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  1. #181
    Herald of the Titans bloodwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    BM is an entry level spec. It’s meant for new players who haven’t learned to play the game yet. It should be relevant for any competitive content. It is by far the least risky spec in the game to play so therefore it should also have the least reward. There needs to be a balance between performance and effort. And since BM is the spec that requires least effort it should also have the lowest performance.
    Holy shit your comment shows more issues about yourself and your guild than the spec itself. First, marks is only moderately more difficult than BM, either can perform fine, yeah you wont be the top dps always, but you should not be below healers\tanks as the spec. As a tank that pugs frequently, ill take any hunter regardless of if they are Marks or BM (wont take Surv because melee slot in M+ is too competitive). BM has probably the simplest cleave in the game. In mythics where higher keys tend to favor doing mechanics over raw dps, either hunter spec is good as they are highly mobile.
    People have killed mythic bosses with every dps spec in the game, so as long as you are competent you can do heroics....sounds to me that may be where you are missing.....
    We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
    Let us play video games and be happy.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    There is literally nothing safer you can play than BM. You can do your full rotation on the move and you still can do a big part of your damage when not even in the range or line of sight. That is a fact. Now unfortunately Blizzard maintains that all specs should be +- on the same footing, while indeed the level of efforts needed to play different specs are wildly different too.
    They do have movement but the use of their CDs, pets (the amount of hunters that just let them do whatever is insane) and just basic rotation is actually more complext than say frost mage. Most melee are simpler as well, with some exceptions of course. That Blizzard also gave hunter all the utility you could ever need and things like immunities and BL/Hero is beyond me but it's hardly the simplest spec to play well. Heck, marksman at this point might be simpler.

  3. #183
    Not having a bad experience at all with BM. Sure, MM is definitely pulling more DPS, but not THAT much. I mean, I am pulling almost 4k dps on most fights, and the sim geared MM hunter is doing around 4400.
    I don't do PVP, but I imagine it isn't remotely balanced at the moment. Even Blizz said they don't care about PVP balance until later on or during a tournament.

    In addition, even with wild spirits, BM cannot mass pull like other specs/classes. We are not a class to pull 10 mobs. 2-3 mobs a fight is just fine, and even then, I still trap one usually.

  4. #184
    PSA: never respond to Kaver, and ignore his comments, about BM. He has a personal grudge against the spec and always makes comments about how it is an easy spec while making comments about Havoc DH being nuanced and difficult by comparison due to it being melee.

    By the way, I am not stating BM isn’t easy, I’m just trying to give everyone a heads up so they don’t have to tire their fingers responding to his/her opinion on the spec.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeymootwo View Post
    There’s no way you’re struggling with WQs at around 190 ilvl. That alone tells me you aren’t nearly as knowledgable about the spec as you think you are.
    I was thinking the same thing... I cleared Twisting halls with a 183 ilevel alt BM hunter and that is FAR harder than a WQ LOL, he sounds like a smoothie

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    There is literally nothing safer you can play than BM. You can do your full rotation on the move and you still can do a big part of your damage when not even in the range or line of sight. That is a fact. Now unfortunately Blizzard maintains that all specs should be +- on the same footing, while indeed the level of efforts needed to play different specs are wildly different too.
    Yeah, BM could have one of the most complicated rotations in the game, but if it can do all of it while moving it is still one of the easier specs to play at a high level in PvP and PvE. (Especially since in PvP hunters are also the only ranged class in the game who cannot be interrupted)

  7. #187
    Doesn't matter what you say about bm. Its consistently bottom 5 every week on logs. Just check the weekly logs posted on mmo champ or icy-veins, checking where classes are. What op is smoking, i don't know. its strong as fuck in outdoor content where your pet can tank. But raids they are rather weak compared to others

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...6#class=Hunter
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...0&difficulty=4
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st.../26#dataset=90

    Mythic and hc they are consistently among the bottom 3 week after week. Its obviously because they are "wicked strong" as people claim in this thread.

