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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post
    Here is the actual quote:
    I don't need the link, I literally already addressed that Wowhead page, and again, it's not reliable. Ion had the actual interview with Windows Central, and Windows Central reports the exact words:

    Frankly, it's almost the opposite of a challenge. I think it's an easier way to tell a story and set up an expansion with very clear theming, harkening back to the wrath or our Cataclysm Deathwing days.

    Part of why we didn't openly talk about who the end boss of some recent expansions was going to be, was that it wouldn't have made sense if we said it at the time. It would have given away story spoilers or twists and turns along the way. Starting out in Warlords of Draenor and being told, "hey, you're gonna fight Archimonde at the end of this one" would have been kind of a head-scratcher when it comes to understanding the theming of the expansion.

    But here, there is a major, Titan-level antagonist that we are facing. And we have many steps in our journey to uncover the nature of the Jailor's plan, and put together the forces and support to even have a chance against him. And the story is going to wind its way through all the Shadowlands and our content updates until we ultimately do get a chance to confront the Jailor himself.
    https://web.archive.org/web/20200714...on-hazzikostas

    Tell me, what could possibly be more reliable than the website that literally had the interview with Ion?

    And regardless this is about Denathrius, not the Jailer. There are several ambiguities related to these interviews, which I already mentioned earlier.

    Killing the "raid team" is a feat several bosses have accomplished before Argus
    No, only the Lich King accomplished that before.

    As I said before, everything still existed even after he used End of All Things.
    Of course Argus didn't end everything, still the title and description of that ability were reviewed by the team and made it live, so what do you think Blizzard wanted to convey? Furthermore, Argus wiped out the raid team while they were wielding the most powerful weapons in the cosmos and were aided by the Titans, meanwhile Denathrius fails to defeat the raid team, which this time is deprived of powerful artifact weapons or the Heart of Azeroth.

    I already said this by the way.

    As I said before, Aman'thul ripped out the strongest Old God from Azeroth with ease. N'Zoth is weaker than the other Old Gods and much much weaker than any Titans.
    And that's why I said he was POTENTIALLY the strongest.
    BTW, I used the term parasites because Old Gods are parasitic life forms
    Exactly what I said in the post above yours, did you not read it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Athorha View Post
    This post is about denathrius power, not argus.,, just because the op added 1 line at the end referencing the possibility of a conclusions OTHERS may make, doesn't give someone justification to derail and add information completely irrelevant to the PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD "How powerful do you think Sire Denathrius is lorewise?"
    No, this thread is about how Denathrius compares to the other raid bosses. Literally, ALL questions of the OP are about that:

    First question (where he asks to compare Denathrius to other villains):

    how does he compare to other villains in WoW?
    Second question (where he asks how Denathrius compares to the "high tier" in the universe):
    Old God Tier? Arch/KJ tier? Perhaps even Titan Tier?
    Third question (where he literally asks how he compares to Argus):

    Do you think lorewise, he will be most powerful character players will face so far, even surpassing Argus?
    Go act snarky towards someone else, because it won't work with me. I rarely make mistakes.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-12-05 at 01:18 PM.

  2. #62
    I'm curious if N'zoth actually did corrupt Azeroth, if it would be N'zoth itself controlling the Titan... Or Azeroth awaken in a darken form, destroying N'zoth in the process. Because I don't find N'zoth just in his regular old god form to be more powerful than Denathrius... in fact I don't think any Old God is in their base form. Old Gods seemed more about corruption and taking advantage of the chaos they bring, rather than raw power. But If N'zoth or any Old God does control Azeroth when corrupted, then yes N'zoth theoretically would be far more powerful than Denathrius or any other villain.

