absolutely worthless now

[Wilfire]

The 5% buff did fuck all

[ZazuuPriest]

mm only doe around 10% more dps, i dunno what you smoke man haha

anyway, at the reset they buff the bm by 5% so it should be at the same level or really close to mm at dps

i mean ST sure but BM doesn't have the AE capability of MM and that's why its garbo in M+

[Segus1992]

75% of all matches I did carrying people in 2s or 3s arena between 1400 and 1700 mmr are around 220 ilvl. Some 224-226. I barely see anyone below 215.
Rbg above 1.8k is even worse.

That's my impression. Also there was quite a lot of time to achieve like 1.8k in pvp which puts you automatically in the 220 range and it's not even remotely hard to achieve.

You really can't be delusional enough to think the average player has 1800 rating. And that's below the "average 225" lunacy.

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BM with soulforge embers is much harder to play in AOE situations than Balance with stellar drift is.

But Balance does 40% more damage than BM does in that situation.

Please explain?

SFE isn't hard, it's tedious and requires a tank's help to maximize. Not saying Balance is harder in that case, but I'm also not saying Balance is the spec that should be #1, only that BM isn't a terrible fit for last spot in a perfect world where effort and skill translates into DPS.

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WoW isn't a game where you get to play what build and spec you want anymore, they've tuned everything too tight and don't know how to develop around it, specifically with class design. Why else would BDK (A TANK SPEC) need a 20% armor buff every expansion launch?

"Oh all the tanks are even"
"Wait, no, this one needs a 20% armor buff and doesn't get invited to groups"

When you try to play what you want, it's basically the equivalent of "just be yourself" and you're ugly and obese, but you're trying to ask out women who look like super models and people just keep telling you to be yourself and don't change anything. Not sure why the community lies so much.

All the while your entire guild will reroll FOTM, then you will look like a jack ass on bottom of the meters "playing what you want".

Eh no, not true. The buff to BDKs actual armor was more like 5-10%. Really not that significant in the grand scheme of balance.

[ClassicPeon]

I nor you never said only hunters. Even you talked about "easiest spec in the game", not only hunters.

Try not changing the poles next time

Changing poles?

BM is the easiest spec in the game. And you are talking the aboslute outliers here. You are talking people getting chain buffed by SP and so on. Noone is gonna do that to a BM. You are also talking 20k+ logs vs 2k logs for BM. The difference is probably more like 20% from top to BM

[Primetimex]

You really can't be delusional enough to think the average player has 1800 rating. And that's below the "average 225" lunacy.

By the amount of pvp boosts happening, this should be around average, ye. But if youre not even able to reach 1.8k (even with goldboost) you're not eligible to claim a class is bad/broken/whatever imo. Such a person is not even capable of playing his own class at 20% what it could do. Thats what i would call way below average. Just talking from a professional perspective here, while "we" have boosted a good over 3000 chars to those ratings now just in SL. And thats just a fraction of the total. I dont wanna know how many thousands blazing is doing per week.

Even running around in oribos inspecting, barely anyone is below 215.

[kiramon]

People who say that BM is easily obviously haven't tried weaving cleave into maintaining 3 stacks of frenzy while ensuring maximum uptime on SFE.

Or they just played other classes that are more complicated than 'maintain 3 stacks' and cast flare.

[Segus1992]

By the amount of pvp boosts happening, this should be around average, ye. But if youre not even able to reach 1.8k (even with goldboost) you're not eligible to claim a class is bad/broken/whatever imo. Such a person is not even capable of playing his own class at 20% what it could do. Thats what i would call way below average. Just talking from a professional perspective here, while "we" have boosted a good over 3000 chars to those ratings now just in SL. And thats just a fraction of the total. I dont wanna know how many thousands blazing is doing per week.

Even running around in oribos inspecting, barely anyone is below 215.

First class delusion.

[KrayZ33]

By the amount of pvp boosts happening, this should be around average, ye. But if youre not even able to reach 1.8k (even with goldboost) you're not eligible to claim a class is bad/broken/whatever imo. Such a person is not even capable of playing his own class at 20% what it could do. Thats what i would call way below average. Just talking from a professional perspective here, while "we" have boosted a good over 3000 chars to those ratings now just in SL. And thats just a fraction of the total. I dont wanna know how many thousands blazing is doing per week.