    They are viable and easy to play, but they are not good compared to other classes/specs

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    BM is an entry level spec. It’s meant for new players who haven’t learned to play the game yet. It should be relevant for any competitive content. It is by far the least risky spec in the game to play so therefore it should also have the least reward. There needs to be a balance between performance and effort. And since BM is the spec that requires least effort it should also have the lowest performance.
    not anymore, there anre many spec that are easier now to play than bm, mm for for example feels alot easier than bm but not as fun for most

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    not anymore, there anre many spec that are easier now to play than bm, mm for for example feels alot easier than bm but not as fun for most

    Nah....
    MM is not difficult, but BM is objectively easier.
    MM still has a lot of ways to fuck up and it's spikey damage output makes mistakes way more severe - BM just... doesn't have that at all.

    Basically everything BM has to worry about, MM has too... + movement restrictions and cast times.
    I can't name a single thing BM has to watch out for that MM doesn't have to consider also.

    spell priorities, focus management, multi-dotting, de/buff uptime, cooldowns and proper use of skills inside that cooldown, procs.

    MM has all of that too, I even have to fight with Pet-AI sometimes when I run M+ and we need bloodlust. But that's hardly a problem in the first place because 95% of the time. You will do just fine having that beast on assist, since beastcleave is now target capped anyway and will basically always have enough range to hit the targets you want to and KC adds the mobility you need for a target switch.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2021-01-15 at 12:45 AM.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Nah....
    MM is not difficult, but BM is objectively easier.
    MM still has a lot of ways to fuck up and it's spikey damage output makes mistakes way more severe - BM just... doesn't have that at all.

    Basically everything BM has to worry about, MM has too... + movement restrictions and cast times.
    I can't name a single thing BM has to watch out for that MM doesn't have to consider.

    spell priorities, focus management, multi-dotting, de/buff uptime, cooldowns and proper use of skills inside that cooldown.

    MM has all of that too, I even have to fight with Pet-AI sometimes when I run M+ and we need bloodlust
    i find managing the trap and barbed shot stacks harder then anything i do in mm. Not that its hard on bm either to get that shit right.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    i find managing the trap and barbed shot stacks harder then anything i do in mm. Not that its hard on bm either to get that shit right.
    The trap handling might be shit, mostly due to how blizzard designed that thing, I give you that. But the problems that come with it are mostly out of your control (tank moving etc.).
    But barbed shot isn't any "harder" to maintain properly than steady focus.
    And the difference between proper usage of barbed shot and just "winging" it is also pretty low.

    On AoE it doesn't even matter at all and you are basically spamming Barbed Shot anyway.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Nah....
    MM is not difficult, but BM is objectively easier.
    MM still has a lot of ways to fuck up and it's spikey damage output makes mistakes way more severe - BM just... doesn't have that at all.

    Basically everything BM has to worry about, MM has too... + movement restrictions and cast times.
    I can't name a single thing BM has to watch out for that MM doesn't have to consider also.

    spell priorities, focus management, multi-dotting, de/buff uptime, cooldowns and proper use of skills inside that cooldown, procs.

    MM has all of that too, I even have to fight with Pet-AI sometimes when I run M+ and we need bloodlust. But that's hardly a problem in the first place because 95% of the time. You will do just fine having that beast on assist, since beastcleave is now target capped anyway and will basically always have enough range to hit the targets you want to and KC adds the mobility you need for a target switch.
    i didnt say bm wasnt easier i said it mm was more forgiving if you mess up, messing up rotation on mm is more forgiving than messing up bm's

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    Doesn't matter what you say about bm. Its consistently bottom 5 every week on logs. Just check the weekly logs posted on mmo champ or icy-veins, checking where classes are. What op is smoking, i don't know. its strong as fuck in outdoor content where your pet can tank. But raids they are rather weak compared to others

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...6#class=Hunter
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...0&difficulty=4
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st.../26#dataset=90

    Mythic and hc they are consistently among the bottom 3 week after week. Its obviously because they are "wicked strong" as people claim in this thread.

