First raid overall difficulty?

[crakerjack]

on normal ? ofc - espceially if you are talking about CE guilds which have problems to clear normal

this means that your average player has exackly 0 chance to clear it and if he cant progress at resonable rate he will just quit game.

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soo exackly the players whom for normal was designed for ?

im always fascinated by people from world 2000-1000 guild who feel this strange need to flex their e-pen on forums when guilds like Limit are oficialy speaking about raid being overtuned.

what do you people get from it ? e-fame ? better self esteeme that as world 1500 players you cleared something which world 500000th player wont ever clear ? gg you won internets for today

There is no flex, it's facts. If people can't be bothered to read guides on their class and learn how to play their class, then that's their fault for making the game harder than it really is. When people don't want to try, guess what, it's harder. It's like taking a difficult class in college and not studying, only to complain that the final was tough and you didn't pass. If you prepare for the final, then you have a decent shot at passing. It's the same scenario with raiding. If you don't know your rotation, pick optimal talents or know the fights, then the raid will seem hard. That doesn't make it hard though. If someone wants to raid on a difficulty where they can half-ass and not try, just wait for LFR.

[Gorsameth]

I don’t think it’s overly hard. It’s definitely more hard than past normal raids, but from what I’ve seen, it’s a combination of mediocre players who aren’t parsing above 40% and aren’t doing mechanics. If the average person in your raid is parsing 80% or higher and does the mechanics, you’ll full clear week 1.

So your saying its 'fine' that the lowest out of 3 difficulties can be cleared if you have a group in the top 20%?

That is basically saying that there is indeed a problem.

[Jastall]

I mean i dig the difficulty but i think they went a little too far. Tanks suffering a dots that tick for 20% of their health and multiple unforgiving mechanics do not make normal raiding fun. As usually they listened to their vocal minority (this time the elitists instead of the super casuals) and took things a few steps too far

To me Heroic looks perfectly tuned as I believe it should be harder than it used to be, but yeah Normal really shouldn't be as complex and difficult as it is/was.

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

on normal ? ofc - espceially if you are talking about CE guilds which have problems to clear normal

this means that your average player has exackly 0 chance to clear it and if he cant progress at resonable rate he will just quit game.

You are underestimating how much gear matters in this game. CE guilds and normal/hc guilds were all at same ilvl ~180-183 range or so. In few weeks even normal guilds will be at 200 ilvl and it will be cakewalk for them. I'm in CE guild and we didn't have any problem at all with 183 raid ilvl.

[crakerjack]

So your saying its 'fine' that the lowest out of 3 difficulties can be cleared if you have a group in the top 20%?

That is basically saying that there is indeed a problem.

Everyone is capable of playing better, they choose not to. It’s like saying dark souls is hard because a person is trying to play it like a hack n slash while putting no effort into dodging attacks.

[Fallen Angel]

Everyone is capable of playing better, they choose not to. It’s like saying dark souls is hard because a person is trying to play it like a hack n slash while putting no effort into dodging attacks.

It's not just the guy who plays DS like a hack n slash complaining about the difficulty. You also have the best of the best speedrunners who know all the glitches and tricks who have multiple world records saying it's too hard or mechanics are broken.

Taking 90k damage from one DoT even with mitigation means your healers are going to be very taxed and you'll wipe due to them being OOM, or you cut DPS to stack more healers.

Blizz has already agreed the tuning on some mechanics was too high, so any argument otherwise is a moot point

[Ticj]

Honestly, I'm happy the raid is more difficult this time around. Having to grind out the raid on easy mode so you can progress on heroic right at the start of a tier is kind of lame and slightly ruins the experience. I'm in a super casual guild this time around that struggled pretty harshly on the first few bosses of normal, and we all still enjoyed it pretty well.

[Sonnillon]

Tougher then few previous tiers = yes. Normal requires everyone to be on their best game, which is actually good for a change, since it is an excellent practice for heroic, instead of what it has been sometimes (normal bosses drop like flies cause they are easy and heroic becomes a wall on early bosses due to mechanics).