    But I kind of feel like this isn't the case, and that N'zoth had different motives than corrupting Azeroth. I mainly think this because of Deathwing, and in End Time, Deathwing succeeded, and Azeroth became a dead world, which I define as the World Soul being dead. It's possible that N'zoth would be destroyed in the process of the Titan being awakened in a void form, so maybe he would rather have lived, and have a dead Azeroth as a planet to himself.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    People just casually saying daddy dreadlord is stronger than Archimonde and KJ who were previously the second and third strongest beings in the universe despite being in the first raid tier.
    "The jailer is titan++ tier"
    "But muh lore expansion"
    This DBZ exponential power level spiral has finally gone off the rails.
    Finally? I'd say it went off the rails when Blizzard cooked up planet sized beings that can cleave worlds in two with a sword long ago. No coming back from there.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    I'm curious if N'zoth actually did corrupt Azeroth, if it would be N'zoth itself controlling the Titan... Or Azeroth awaken in a darken form, destroying N'zoth in the process. Because I don't find N'zoth just in his regular old god form to be more powerful than Denathrius... in fact I don't think any Old God is in their base form. Old Gods seemed more about corruption and taking advantage of the chaos they bring, rather than raw power. But If N'zoth or any Old God does control Azeroth when corrupted, then yes N'zoth theoretically would be far more powerful than Denathrius or any other villain.
    That's why I said that potentially he could have been the strongest. I know very well that N'Zoth by himself is weaker than the Titans, but potentially he could have taken control of a Void Titan and added her strength to his own (again, it depends on whether this Void Titan is a sentient beast or a minion controlled by the parasite).

    But I kind of feel like this isn't the case, and that N'zoth had different motives than corrupting Azeroth. I mainly think this because of Deathwing, and in End Time, Deathwing succeeded, and Azeroth became a dead world, which I define as the World Soul being dead. It's possible that N'zoth would be destroyed in the process of the Titan being awakened in a void form, so maybe he would rather have lived, and have a dead Azeroth as a planet to himself.
    Two explanations:

    1) Blizzard hadn't come up with the whole backstory of the Old Gods and Void Titan yet (the most likely one, as the End Times was released in 2011, while the Chronicles were released in 2016. 5 years is a long time to revise and modify some concepts).

    2) The planet doesn't cease to exist just because a Titan is born. Argus was still an intact planet despite its Titan having awakened. Most likely the host planet is fractured by the birth of the World Soul, which would leave a massive hole in the planet's surface as it literally leaves it (Argus has a huge hole in it where the World Soul resided, after all). So that End Times scenario could just depict a version of Azeroth after the World Soul was already born and forcefully emerged from the planet, which left it in a sort of apocalyptic state.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-12-05 at 09:45 PM.

  5. #65
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    Denathrius is of course a part of the "Pantheon" of the Shadowlands, or the First Ones. He appears to be very effective in draining anima from souls, and theoretically using said Anima to make himself even more powerful. His sword also appears to be quite powerful as well, and even has a soul in it that gives it thought and personality. While clearly he is in the upper tiers of power within the Shadowlands itself, how does he compare to other villains in WoW? Old God Tier? Arch/KJ tier? Perhaps even Titan Tier? Do you think lorewise, he will be most powerful character players will face so far, even surpassing Argus?
    How can he be the final boss in the first raid of an x-pac, yet lorewise surpassing Titans or Argus?

    I mean..until now I am just questing...so..he is like whoever heads the other covenants. I dind't get a feeling that he is more powerful than the Winter Queen or the Arbiter, but maybe I missed stuff?

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Finally? I'd say it went off the rails when Blizzard cooked up planet sized beings that can cleave worlds in two with a sword long ago. No coming back from there.
    We never fought Sargeras (which was the right call imo) though.

    The point is big ol papa S has been the mountain for 20 years, he was it, the peak. Just because blizzard bit the bullet in legion and crossed him out doesn't suddenly mean they have to whip titan level beings out in every new expansion (blizards words not mine).
    To be a threat an antagonist just has to be contextualized as strong/crafty enough for someone to suspend their disbelief that they could realistically win. N'zoth is not titan++ tier but he was still able to threaten Azeroth.
    If after shadowlands blizzard feels to need to asspull some new random titan-level entity every expansion things are going to get silly on meta-level very quickly.