    They are viable and easy to play, but they are not good compared to other classes/specs
    Logs don't mean anything tho.
    If fire was 5% behind dps of frost, no one would play fire.

    That's how a spec ends up at the bottom. Because there a better alternative. Doesn't matter how much better. Competitive players won't chose the weaker spec. Which also would not get them invited.

  14. #194
    It sounds like you maybe don't know the spec as good as you thought.

  15. #195
    mm only doe around 10% more dps, i dunno what you smoke man haha

    anyway, at the reset they buff the bm by 5% so it should be at the same level or really close to mm at dps

  16. #196
    People who say that BM is easily obviously haven't tried weaving cleave into maintaining 3 stacks of frenzy while ensuring maximum uptime on SFE.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by kaintk View Post
    mm only doe around 10% more dps, i dunno what you smoke man haha

    anyway, at the reset they buff the bm by 5% so it should be at the same level or really close to mm at dps
    In single target sure I would agree, but in AoE MM has the clear advantage.
    Personally I raid with BM (only on HC) but in M+ I'm pretty much forced to go MM to deliver the needed AoE.

    So the 5% buff is nice, but I would also like to see something to bring us more on par AoE wise.

  18. #198
    BM Hunters doing good? You must be high or something.


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  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by ReleaseDay View Post
    At least BM. It's so weak its not fun to play and i'm therefor leaning towards unsub. I struggle doing normal WQs, I lose almost all 1v1 wpvp, in BG's im basically a critter.

    This coming from someone who knows the spec inside out, and with "decent" gear (including BiS 190ilvl wep).

    Those of you who switched over to MM, tell me your experience. I have a bunch of alt, but this is my main and considering the unbelivably slow grind with covenants, the maw etc, I will not play alts in this expansion.
    Its the easiest spec in the game, by far.

    Unlimited movement + ranged + various buffs.

    You literally need to be bottom dps to be balanced.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    People who say that BM is easily obviously haven't tried weaving cleave into maintaining 3 stacks of frenzy while ensuring maximum uptime on SFE.
    That's because 99% of people who claim BM is faceroll easy hasn't ever played BM beyond doing some world quests and LFR.
    They look at the skill floor of BM, which is basically: press every button on CD, keep the pet on 'assist', don't stop moving and you do decent damage on top of having an easy time in open world content.

    That's fine, but the skill of a class is determined by the ceiling (as in how much can I optimize to get more dps) rather than the skill floor (as in, how easy is it to play the class and get the bare minimum of results).

    BM has gained quite a lot of skill ceiling improvements over the last few years.
    - Frenzy stacks (there is actually a huge delta in the uptime of frenzy between good BM players and bad BM players, as the latter mostly spam Barbed Shot)
    - Beast Cleave uptime (especially now that Rapid Reload is no longer a thing, the cutoff for 'spamming' Multishot is a lot higher than your general M+/Raid AoE pack)
    - Proper Cobra Shot usage (making sure you are both not spending too much focus and making the most efficient use of the KC CDR)
    - SFE uptime (the mechanic is annoying and clunky, but it does increase skill cap)
    - Pet Positioning (for AoE quite important and also something that a lot of players overlook as a skill ceiling factor)
    Individually they're not all HUGE factors, but together they add up.

    Looking purely at the rotation and stuff to keep track of, BM isn't in the harder segment of classes, but I probably wouldn't place it at the bottom either.

    Then there is the ever lasting argument of BM is easy, because it's completely mobile.
    Which, admittedly is a really big boon, but it's advantage is overvalued on such a level that it taken a whole life on it's own.

    Most casters have much more mobility than people want to admit; and all casters have abilities to use when they do have to move. As soon as you know a class well enough to know what to do when you do have to move (e.g use filler abilities / refresh DoTs), you lose surprisingly little dps over the course of a fight.

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