First raid overall difficulty?

[MrKnubbles]

Our guild was 5/12 M Ny'alotha and we only got 2 bosses down on Normal. It was a pretty sad progression night, honestly. But, we're now spamming M+ so I expect our next raid night to go much better.

[Netherblood]

Health of mobs is fine, the whole game though feels like we are supposed to have like 30% more hp. In pvp people are getting killed in 2-3 seconds, some raid dmg on heroic chunks people really hard, and in M+ dmg is insane even in lower keys. My 184brm monk got crushed armor for 90% of my hp my dragon mini boss in mists +9.

I never liked pushed IO super high, but done most BFA keys at +25 and this doesnt feel right. We take insane dmg but still easily make timers even with 20 deaths.

[Count Zero]

Either people forgetting or maybe more likely trolling, but current normal is what "Flex" difficulty in SoO used to be. Current heroic is what old normal used to be.

You can say "git gud" all you want but if you look at the percentages on WoWprogress it's clear this raid is tuned much harder than anything we've seen in a while. Now it's a matter of opinion whether that's good or bad, but it's undeniably a change in direction.

Honestly part of me wonders whether they didn't properly compensate for the lack of warforging/corruption. Isn't this the first time since Throne of Thunder there's been nothing like that?

[OrcsRLame]

Either people forgetting or maybe more likely trolling, but current normal is what "Flex" difficulty in SoO used to be. Current heroic is what old normal used to be.

You can say "git gud" all you want but if you look at the percentages on WoWprogress it's clear this raid is tuned much harder than anything we've seen in a while. Now it's a matter of opinion whether that's good or bad, but it's undeniably a change in direction.

Honestly part of me wonders whether they didn't properly compensate for the lack of warforging/corruption. Isn't this the first time since Throne of Thunder there's been nothing like that?

I think it's mainly that they tested everything on beta with a legendary and full soulbinds.

[Jastall]

I like the idea that Heroic is harder than before. It gives more casual players and guilds a progression path that lasts more than a few weeks, and differentiates the two flexible difficulties.

I do not like what I'm hearing and seeing about Normal being so weirdly tuned. Apparently boss HP is sky high in general, Huntsman has a ridiculously hard hitting DoT and Sludgefist is basically an almost Mythic level DPS check. Normal is meant to be the pug friendly beer league difficulty, it really, really shouldn't be challenging top raiders even on raid launch day, because that means when more casual players enters they'll get turned into paste.

[Sofo1]

As someone who doesn't raid mythic, I'm very happy about hearing how normal/heroic is tuned right now.

have you tried to pug heroic yet? ^^

[Argorwal]

I like the idea that Heroic is harder than before. It gives more casual players and guilds a progression path that lasts more than a few weeks, and differentiates the two flexible difficulties.

I do not like what I'm hearing and seeing about Normal being so weirdly tuned. Apparently boss HP is sky high in general, Huntsman has a ridiculously hard hitting DoT and Sludgefist is basically an almost Mythic level DPS check. Normal is meant to be the pug friendly beer league difficulty, it really, really shouldn't be challenging top raiders even on raid launch day, because that means when more casual players enters they'll get turned into paste.

It’s week 1 and people are in 170-180 gear, with bosses that drop 200 and 207.

If beer league pugs could stomp the raid at this level what would a few weeks in when groups are 195-205 be like?

Even just last tier if you took normal pugs into Ny’alotha week 1 with everyone in 380-390 gear it wouldn’t go super well.

It will be back to getting blasted soon.

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

Are some mythic raiders jealous or what and demand nerfs for normal/heroic?

Why can't normal/heroic guilds have the right for proper progress? Guilds who don't have the roster or skill for mythics have now some meaningful progress.

People are raiding raid that drops 200+ ilvl loot with ~180 ilvl equipped.

[ldev]

1 world boss down, 3 bosses in raid, 0 gear. Motivation dropping.

[Gib Lover]

1 world boss down, 3 bosses in raid, 0 gear. Motivation dropping.

? 1 world boss, 7 bosses and 1 drop for me, what's your point? What does that have to do with this thread?

[Jastall]

It’s week 1 and people are in 170-180 gear, with bosses that drop 200 and 207.

