absolutely worthless now

[T-34]

They don't have to play with him, but it's still toxic to act toxic in a children's video game. It isn't a positive experience.

Example: if everyone decides they only want to fill their groups with WW monks, that is toxic, bad for the game, stupid, etc. I mean if you wanna defend that type of behavior in a Massive MULTIPLAYER online game where you socialize with people, you're entitled to your opinion, but it's a bad opinion.
Also we all pay a subscription fee (some do), so we are actually contractually entitled to a satisfactory service.

Everybody in WoW can make their own groups and invite whomever they want, and that includes WW-monks. If you don't want to make your own group then you have to accept the demands of other people, like it or not.
And regarding socializing that is something you do in your guild. I have no obligation whatsoever to carry strangers in the game.
I do play with strangers, but only those that share my view on what is fun in-game and have a similar experience and skill as I do.

And you get what you pay for in WoW. You have to possibility to do all content in the game. It just requires the right mix of social skills/in-game skills and time. You are not entitled to my time in-game, you have to earn the right to play with me, just as I have to earn the right to play with other people.

P.S.
Many people, including me, consider people that feel entitled to the time of other people in-game to create a toxic atmosphere in-game. Isn't it nice that Blizzard doesn't force us to play together?

[vashe9]

Strangers don't owe you anything. If they don't want to play with a BM then it is their right.
I play BM with my guildies and MM when I pug. I do prefer BM, but I am adult enough to understand that I am not entitled to be invited to other people's group and if it is MM they want then I can either not do a key or play MM.
You should try to understand how other people think, not because you should think like they do, but because that makes it easier for you to achieve what you want.

P.S.
And there are good reasons why people prefer MM to BM:
1. The AoE is vastly superior and bursty to boot
2. Brings the same utility to the group as a BM + a bit extra in the form of a knockback

???
At least talk to me and say "sorry we prefer a MM spec hunter".
OR SIMPLY INSPECT MY RAIDER IO PAGE BEFORE INVITING ME IF YOU'RE **** ASKING FOR SPECIFIC RAIDER IO.

It's in big, in large, I'm BM

Not an insta kick 5 sec after joining and no answer to whisps... I'm a player not a f*** NPC, anyway I'm the first BM of my server (raider io) and I only mm+ with my guild. F* the PU, I dont need to push +20 keys anyway. I managed to push +17 in time.

I dont want to understand how these people think. I'm not their NPC, I'm not playing for them. People should learn respect.
And I wrote in CAPITAL LETTERS IN MY NOTE - !!!! I'm BM HUNTER !!!!.
Now people cant even READ ?!

I'm sure I outdps 70-80% of mm hunters with similar raider io rating. I'm sure of it.

[Biomega]

I'm not their NPC, I'm not playing for them. People should learn respect.

They aren't your NPCs either.

If you choose a spec that's less than optimal, you do it at THEIR discretion. Because they put in time, and it's your obligation to honor that time by doing the best you can. If they're fine with you doing less than you could, that's totally alright - but that's up to them to offer, not for you to demand.

And of course the same goes for all of them.

Also: you may think you can out-dps 80% of MM hunters; you may even be right. But the random PUG you're joining has no way of knowing that. They'll insure their personal time by choosing the unknown quantities that, on average, give them the best chance of the best return for their investment. Nobody is obliged to take the chances on a -EV bet just because 5% of the time you hit someone great. You play it safe, and that way you tend to lose least often.

[vashe9]

Dungeons: Still very much at the top of the pack. Im out dpsing MM hunters with a higher ilvl,
And comments like BM perfectly fine have no problem doing dailies.
what are you smoking people?
Even after the buff best dungeon i did mine 1st 15 plague . boomkin.feral and me Boss dmg was fine on trash which is the key to make in time even all mine cds was 40-50% behind on aoe.least lol. dont even talk when i was whit fire mage.14k aoe he doing 35k+.
so yeh if you aiming keys 10 at max we fine if you want too time higher keys the uncapped aoe dps basickly carry you whit this point. That applies for ofc other classes whit low aoe to.
So tried all those Bm hunters saying it is fine when just got too lvl 60 never done any high staff yet.

I outdps or was about the same dps as bad boomies in some 15-16 keys ... because having the meta class doesn't translate in good results if you're clueless about your class...

- - - Updated - - -

They aren't your NPCs either.

If you choose a spec that's less than optimal, you do it at THEIR discretion. Because they put in time, and it's your obligation to honor that time by doing the best you can. If they're fine with you doing less than you could, that's totally alright - but that's up to them to offer, not for you to demand.

And of course the same goes for all of them.

Also: you may think you can out-dps 80% of MM hunters; you may even be right. But the random PUG you're joining has no way of knowing that. They'll insure their personal time by choosing the unknown quantities that, on average, give them the best chance of the best return for their investment. Nobody is obliged to take the chances on a -EV bet just because 5% of the time you hit someone great. You play it safe, and that way you tend to lose least often.