    Sire Denathrius doesn't have to be 'easily as strong' as Archimonde to be a threat, all that road leads to is crazy short-sighted exponent shounen power scaling. I sincerely doubt, for example, Cho'gall is stronger then ragnaros simply he was a first-tier endboss after rag was.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Like any anime? :P
    Exactly. Cell or Boo was the mega super powerful when they were introduced.. But Jiren, Beerus & Broly could litterally break reality with just the force of their punches against Goku

    Awsome signature and avatar made by Kuragalolz

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    We never fought Sargeras (which was the right call imo) though.

    The point is big ol papa S has been the mountain for 20 years, he was it, the peak. Just because blizzard bit the bullet in legion and crossed him out doesn't suddenly mean they have to whip titan level beings out in every new expansion (blizards words not mine).
    To be a threat an antagonist just has to be contextualized as strong/crafty enough for someone to suspend their disbelief that they could realistically win. N'zoth is not titan++ tier but he was still able to threaten Azeroth.
    If after shadowlands blizzard feels to need to asspull some new random titan-level entity every expansion things are going to get silly on meta-level very quickly.

    Sire Denathrius doesn't have to be 'easily as strong' as Archimonde to be a threat, all that road leads to is crazy short-sighted exponent shounen power scaling. I sincerely doubt, for example, Cho'gall is stronger then ragnaros simply he was a first-tier endboss after rag was.
    Oh, on that we agree then. They didn't need to make the Jailer so damn powerful. Just say we're in his domain and it's bad news bears if he breaks out of it because no force in the Shadowlands can oppose him and that's enough.

    Denathrius didn't get a similar powerscale and that's fine. Who cares if he's stronger than KJ or whatever, point is he can kill people by just waving his eyebrows around so his sword does the job and has ruled over a realm of Death for eons. Thus he's strong enough to warrant being a raid boss. End of discussion.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  9. #69
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryonas View Post
    Denathrius, Primus, Kyrestia, and the Winter Queen are NOT the First Ones. The First Ones are going to end up being true god-level beings, like Elune.
    Except..... Winter Queen refers to "my sister", which is speculated to be Elune.

    Titans were Pantheon of Order. Sargeras was the most powerful.
    Eternal Ones are Pantheon of Death. Zovaal is the most powerful.
    Elune is speculated to be (a member of) Pantheon of Life. We don't know if Elune is the only one or one of several.

    All are similar in power, although there are slight differences.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > MoP > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    People just casually saying daddy dreadlord is stronger than Archimonde and KJ who were previously the second and third strongest beings in the universe despite being in the first raid tier.
    "The jailer is titan++ tier"
    "But muh lore expansion"
    This DBZ exponential power level spiral has finally gone off the rails.
    Old Gods: exist
    Prime Naaru: exist
    Murmur: exists
    Dragon Aspects (before power loss): exist
    Other Titans: possibly exist
    Elune: exists
    Void Lords: exist

    Some random person from the forum: ''Archimonde and KJ who were previously the second and third strongest beings in the universe''

    Archimonde and Kil'jaeden were NEVER considered the strongest beings in the universe. They are the strongest in the Legion after Sargeras, but there is a HUGE power gap between them and Sargeras.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    Denathrius is of course a part of the "Pantheon" of the Shadowlands, or the First Ones. He appears to be very effective in draining anima from souls, and theoretically using said Anima to make himself even more powerful. His sword also appears to be quite powerful as well, and even has a soul in it that gives it thought and personality. While clearly he is in the upper tiers of power within the Shadowlands itself, how does he compare to other villains in WoW? Old God Tier? Arch/KJ tier? Perhaps even Titan Tier? Do you think lorewise, he will be most powerful character players will face so far, even surpassing Argus?
    I think Odyn could take him pretty reliably, so more like keeper or prime-keeper level.
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  12. #72
    How ever strong he needs to be

  13. #73
    i don't think he's that powerful at all and that he got most of his power from his sword.

    aftering seeing the cinematic, i'm pretty sure the sword was a prototype for frostmourne or some such. the design is somewhat similar and it seems to suck up anima/souls/things. + the fact that the sword survived the fight, it's going to play some part in the future. probably made by the runecarver before he got imprisoned, or possibly smuggled out of the maw when he made his deal with the jailer.

