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  1. #41
    I think it should be fine after people get Legendaries, better conduits, world boss loot, mythic0/1/2 loot and people actually knowing the fights

    However

    I also believe that Normal should be easy in difficulty. A casual option for family and friends type of guilds were you just want to spend a good time.

    I remember Naxx10 back in WotLK. We used to have a competitive raiding group and a FnF group. The second had 3 members of a family, the mother wasn't really that good and she usually underperformed. But it was always really fun. Just chatting in vent, talking about life, learning new fights, feeling like you achieved something big when you got your first epics and entry level loot. It was a really wholesome activity to do. I used to play in both groups, pushed Ulduar Hard Modes on main and FnF group on alts.

    So I do think there's a space for normal. Some people don't want to wipe 1000 times, farm consumables, min-max your character, read icy veins guides of your class. There's a group of people out there that just want to share quality time with their guild/friends.
    Last edited by Ragnarohk; 2020-12-09 at 11:31 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Molov View Post
    Most top guilds have 3 boss killed already (the very best are on the 7th)
    When mythic world first guilds don't roll up to the heroic endboss in 10 hours it's a bit overtuned I think.

  3. #43
    It's true that this is what we've been used to. Maybe once they unlock the conduits and such for this lock out they will kill the bosses remaining, as they are maybe tuned for that

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    ITT: Lots of people realise how bad they really are.
    yes no titanforge overgearing the raid to carry them, people are used to doing raids with ilvl above what even drops from legion/bfa but now you start at 20-30 ilvls below or before people could go into hc with 30 ilvls below whats dropping and just rolling over the content
    Last edited by apelsinjuice; 2020-12-09 at 11:41 AM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    I think it should be fine after people get Legendaries, better conduits, world boss loot, mythic0/1/2 loot and people actually knowing the fights

    However

    I also believe that Normal should be easy in difficulty. A casual option for family and friends type of guilds were you just want to spend a good time.

    I remember Naxx10 back in WotLK. We used to have a competitive raiding group and a FnF group. The second had 3 members of a family, the mother wasn't really that good and she usually underperformed. But it was always really fun. Just chatting in vent, talking about life, learning new fights, feeling like you achieved something big when you got your first epics and entry level loot. It was a really wholesome activity to do. I used to play in both groups, pushed Ulduar Hard Modes on main and FnF group on alts.

    So I do think there's a space for normal. Some people don't want to wipe 1000 times, farm consumables, min-max your character, read icy veins guides of your class. There's a group of people out there that just want to share quality time with their guild/friends.
    and how many will quit before timegates to obtain those will be lifted ?

    we are speaking about 3-4 months before you will get neough renovn to unlock conduits.

    you belive that people will keep wiping on boss nr 3 on normal for 3 months and have f...all to do in game besides this ?

    you dont - but many in this thread aparently do - treating it as what ? divine retribution because people got purples from WQ in Legion/ BfA ?

    do those people really want to kill wow that badly just to feel a little bit better about wasting their lives in mythic ? lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by apelsinjuice View Post
    yes no titanforge overgearing the raid to carry them, people are used to doing raids with ilvl above what even drops from legion/bfa but now you start at 20-30 ilvls below or before people could go into hc with 30 ilvls below whats dropping and just rolling over the content
    true. you are 100 % correct

    what you described didnt work neither in cata nor in mop nor in Wod

    thats why TF was put into game in first place (and before it itlv upgrades in MoP- to keep those people playing game instead unsubing because your average joe is indeed very bad at game and depends 100 % on gear to carry him

    this is not a new discovery - we know about it for past 10 years now.
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2020-12-09 at 12:01 PM.

