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  1. #1

    How powerful do you think Sire Denathrius is lorewise?

    Denathrius is of course a part of the "Pantheon" of the Shadowlands, or the First Ones. He appears to be very effective in draining anima from souls, and theoretically using said Anima to make himself even more powerful. His sword also appears to be quite powerful as well, and even has a soul in it that gives it thought and personality. While clearly he is in the upper tiers of power within the Shadowlands itself, how does he compare to other villains in WoW? Old God Tier? Arch/KJ tier? Perhaps even Titan Tier? Do you think lorewise, he will be most powerful character players will face so far, even surpassing Argus?

  2. #2
    His not a First One.

    I reckon his'll be equivalent to kil'jeaden etc. I reckon that despite being of equivalence to the Titans in rank the Titans will be more powerful. Mainly because (assuming there are infinite Eternal Ones for the infinite Afterlives) there are more eternal ones then titans so receive a smaller fraction of the power for thier place in the cosmic hierarchy. This is pure speculation

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire BrintoSFJ's Avatar
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    The Pantheon of Death are Titan+ but Jailer among them is Titan++.
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  4. #4
    As powerful as the story needs him to be.

    AKA now he's super duper strong and stronger than a titan and everything before him to hype him up, but next big bads will be stronger and shit on everything before.

  5. #5
    The most powerful villain ever faced remains Argus the Unmaker. This is for two reasons:

    1) If you will recall, Argus had an ability literally called "End of All Things", and the description even says "Argus ends creation, killing everything". Obviously that ability didn't literally kill everyone in existence, but still the writers clearly wanted to convey something by choosing that particular title and description;

    2) To give further credence to the boast of this ability, the adventure guide says the following at the end:

    Begin the end of all things.
    So the take-away from all of this is that, had Argus the Unmaker been allowed to unleash his powers, he would have been able to wipe out all life in existence. Don't forget that Argus was the Titan of DEATH. So "killing people" is supposed to be the speciality of that otherwise worthless brute. He was tortured and mutilated precisely for that purpose. He had no other goal in his pathetic existence.

    Potentially, N'Zoth could have been the most powerful villain ever faced. You might say "But how? The Old Gods are insects compared to the Titans". However, the purpose of the Old Gods is actually that of controlling a World Soul and turning it into a Void monstrosity. Then nothing would be able to stop a Void Titan. N'Zoth came very close to corrupting the World Soul of Azeroth, as in the final phase of the fight he begins merging Ny'alotha with the Chamber of the Heart. Had N'Zoth succeeded, the World Soul would have been his, and then all of creation would have fallen before the Void Azeroth. That's why the adventure guide literally says that the fight against N'Zoth is a "final confrontation for the fate of the entire UNIVERSE" (Denathrius and the Shadowlands are a part of that universe).

    So, in short, No. Argus the Unmaker remains more powerful than Denathrius, and N'Zoth potentially could have been even more powerful than Argus (especially since Azeroth is clearly the strongest Titan).

    And that's why both Argus and N'Zoth were reserved for the final patch of their respective expansion. Meanwhile Denathrius is literally defeated in Patch 9.0.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-12-04 at 09:07 PM.
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    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Littleraven's Avatar
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    Hard to say but at least on the level of the Titan Pantheon. Blizzard has done a lot of throwing around terms and power levels without actually giving any real context so we can't really say definitively. So yeah I feel like he has to at least be comparable if not a smidge above the Titan Pantheon we know of who while very powerful seem to not be nearly as strong as we thought due to them expanding the lore.

    It also doesn't help that you have characters like Sargeras and Argus that are essentially anomalies in their power. both of them seem to be way stronger than the people around them. Sargeras was able to wipe out the entire pantheon with a single attack essentially and I would assume Argus is in that same ballpark at least.

    The question I then raise is where does Denathrius fall in comparison to these 2? I don't think he is nearly as powerful as either of them. It also calls into question the Jailer. They just call him Titan++ but what does that actually mean since not all Titans are created equal (see my above example). Is he on Sargeras level? Above it? Below it?

