the case for priority dps fights such as Blood Council with RNG movement factors.
    That stated, typically MM is the better option.

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