  6. #46
    The HP they have in normal mode is ludicrous LOL

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    thats why TF was put into game in first place (and before it itlv upgrades in MoP- to keep those people playing game instead unsubing because your average joe is indeed very bad at game and depends 100 % on gear to carry him

    this is not a new discovery - we know about it for past 10 years now.
    yes

    /10characters

  8. #48
    mimimimimi I cant one shot bosses anymore mimimimimi I have to farm gear in order to progress mimimimi

  9. #49
    Time will tell where the raid falls in overall difficulty. At the moment it definitely feels more difficult than Uldir week one. There seem to be more punishing mechanics that will one shot the player this time around. I've also got this thought knocking around the back of my head that the raid is slightly over-tuned based on the idea that most raid testing was done pre-nerf for class/spec/covenant/lego tuning on beta.
    Last edited by WeaponAgainstVanity; 2020-12-09 at 01:12 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by WeaponAgainstVanity View Post
    Time will tell where the raid falls in overall difficulty. At the moment it definitely feels more difficult than Uldir week one. There seem to be more punishing mechanics that will one shot the player this time around. I've also go this thought knocking around the back of my head that the raid is slightly over-tuned based on the idea that most raid testing was done pre-nerf for class/spec/covenant/lego tuning on beta.
    yes specially normal seems hard for how punishing the mechanics are and how much hp the bosses have etc.

    m+ right now also looks a lot easier for the itemlvl it gives than raiding

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by SwislocK View Post
    Aww baby want his free raid
    Been living under a rock? Thats how games are designed nowadays, so even the ones that never played the game can do okay after 5 minutes.

    And wow has been designed like that ever since wotlk

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    When mythic world first guilds don't roll up to the heroic endboss in 10 hours it's a bit overtuned I think.
    It's not overtuned. You don't have near heroic ilvl ready for when the raids open. You actually have to do normal first, then progress heroic with the loot you got from normal. Titanforging is no longer a thing and you can't do splits as efficiently anymore. Therefore you actually have to do normal in order to do heroic, and you need some heroic gear to finish the thing.

  13. #53
    I think maybe mythic +0 should of dropped 190 gear to help close the gap a little.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Im telling you guilds that only do normal mode have zero chance to progress in the raid as it stands now.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by awadh View Post
    It's not overtuned. You don't have near heroic ilvl ready for when the raids open. You actually have to do normal first, then progress heroic with the loot you got from normal. Titanforging is no longer a thing and you can't do splits as efficiently anymore. Therefore you actually have to do normal in order to do heroic, and you need some heroic gear to finish the thing.
    That's.. not at all how they've tuned their raids in the past
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

  15. #55
    The Patient Agrossive's Avatar
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    Its reassuring hearing that people struggled like my group last night, I thought we were terrible and lost our skill but now I see its the common outcome. I don't mind it being hard, but it does feel very much razor thin wiggle room for success.

  16. #56
    I think all the people who think its too hard, simply underestimate how much the powergain from gear will help. Most people that steped into CN normal were likely around 175-180item lvl, which is a 20! Itemlvl difference to what normal is droping (27 for the last bosses). The powergain just from Stam + Int/Str/Agi will be huge.

    Personally I really love what Blizz did. Like this casual pve players (read as "no Mythic Raiders") have a longer progression journey.

    I'm also a huge fan of the "slower" item progression.

  17. #57
    R I P pugs.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by DerJules View Post
    I think all the people who think its too hard, simply underestimate how much the powergain from gear will help. Most people that steped into CN normal were likely around 175-180item lvl, which is a 20! Itemlvl difference to what normal is droping (27 for the last bosses). The powergain just from Stam + Int/Str/Agi will be huge.

    Personally I really love what Blizz did. Like this casual pve players (read as "no Mythic Raiders") have a longer progression journey.

    I'm also a huge fan of the "slower" item progression.
    15ish ilvls below normal raid is standard for the first raid of an expansion. I agree with you that the progression journey will be longer this time around but that is mostly do to the fact of no titanforging, no coins, and the fact that loot is dropping less in general.

  19. #59
    I am Murloc! A Chozo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    That's.. not at all how they've tuned their raids in the past
    It's literally how they've tuned the raids, difference is that people overgeared through M+ before the raid. Now that gear is more scarce, they can't do such thing.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    It's literally how they've tuned the raids, difference is that people overgeared through M+ before the raid. Now that gear is more scarce, they can't do such thing.
    or overgeared from previous raids with titanforging starting heroic raids with ilvl already above what drops

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