Even running around in oribos inspecting, barely anyone is below 215.

Delusional.

You can check in less than 5 minutes that 225 is not the average by looking at warcraftlogs

Shriekwing Mythic 2 weeks -
Marksman 1222 parses @ ilvl 224-226
Marksman 5820 parses @ ilvl 221-223
Marksman 36672 parses @ all item-levels

And that's just mythic, which the average person doesn't even go into.

Shriekwing Heroic 2 weeks
Marksman 102271 parses @ all item-levels (out of which less than 1000 are @ 224-226 - actually somewhat likely that they are the same 1000 that went into Mythic with that itemlevel since heroic post skip/sludge drop 220 loot and they might still farm that for other guild members)

so basically.
1% is at your assumed average
I'd say the average raider is around 215-220, with mythic raiders closer to 220 and heroic raiders closer to 215

[kukkamies]

Changing poles?

BM is the easiest spec in the game. And you are talking the aboslute outliers here. You are talking people getting chain buffed by SP and so on. Noone is gonna do that to a BM. You are also talking 20k+ logs vs 2k logs for BM. The difference is probably more like 20% from top to BM

BM is easy ye. So are other classes who are at the very top of dps meters. Boomkin is probably 2nd easiest spec in the game? And at very top.

Around 20-30% worse on other bosses ye. It's insane how bad BM is this tier. Can't believe you are okay when a spec is completely trashed.

[ClassicPeon]

BM is easy ye. So are other classes who are at the very top of dps meters. Boomkin is probably 2nd easiest spec in the game? And at very top.

Around 20-30% worse on other bosses ye. It's insane how bad BM is this tier. Can't believe you are okay when a spec is completely trashed.

I'm not saying they shouldnt get a buff. The only thing i've said is that they should probably be the lowest dps every single tier

[kukkamies]

I'm not saying they shouldnt get a buff. The only thing i've said is that they should probably be the lowest dps every single tier

Well that's good. It seemed like you were saying they shouldn't be even relevant compared to others.
If they are 3-7% worse than tops then I'd be fine with it too. Would need some giant buffs and nerfing the top though.

[Deepsresso]

I saw this thread and decide to make an account.

I can see that you love BM more than MM due to various reasons, fantasy/feeling etc etc; but those are not valid reasons to claim that BM is fine compared to MM or that "but my guild mate is doing well" -where in LFR? HC? Myth? Percentile?

No matter how want you to believe it, but MM is the strongest spec atm, doing better at anything,ST CLEAVE or AOE, BM lost too much from BFA to SL, no more AOTW+PI - DOD.
If you take into consideration that MM is way above BM in dps and utility atm DESPITE MM legendary begin terrible compared to BM one.


Also you can clearly see with logs that at the same itm lvl AND similar DPS (so for example 2 hunters 220 at 5k and 5.1k dps on the same fight) BM do orange logs while MM do purple often, that means that even with the BIS GEAR BM is way far behind MM.

[mistmitpandas]

BM needs 20-25% buff. The end.

[vashe9]

With the 5% buff it's better, still lower than almost any spec in the game but not that far... It's perfectly viable, if they really wanted to buff us they would've done more than 5%

I'm 4/10 MM (could've been 5/10 easily if not for fails.. well), and I timed some 16 prior to the buff... YES it's viable, not optimal but viable...

I'm sure you can clear any 15 key with 3 bm hunters if your tank/healers have enough interrupts...

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You are sailing against the wind here, while everyone else is on their MM jet scooters. That's the life you chose, stay strong.

Couldn't have done it myself tbh. Went Venthyr hunter because I liked the theme, but after some time of being outclassed by other hunters in both ST and AoE I caved in. Wonder how well would Venthyr BM perform.

Bad, it's the worst signature ability, even with lucky procs you cant match NF even in single target.... multitarget is not even worth mentioning... By giving up NF, you pretty much give up your only aoe cooldown. AotW is just a 10% crit + focus regen now...

[Primetimex]

First class delusion.

If you say so. Yet, these numbers are also true and its your personal given average you have to deal with at this stage.

Delusional.