Enjoyable = yes. There are more mechanics, shit to deal with and stuff to pay attention to, however the fights are not difficult patchwork ones

Meaning progress and figuring shit out makes loot even more rewarding. Each reset makes things easier, so where's the rush?

[ekn88]

Hahahhahahahahahhaa.

No you didn't silly.

Yes I did. Want screenshots from my BigWigs stats? Just cause you're a scrub doesn't mean everyone is.

[Ten15]

My guild is by no means like a top 50 or anything, but we killed Mythic Nzoth early June, for reference. It took us about 5 hours to full clear normal on tuesday, Sludgefist was by far the hardest, taking 9 attempts. The rest were 1-4 attempts. It did feel a bit overtuned for normal mode. The Sludge chain in particular is super punishing and has a pretty damn tight dps check for normal mode too.

Mythic Nzoth was downed in early February on Mythic so June isn't that impressive If anything your guild can use these struggles to determine where improvements are needed.

[rmh1985]

Mythic Nzoth was downed in early February on Mythic so June isn't that impressive If anything your guild can use these struggles to determine where improvements are needed.

Anyone who killed mythic Nzoth at all (including much later kills than June) is in the top 9% of raiders. If the top 9% of raiders struggles in normal, then it's too hard for the intended audience. We also killed Nzoth back in June and normal was also a struggle for us, much harder than Uldir. And we aren't even the intended audience. Normal needs a big nerf. Not sure about heroic since we are undergeared and it may feel more reasonable later, but this will be the first time we missed AOTC the first week which is kinda disappointing to me.

[rmh1985]

Mythic Nzoth was downed in early February on Mythic so June isn't that impressive If anything your guild can use these struggles to determine where improvements are needed.

Less than 10% of raiders killed Mythic Nzoth. If the top 10% struggles with normal, than it is overturned.

[rebecca191]

Mythic Nzoth was downed in early February on Mythic so June isn't that impressive If anything your guild can use these struggles to determine where improvements are needed.

Less than 10% of raiders killed Mythic Nzoth. Even less had back in June. If raiders in the top 10% are struggling with normal, then it is going to be too hard for the intended audience, which is not raiders who killed Mythic Nzoth. I also had a Mythic Nzoth kill around the same time, and I think normal is very overtuned. Heroic feels a bit overtuned as well (it's a bummer to not get AOTC the first week for the first time in a very long time) but might be more of a gear issue there, though it feels much harder than week 1 Uldir did.

[apelsinjuice]

Yes I did. Want screenshots from my BigWigs stats? Just cause you're a scrub doesn't mean everyone is.

what you are trying to say is you paid a guild to boost you

[Justitiaxx]

You're way off base with this one. Cleared it on first day after 4 hours in a PUG. Only boss that was a problem was Lady Inerva.

Shriekwing - 1st attempt
Huntsman - 1st attempt
Sun King - 2nd attempt
Artificer - 2nd attempt
Hungering Destroyer - 1st attempt
Lady Inerva - 5th attempt
The council of blood - 3rd attempt
Sludgefist - 2nd attempt
Stone Legion - 2nd attempt
Sire Denathrius - 3rd attempt

I'm disappointed in the lack of difficulty but do enjoy the fights in terms of mechanics, looking forward to mythics.

That is an absolute fallacy and you know it. Artificer requires comms and understanding how to abuse the wall mechanic, the guide for this exploit wasnt released until last week.

Generals again requires comms and a good amount of mobile classes to take anima to the prince and melee to hold off on DPS on general and move back to the wall to avoid getting blasted off.

Destroyer is impossible in a pug to avoid the players cleaving raid with volatile ejaculation..

Denathrius is impossible with a pug because of the sin soak mechanics requires tanks to be on comms and understanding the phase post 70%.

Please post your parses and armoury and if you are truthful.