I'm using them as NPC when I just ask that they inspect me/my items before inviting me ? Or just saying a "sorry mate, we tought you were MM we need a MM hunter :/" if they invited me

That's what raider io is for, if I timed several 17 keys and had better rio than these people, why would I have a problem to time a +14 with ANY party ?

That's what a respectable human being would do, and I'm fine with that.

[T-34]

???
At least talk to me and say "sorry we prefer a MM spec hunter".
OR SIMPLY INSPECT MY RAIDER IO PAGE BEFORE INVITING ME IF YOU'RE **** ASKING FOR SPECIFIC RAIDER IO.

It's in big, in large, I'm BM

Not an insta kick 5 sec after joining and no answer to whisps... I'm a player not a f*** NPC, anyway I'm the first BM of my server (raider io) and I only mm+ with my guild. F* the PU, I dont need to push +20 keys anyway. I managed to push +17 in time.

I dont want to understand how these people think. I'm not their NPC, I'm not playing for them. People should learn respect.
And I wrote in CAPITAL LETTERS IN MY NOTE - !!!! I'm BM HUNTER !!!!.
Now people cant even READ ?!

I'm sure I outdps 70-80% of mm hunters with similar raider io rating. I'm sure of it.

Well, you of course have the right to feel insulted about how complete strangers treat you, no matter how unproductive such feelings are, but if you want to be invited to other people's group and not being kicked then you have to abide by their rules/whims/demands, no matter how stupid they might seem.
Your only solution is to either play MM with strangers, make your own group or play with guildies.
I personally am to lazy to make my own group so I play MM with strangers and BM with guildes and don't wast my time, energy and sanity on getting mad at strangers in LFG.
Trying to change other people is in my opinion the greatest waste of time, both in WoW and in RL

[vashe9]

Well, you of course have the right to feel insulted about how complete strangers treat you, no matter how unproductive such feelings are, but if you want to be invited to other people's group and not being kicked then you have to abide by their rules/whims/demands, no matter how stupid they might seem.
Your only solution is to either play MM with strangers, make your own group or play with guildies.
I personally am to lazy to make my own group so I play MM with strangers and BM with guildes and don't wast my time, energy and sanity on getting mad at strangers in LFG.
Trying to change other people is in my opinion the greatest waste of time, both in WoW and in RL

The whole point of this thread : if BM was not this far off MM (and I didnt say better or even equivalent), there wouldn't be such a problem.

[Talon8669]

At least BM. It's so weak its not fun to play and i'm therefor leaning towards unsub. I struggle doing normal WQs, I lose almost all 1v1 wpvp, in BG's im basically a critter.

This coming from someone who knows the spec inside out, and with "decent" gear (including BiS 190ilvl wep).

Those of you who switched over to MM, tell me your experience. I have a bunch of alt, but this is my main and considering the unbelivably slow grind with covenants, the maw etc, I will not play alts in this expansion.

BM isn't very good in PvP, it has good sustain but lacks the burst that the meta is currently formed around. I am currently leveling my hunter and got attacked by a VDH and RDruid and was able to kill the VDH twice and the druid once before slipping out of the area and regrouping. This was probably a solid 5 minute fight with mobs all over my pets due to stomp. Damage wise for raids they are parsing right near the bottom of all the specs. Solo though they aren't amazingly quick at anything, again, due to their lack of burst but they do very very well due to pet tanking. You might want to switch to core hound for solo content, I found it to do very very well. Also in pvp how much vers do you have? Are you running double pvp trinkets? I think your target vers should be around 30% base for pvp.

[Mardux]

Strangers don't owe you anything. If they don't want to play with a BM then it is their right.
I play BM with my guildies and MM when I pug. I do prefer BM, but I am adult enough to understand that I am not entitled to be invited to other people's group and if it is MM they want then I can either not do a key or play MM.
You should try to understand how other people think, not because you should think like they do, but because that makes it easier for you to achieve what you want.

P.S.
And there are good reasons why people prefer MM to BM:
1. The AoE is vastly superior and bursty to boot
2. Brings the same utility to the group as a BM + a bit extra in the form of a knockback

That was obviously a dig at the people inviting them, knowing they play bm, then kicking them. Its a dick move. If you dont want a bm hunter, don't invite the person that clearly said they are bm.

All it does is force cancelation of other queues.

[T-34]

The whole point of this thread : if BM was not this far off MM (and I didnt say better or even equivalent), there wouldn't be such a problem.

Maybe, but I am doubtful. There has always been a meta, now matter how small the advantage is, for the simple reason that many people find it fun to play a game in the best possible way.
And expecting strangers to put the same value on a non-meta player as a meta-player is naive.
Only among people that know you can you expect to be valued on more than you face value.

[Indless]

Our BM hunter is not having remotely the same experience as you.

