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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
    Time to compare total quests, repeatable quests, demographic..cmon, statistics and analysis can be fun but also can be no fun. this is no fun.
    And therein lies the true comparison..."fun factor."

  2. #62
    I remember the various dungeons a bit differently, also you seem to have forgotten one of the two Utgarde Keep dungeons. It should also be noted that at this time they were still designing dungeons with the idea that they were just separate wings of the same megadungeon, a lá old Blackrock depths.

    As such i'd argue it'd be better to list the dungeons as follows:
    - Azjol-Nerb (2)
    - Utgarde Keep (2)
    - Nexus (2)
    - Ulduar (2)
    - Stratholme
    - trollland (2)
    - Dalaran prison

    Seems more honest in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by apustus View Post
    No one asked.
    I always wondered what sort of strange creature would think that he could only do something if another asked him.

    It seems to imply either an insecure or servile mindset.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Respect all, submit to none.

  3. #63
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    I played the launch of both WotLK and Shadowlands now.

    I can say with 100% confidence that the WotLK launch felt very barebones and underwhelming. In terms of having meaningful and fun content to do, Shadowlands is the clear winner for me.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by ceall View Post
    creates throwaway account.
    tries saying "aktchually wras has had moar content, so shadowlands musht be lazy" on the one hand, but on the other hand also says, that wrath launch content was poorly received.
    says wrath is the expansion, that is best received by the playerbase when actually legion is rated better (AFAIK on metacritic that is).

    tl;dr: use your main account next time
    How can you make a claim like this?

    Wrath of the Lich King has higher ratings on basically all sites including metacritic. Wrath had way more players than Legion did, and is the most popular version of WoW ever.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by rmfAcc View Post
    I played the launch of both WotLK and Shadowlands now.

    I can say with 100% confidence that the WotLK launch felt very barebones and underwhelming. In terms of having meaningful and fun content to do, Shadowlands is the clear winner for me.
    I agree with you and this comes from somebody who has been a retailer hater for years.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenmaniac View Post
    How can you make a claim like this?

    Wrath of the Lich King has higher ratings on basically all sites including metacritic. Wrath had way more players than Legion did, and is the most popular version of WoW ever.
    Because Wrath presented a massive shift in terms of design philosophy.
    If you've played Vanilla and then went into TBC, it still felt overall the same, bit more improved in terms of gameplay but it felt the same.

    Wrath however, really had multiple areas where it shifted its philosophy.

    Player powercreep became absolutely noticeable in Wotlk, no longer presented a single mob some sort of hurdle to an individual player, almost any dps class just roflstomped everything because of how strong the Wotlk Talent trees were.
    Furthermore, 3.0 was an utter shitshow, it was probably one of the worst points (if not the worst) of class balance outside of Classic, DK's / Rets were just on perma godmode, while others required massive buffs to even compete with average performing specs.

    Then there is whole "AoE Dungeon zergfest", if you've played TBC and liked Heroic dungeons, oh boy you were in for a disappointment, no longer "Hey, we need to CC those mobs" or "really important to kick that cast" or "Need an SP to MC one add, so the rest of the pack kills it for us".

    Tank goes in.
    Dps starting spamming AoE abilities.
    Mobs die.
    Rinse and repeat next pack.

    Wotlk Heroics were an absolute joke if you've played TBC heroics, especially at launch.

    Then there is raid difficulty, before Wotlk, PUG raiding wasn't that super common, you maybe had like some Karazhan pugs initially but those didn't come that far usually, while pugs obviously managed to clear Karazhan (and later Raids such as Gruul / Magtheridon) later on, there were still enough raids left were pugs absoutely the exception (I'm ignoring any late TBC shenanigans due to infamous 30% nerf here).

    In Wotlk, you could pug any launch content from week one, Naxx 10 / 25 were an absolute joke, neither Sartharion (at least non Hardmode) or Malygos represented some massive hurdle for pugs as well.
    The only thing that required an organized group were Naxx Achievements (Immortal / Undying) or Sartharion+3D, and sadly even Sartharion+3D had zerg strats in 10 and 25 man.

    In 10man, you could just nuke the boss with 1 healer, 1 tank and 8 well geared DPS, in 25man, you could just use a Voidwalker to tank the boss (Warlock with specific gear was necessary, though) and then the entire difficulty of the encounter fell apart because you could take your time to kill any drake.

    The launch content of Wotlk was a massive disappointment for everyone that was into organized raiding in Vanilla / TBC.
    I could go on, but while Wotlk was still enjoyable, it was very bad for anyone of the more engaged players initially, and some of the things introduced in Wotlk are still something i have an issue with to this day.