If beer league pugs could stomp the raid at this level what would a few weeks in when groups are 195-205 be like?

Even just last tier if you took normal pugs into Ny’alotha week 1 with everyone in 380-390 gear it wouldn’t go super well.

It will be back to getting blasted soon.

There's a fairly large gap between "pugs blasting the raid week 1" and "the second boss has a DoT ticking for half your HP bar on friggin Normal". That's been nerfed since, but expect more nerfs to Normal soon, alongside maybe buffs to Stone Legion Generals. Sludgefist in particular looks like a ridiculous DPS check for now.

[det]

they basickly reverted game to the state it was in cataclysm

In parts it seems they "listened" to the people saying that players want how things were in Vanilla. That thought keeps occoring to me...world quests are much more inconvenient and take more time...and especially the recent world boss? Placed in an area that is hostile to my covenant (weird..wasn't I helping the House of the Chosen and the Primus while levelling? ....in Ardenweald folks are friendly enough?) You die (easy...nobody healed me when I tanked the boss)...you cannot res or release and return to combat...and after the fight is over you have a corpse run like Horde to Onyxia or Thorium point to MC.

Yeah...I did all that in Vanilla and I did it because I didn't know better. After years and years of more "convenient" x-pacs...I currently loathe the lv 60 state of SL. Add to that the mind-boggling effort it currently seems to take to even acquire cosmetics and mounts from your covenant? But I try and see the bright side. Makes me log in less and do RL things.

[Fallen Angel]

Are some mythic raiders jealous or what and demand nerfs for normal/heroic?

Why can't normal/heroic guilds have the right for proper progress? Guilds who don't have the roster or skill for mythics have now some meaningful progress.

People are raiding raid that drops 200+ ilvl loot with ~180 ilvl equipped.

Jealous of whom, exactly?

If a mechanic is doing more damage on heroic than what it's supposed to even on mythic, something is clearly wrong and no one is going to have a fun time progressing on that boss. Nerfing broken mechanics does not take away from normal/heroic progression, it's literally fixing a broken mechanic.

[ldev]

? 1 world boss, 7 bosses and 1 drop for me, what's your point? What does that have to do with this thread?

Here are people who posted about how many down first, ask them, I just followed:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52865618
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52865516
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52865598
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52864939
etc

Then get back to me about what the point was, I wanna know too. Thanks buddy.

[Kuruption]

have you tried to pug heroic yet? ^^

Why would I pug it? I'm 30 ilvls below what it drops.

Plus my guild is going in on normal tonight, so I have no plans on pugging unless I level an alt.

[Gib Lover]

Here are people who posted about how many down first, ask them, I just followed:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52865618
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52865516
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52865598
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52864939
etc

Then get back to me about what the point was, I wanna know too. Thanks buddy.

Where do any of those mention how much gear they got lmao. You sure "got me" buddy

Edit: None of them mention world bosses either, so amazing work Puppet Master

[arkanon]

Lmao someone couldn't kill any bosses. Just call everything WoD 2.0 lmao

What is your current progression?

[Daffan]

Either people forgetting or maybe more likely trolling, but current normal is what "Flex" difficulty in SoO used to be. Current heroic is what old normal used to be.

You can say "git gud" all you want but if you look at the percentages on WoWprogress it's clear this raid is tuned much harder than anything we've seen in a while. Now it's a matter of opinion whether that's good or bad, but it's undeniably a change in direction.

Honestly part of me wonders whether they didn't properly compensate for the lack of warforging/corruption. Isn't this the first time since Throne of Thunder there's been nothing like that?

is that a bad thing that it takes more than 1 week for average player to beat

[ldev]

Where do any of those mention how much gear they got lmao. You sure "got me" buddy

Edit: None of them mention world bosses either, so amazing work Puppet Master

They forgot, I did not, don't be mad. Are you afraid to ask them? But not me? Why?

[Aristai1723]

Casual 5 hour guild. We get curve every tier, usually on the late side. 3/10 on the first progress night, nobody complained. Some mechanics hit super hard. Nothing wrong with that. I think the gearing progression is different from most other expansions, but not by as much as people cry here.