  14. #74
    I cant wrap my head around these Eternal Ones being on the same level as the Titans. They just dont seem so in practice. They are similar in the sense of being the creator/shaper but the Titans are like a planet. Just look at Sargeras in the Antorus cutscene. Aman'Thul also casually ripped an Old God off Azeroth. While with someone like Denathrius we can still physically fight him.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2020-12-13 at 10:57 AM.

  15. #75
    Guys, even though Sire Denathrius is one of the coolest characters I've seen in a long time.. and I enjoyed him immensely...

    His power level seems to be WAY below the Titans, I would say below an Old God possibly, even below the likes of Archimonde/KJ

    The reason is simple: even if Blizz says in a presentation they are "titan level, with the Jailer titan ++ etc."... that cannot be considered cannon, if the reality of the story proves otherwise...

    Example: if every military institute on Earth, every Ministry of Defense, every University study etc... ranked let's say X country's military as top 10 in the World... but that country lost easily in a military contest that lasted a few days.. suffering defeat from a military ranked n. 30... is it really the 10th best in the world?

    The reality is Denathrius got owned at the start of the Expansion extremely easy... The "Mastermind" who planned a conspiracy over untold number of eons... who send the Nathrezim (based on the book ingame) to infiltrate the cosmic forces.. possibly millenia before our time... and was winning that war.... that guy got beaten clean by a couple of mortal Azerothian soldiers... in 3 weeks after they ventured in Shadowlands...

    So he plotted for millenia against the cosmic forces... he was winning handily... and got punked easily by a few mortal soldiers in 3 weeks (this is the real timeframe lore-wise) after they entered the Shadowlands...

    This is cartoon-level stuff Villains for 7 year olds.. Damn...

  16. #76
    Probably KJ/Archi level, the only enemy so far that seem to be on Titan or even Old God level is the Jailer.

  17. #77
    Herald of the Titans Lora's Avatar
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    not strong enough for 10-30 maw walkers to waltz right into his castle and kill him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uggorthaholy View Post
    Thanks but no thanks, Lora, for making me question everything in existence forever.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    I'm curious if N'zoth actually did corrupt Azeroth, if it would be N'zoth itself controlling the Titan... Or Azeroth awaken in a darken form, destroying N'zoth in the process. Because I don't find N'zoth just in his regular old god form to be more powerful than Denathrius... in fact I don't think any Old God is in their base form. Old Gods seemed more about corruption and taking advantage of the chaos they bring, rather than raw power. But If N'zoth or any Old God does control Azeroth when corrupted, then yes N'zoth theoretically would be far more powerful than Denathrius or any other villain.

    But I kind of feel like this isn't the case, and that N'zoth had different motives than corrupting Azeroth. I mainly think this because of Deathwing, and in End Time, Deathwing succeeded, and Azeroth became a dead world, which I define as the World Soul being dead. It's possible that N'zoth would be destroyed in the process of the Titan being awakened in a void form, so maybe he would rather have lived, and have a dead Azeroth as a planet to himself.
    No because their method was explained that they actually need to reach the world soul which requires growth and time neither of which he had. He was stomped by Ysharj, blocked out more than likely by the stronger not stomped ones, and then jailed. They don't just magically corrupt them. They're basically void lord semen trying to reach the egg.

  19. #79
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Powerful enough to face one of his fellow Eternal ones but he is also incredibly prideful, he may just not use everything at his disposal.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

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