    The reason(s) why Wotlk is fondly remembered is probably because:
    1. While massive changes were made, it still felt very similiar to Classic / TBC, while classes were much stronger, it still felt very similiar to the "original"
    2. A lot of players started around that time or got more engaged with the game (as Wotlk quite simply was more towards catering casual players)
    3. Its gameplay has aged a lot better than Classic / TBC
    4. Class balance, while still being far from perfect, improved a lot of over the course of Wotlk
    5. While the launch raidcontent was disappointing for organized raiders, they followed it up with challenging from then on, keeping those people occupied.

    I'm not saying that Wrath is better / worse than Legion, but if you want to know why Wotlk was initially a rather controversial expansion at the time, there it is.
    Also, Legion may have the bonus of following up on WoD, which obviously makes the expansion appear a lot better because of how bad the previous one was.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-12-05 at 02:36 PM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I can't speak for everyone, but Shadowlands is the first expansion in a long time where I feel almost overwhelmed with things to do on a daily basis.
    That’s funny because in my guild we’ve talked about how it’s nice you only have 1 or 2 things to do each day. Some of us have leveled alts just to have stuff to do.

  8. #68
    Bloodsail Admiral tommyhil622's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    That’s funny because in my guild we’ve talked about how it’s nice you only have 1 or 2 things to do each day. Some of us have leveled alts just to have stuff to do.
    Yea that's more about the gating than anything else. Each week i've done everything i needed to do on Tuesday, after that i'm basically gated till the following week. I started an alt for the same reason.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    i mean obviously there was, the question is, was that content better?
    Yes naxx existed.. but it was a recycle
    yeah there was tons of raids... but they were 1 boss fight
    yeah there was tyons of dungeons, but most of them were just the exact same skins, multiple dungeons that could have just been.. 1 dungeon.

    Here is the thing about game development

    back in the day the style of game design was
    quantity over quality.
    now adays its the opposite. less raids, but the raids are MUCH more detailed.
    imo this is a mischaracterization of wotlk.

    The biggest difference between Wrath and SL is that one wasn't gated. I never felt i ran out of things to do in wrath. It wasn't till late into the expac that i felt that way. And mostly because Blizz took too long to release the next expac. But in the beginning? I was busy in wrath.

  9. #69
    I had the fondest memories about WOTLK heroics.

    - Utgarde Keep (Popular/Fun)
    Easiest

    - Azjol-Nerub (Unpopular/Many players would leave early on)
    It can get annoying, but it is not hard if know how to free others.

    - The Nexus (Unpopular/Avoid by many)
    I thought it is easy. A quick way to get 5 emblems.

    - Violet Hold (Short and repertitive.. was in Dalaran)
    It randomly selects 2 bosses out of 6.


    - Ahn'kahet: The Old Kingdom (Often confused with Azjol-Nerub)
    Hardest

    - Halls of Stone (Pretty popular)
    The last event (boss) can be tricky.

    - Halls of Lightning (Fast paced and fairly well-liked)
    In theory, this should be the hardest because it is in the last zone.
    The last boss can one shot you if you have bad gear.

    - The Oculus (Not popular/many complaints)
    Take the longest time to finish.
    Not worth the time for emblems.

  10. #70
    Banned FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhil622 View Post
    Yea that's more about the gating than anything else. Each week i've done everything i needed to do on Tuesday, after that i'm basically gated till the following week. I started an alt for the same reason.

    - - - Updated - - -



    imo this is a mischaracterization of wotlk.

    The biggest difference between Wrath and SL is that one wasn't gated. I never felt i ran out of things to do in wrath. It wasn't till late into the expac that i felt that way. And mostly because Blizz took too long to release the next expac. But in the beginning? I was busy in wrath.
    "One wasnt gated"

    I mean it 100% was, idk what your talking about

    ICC was gated, you could only do the first 4 bosses week 1. then you had the plague wing, then the blood wing, then the frost wing, then the lich king.
    And these were split over 2 weeks each. it took almost 2 months for ICC to fully open.

    pair that with the need for dailies, daily capped badges for teir gear
    etc etc

  11. #71
    Bloodsail Admiral tommyhil622's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    "One wasnt gated"

    I mean it 100% was, idk what your talking about

    ICC was gated, you could only do the first 4 bosses week 1. then you had the plague wing, then the blood wing, then the frost wing, then the lich king.
    And these were split over 2 weeks each. it took almost 2 months for ICC to fully open.

    pair that with the need for dailies, daily capped badges for teir gear
    etc etc
    Icc wasn't open in the beginning of the expac... not sure why you even brought that up...

    This thread is about comparing the beginning of each expac. SL is artificially gated right now where wotlk wasn't at its start.

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