1% is at your assumed average
I'd say the average raider is around 215-220, with mythic raiders closer to 220 and heroic raiders closer to 215

He was mainly talking about Pvp and WQ. Sure its harder to get to 225 in Raids. For pvp i gave you the state and the numbers. Queue any game above 1500 mmr and you'll see. We also pushed many hunters with 200-205 ilvl to 1,6k or 1,8k. Doable with every of the 3 speccs.
Its the same with people complaining about rogues are op. They're deffo not. Actually, they're in a rather bad state rn.

[vashe9]

I'm only missing one m+15 for the achiev, no one in my guild has the key. I try to queue.... I WRITE IN MY NOTE THAN IM BM. And people still kick me after grouping me. HOLY ***** I hate people in this game

[Boniewow]

Dungeons: Still very much at the top of the pack. Im out dpsing MM hunters with a higher ilvl,
And comments like BM perfectly fine have no problem doing dailies.
what are you smoking people?
Even after the buff best dungeon i did mine 1st 15 plague . boomkin.feral and me Boss dmg was fine on trash which is the key to make in time even all mine cds was 40-50% behind on aoe.least lol. dont even talk when i was whit fire mage.14k aoe he doing 35k+.
so yeh if you aiming keys 10 at max we fine if you want too time higher keys the uncapped aoe dps basickly carry you whit this point. That applies for ofc other classes whit low aoe to.
So tried all those Bm hunters saying it is fine when just got too lvl 60 never done any high staff yet.

[T-34]

I'm only missing one m+15 for the achiev, no one in my guild has the key. I try to queue.... I WRITE IN MY NOTE THAN IM BM. And people still kick me after grouping me. HOLY ***** I hate people in this game

Strangers don't owe you anything. If they don't want to play with a BM then it is their right.
I play BM with my guildies and MM when I pug. I do prefer BM, but I am adult enough to understand that I am not entitled to be invited to other people's group and if it is MM they want then I can either not do a key or play MM.
You should try to understand how other people think, not because you should think like they do, but because that makes it easier for you to achieve what you want.

P.S.
And there are good reasons why people prefer MM to BM:
1. The AoE is vastly superior and bursty to boot
2. Brings the same utility to the group as a BM + a bit extra in the form of a knockback

[kaintk]

Strangers don't owe you anything. If they don't want to play with a BM then it is their right.
I play BM with my guildies and MM when I pug. I do prefer BM, but I am adult enough to understand that I am not entitled to be invited to other people's group and if it is MM they want then I can either not do a key or play MM.
You should try to understand how other people think, not because you should think like they do, but because that makes it easier for you to achieve what you want.

P.S.
And there are good reasons why people prefer MM to BM:
1. The AoE is vastly superior and bursty to boot
2. Brings the same utility to the group as a BM + a bit extra in the form of a knockback

well from my experience, bm are good in solo (versus solo boss) but suck at big aoe
mm are good in both, its why people want mm and not bm in mm+
blizzard just need to buff a little more the bm dps and his aoe and he will suddenly be good to pick in mm+

im 197 with mine, no mm+, no raid, wq are not really hard or any big elite out there, you can solo everything fine, sometime the dps is not there, after the burst, if the elite is alive, the fight will be slow to finish on mob with more than 500k hp, the burst under the fairy convenant help a lot to destroy around 350-450k hp of the elite in a few seconds but after that, oh man, its really slow ^^

[msdos]

Strangers don't owe you anything. If they don't want to play with a BM then it is their right.
I play BM with my guildies and MM when I pug. I do prefer BM, but I am adult enough to understand that I am not entitled to be invited to other people's group and if it is MM they want then I can either not do a key or play MM.
You should try to understand how other people think, not because you should think like they do, but because that makes it easier for you to achieve what you want.

They don't have to play with him, but it's still toxic to act toxic in a children's video game. It isn't a positive experience.

Example: if everyone decides they only want to fill their groups with WW monks, that is toxic, bad for the game, stupid, etc. I mean if you wanna defend that type of behavior in a Massive MULTIPLAYER online game where you socialize with people, you're entitled to your opinion, but it's a bad opinion.
Also we all pay a subscription fee (some do), so we are actually contractually entitled to a satisfactory service.