    To get back to the question though I would put him somewhere near at LEAST the Titan Pantheon. He strikes me as someone who knows he is way stronger than everyone around him and doesn't really need to worry about anything. I doubt we actually kill him in Nathria and if we do I will actually be a little let down.

  7. #7
    Epic! Oakshana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    And that's why both Argus and N'Zoth were reserved for the final patch of their respective expansion. Meanwhile Denathrius is literally defeated in Patch 9.0.
    That's absolutely NOT why. They are there at the end because it suited the story properly to do so. I mean, I do not disagree with you that Denathrius probably is not as powerful as many other characters, but your argument is wrong.

    Maybe just stick to cringy Alleria posts.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Oakshana View Post
    That's absolutely NOT why. They are there at the end because it suited the story properly to do so. I mean, I do not disagree with you that Denathrius probably is not as powerful as many other characters, but your argument is wrong.

    Maybe just stick to cringy Alleria posts.
    Haha, funny, you joked about Alleria. Maybe you should address my entire argument, since you literally extrapolated the very final part of my post and concluded my entire post was wrong without even explaining why.

    But don't worry. One day, should Alleria become a raid boss, I'll be able to include her in the list of "Most powerful bosses ever faced".
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    Denathrius is of course a part of the "Pantheon" of the Shadowlands, or the First Ones. He appears to be very effective in draining anima from souls, and theoretically using said Anima to make himself even more powerful. His sword also appears to be quite powerful as well, and even has a soul in it that gives it thought and personality. While clearly he is in the upper tiers of power within the Shadowlands itself, how does he compare to other villains in WoW? Old God Tier? Arch/KJ tier? Perhaps even Titan Tier? Do you think lorewise, he will be most powerful character players will face so far, even surpassing Argus?
    I don't think he's a titan tier, we don't have the power as PC to defeat a Titan tier opponent. Even Argus wasn't at full power, and we had lots of help in defeating him. He's more or less around kil'jaeden tier of power.

  10. #10
    Eternal Ones are just the Titans of Death or as they call them - Pantheon of Death. So he'd be on a similar power as Argus. probably stronger since Argus was weakened and young.

    You're confusing The First Ones with the Eternal Ones. First Ones are the ones that came, well, first, and then made everything else like The Eternal Ones which Denathrius is one of.

  11. #11
    Not strong enough to avoid being killed in the first raid.

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Not as powerful as the 25 mortals who stormed his castle
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  13. #13
    Denathrius, Primus, Kyrestia, and the Winter Queen are NOT the First Ones. The First Ones are going to end up being true god-level beings, like Elune.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryonas View Post
    Denathrius, Primus, Kyrestia, and the Winter Queen are NOT the First Ones. The First Ones are going to end up being true god-level beings, like Elune.
    To be fair, everything points towards Elune being the "sister" that the Winter Queen keeps referring to; which would indicate they're of the same tier of being.

    But you're right, Eternal Ones != First Ones. Two separate things.

    Who knows who the First Ones were - possibly something/someone we haven't heard of at all so far, potentially tied into Light vs. Void or whatever.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer MrPaladinGuy's Avatar
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    Pretty weak since a group of dwarves will kill him next week.
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  16. #16
    The Winter Queen, while reviving Ysera, says the dragon is 'of my sisters creation' referring to Eonar. This indicates that the shadowlands pantheon and the cosmic pantheon are the same level of power. Denathrius would be like sargeras pre-corruption
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  17. #17
    About Archimonde/KJ level seems right. The guy commands the Nathrezim looks like, and has been lording over a plane of Death full of powerful and ambitious underlings for eons uncounted. He can't have done that without being a powerhouse.
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  18. #18
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Depends. We don't really know how the fight with Denathrius will end currently. If we kill him without outside help then I'd say he's ultimately pretty weak - but we may receive cutscene/cinematic aid or help during the fight itself, or we may not kill him at all. Remains to be seen when the fight and its attendant lore is available.
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  19. #19
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luler View Post
    As powerful as the story needs him to be.

    AKA now he's super duper strong and stronger than a titan and everything before him to hype him up, but next big bads will be stronger and shit on everything before.
    Like any anime? :P
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  20. #20
    6 times stronger than sargeras but still weaker than sylvanas.

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