Same lol, 210 bm hunter I beat the mm hunters in our guild

[The Butt Witch]

Same lol, 210 bm hunter I beat the mm hunters in our guild

Because BM is easy to follow an optimal rotation, while MM is not so easy. Ergo you are really good at playing an easy spec, and the MM players suck at playing a more complicated one but they still do so because word on the forums is that MM is better than BM.

[ydraw]

In all honesty in pure single target faults BM is nearly as good as MM.

But BM is totally awful in AOE fights and M+ especially. If you think you're doing as much damage as MM in those situations, well you just aren't.

[Tanis]

In all honesty in pure single target faults BM is nearly as good as MM.

But BM is totally awful in AOE fights and M+ especially. If you think you're doing as much damage as MM in those situations, well you just aren't.

^^^ So true. I play both, with equal gear and the right stats/enhancements/food for each set. Although I still use BM for a couple of the raid fights that have an insane amount of movement (to keep my sanity), I've given up on BM in M+, it just doesn't have the required burst to burn down packs in a hurry. It's great if you're just doing world quests and dailies on your own time, but when you're under the clock, burst aoe is king, and unfortunately BM is lacking.

[habibsmash]

my heart is black towards this man

[Kelduril]

Same lol, 210 bm hunter I beat the mm hunters in our guild

Then the MM hunters are dogshit. MM is way better.

[Eapoe]

Then the MM hunters are dogshit. MM is way better.

It depends on the fight. Pure ST, such as Shriekwing or Hungering Destroyer, a BM Hunter could beat MM simply due to the movement involved on HD and the RNG movement of Shriekwing. This could also be the case for priority dps fights such as Blood Council with RNG movement factors.
That stated, typically MM is the better option.

[Kelduril]

It depends on the fight. Pure ST, such as Shriekwing or Hungering Destroyer, a BM Hunter could beat MM simply due to the movement involved on HD and the RNG movement of Shriekwing. This could also be the case for priority dps fights such as Blood Council with RNG movement factors.
That stated, typically MM is the better option.

MM doesn't suffer that much from movement, you can use it to Arcane shot and steady and rapid + instant Aimed Shots + Kill Shots

[thesimpsonsman]

At least BM. It's so weak its not fun to play and i'm therefor leaning towards unsub. I struggle doing normal WQs, I lose almost all 1v1 wpvp, in BG's im basically a critter.

This coming from someone who knows the spec inside out, and with "decent" gear (including BiS 190ilvl wep).

Those of you who switched over to MM, tell me your experience. I have a bunch of alt, but this is my main and considering the unbelivably slow grind with covenants, the maw etc, I will not play alts in this expansion.

I know this thread is a little old but i'll toss in my 2 cents... So yea... I've played BM a ton and obviously all of last expansion and some at the beginning of this one but if you are wanting to raid or anything close to it then MM is the way to go. I'm usually top 3-5 on all fights in Mythic CN and im always top in any mythic plus i do.. Thats not a brag, thats literally any MM hunter these days.

Honestly it took me some getting used to.. because we all know BM was just facerolling your keyboard and still being top DPS last tier but once I got the hang of MM and when to pop certain things it came naturally to me. Its easy to solo anything and honestly I'll just have my pet out and MD him all the adds and stuff if im just blasting through some Torghast. Usually WQ's i just do MM because almost everything dies with an aimed shot or two. Same with the maw, if it starts to get "tough" i just have my pet tank it and blast from far away. I think the damage you lose is only 10% which when doing solo stuff is nothing at all.

[seba]

you lose less than 10% since your pet does some dmg, plus you get access to bloodlust in open world and torghast (resets on each floor)

[munkeyinorbit]

That was obviously a dig at the people inviting them, knowing they play bm, then kicking them. Its a dick move. If you dont want a bm hunter, don't invite the person that clearly said they are bm.

All it does is force cancelation of other queues.

But how are they going to know that they're playing wrong? They need to be told and the best way is to invite, summon them and then kick them. If they don't get the message that's on them.

- - - Updated - - -

I know this thread is a little old but i'll toss in my 2 cents... So yea... I've played BM a ton and obviously all of last expansion and some at the beginning of this one but if you are wanting to raid or anything close to it then MM is the way to go. I'm usually top 3-5 on all fights in Mythic CN and im always top in any mythic plus i do.. Thats not a brag, thats literally any MM hunter these days.

Honestly it took me some getting used to.. because we all know BM was just facerolling your keyboard and still being top DPS last tier but once I got the hang of MM and when to pop certain things it came naturally to me. Its easy to solo anything and honestly I'll just have my pet out and MD him all the adds and stuff if im just blasting through some Torghast. Usually WQ's i just do MM because almost everything dies with an aimed shot or two. Same with the maw, if it starts to get "tough" i just have my pet tank it and blast from far away. I think the damage you lose is only 10% which when doing solo stuff is nothing at all.

It's prob less damage loss than that because your pet does damage as well. I only go BM now when I need a really tanky pet. Which is almost never now.