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  1. #81
    Sadly I think that due to Blizzard's big shift to "Class, not spec" they pivoted to in Shadowlands, we will not see as much spec balancing this expansion as we should. I might be proven wrong as time goes by, but given the hilarious disparity between the best and worst of most multi-dps specs (Unholy/Frost, Affliction/Destro come to mind as the worst offenders), I think it's a safe if irksome assumption to make.

  2. #82
    "Frost is generally biased against itself due to Unholy performing so well. players in good guilds that kill bosses fast will play unholy, have more gear and quicker kill timers. This makes it so that frost looks worse than it actually is. Frost is completely fine.

    In Mythic, the frost population is tiny. This creates high variance in parses. For those of you that have studied statistics, the variance generally scales as 1 over the squareroot of number of entries. Small population gives large variance that can create these big shifts week to week."

    Front page WoWhead.com, but visit the Acherus discord and ask, if you don't believe me.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Xjan View Post
    "Frost is generally biased against itself due to Unholy performing so well. players in good guilds that kill bosses fast will play unholy, have more gear and quicker kill timers. This makes it so that frost looks worse than it actually is. Frost is completely fine.

    In Mythic, the frost population is tiny. This creates high variance in parses. For those of you that have studied statistics, the variance generally scales as 1 over the squareroot of number of entries. Small population gives large variance that can create these big shifts week to week."

    Front page WoWhead.com, but visit the Acherus discord and ask, if you don't believe me.
    Frost can absolutely clear any content in the game, except for the highest of high level m+ which people have not reached yet. However, this is a false equivalency. Just because it can clear mythic raiding does not mean it doesn't need buffs. A counterpoint to this line of reasoning is that, because unholy is so strong, its average numbers are lowered by FOTM rerollers while everyone who plays frost is a frost main. So theoretically the gap between their parses would be lower at max or high percentage parses (what the best players are doing) if it was simply a representation issue. However, the gap grows from ~20% dps difference to ~30% at max level parses versus low ones.

    I will say, though, that as far as "emergency buffs" go Frost dk is lower on the list compared to Destro, Frost Mage and Fury Warrior.
    Last edited by Majerin; 2021-01-07 at 09:23 PM.

  4. #84
    Frost is in a great place, and as the expansion progresses, is going to be monstrous again. It is already dominating PvP much more than Unholy is because of its crazy burst windows that aren't tied to a pet.

    2H Frost 100% needs some tweaks though, as it is not really playable, and I tend to try every other week or so.

  5. #85
    Get in line. Plenty of specs are worse than Frost and don't have a top-tier spec to switch to as well.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Binaris View Post
    Frost Has always struggled at the beginning of expacs but then took off once crit got out of hand.
    Really? Frost was great in Uldir then got nerfed and sucked in BOD. There's no rule except direct Blizzard balancing that wants to shuffle the meta, the same way they pushed MM to be on the forefront because BM was a staple of BFA. I wonder why didn't they look into mages and Fire is a go-to for another expansion and Arcane wasn't good since basically WOD / HFC.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Xjan View Post
    "Frost is generally biased against itself due to Unholy performing so well. players in good guilds that kill bosses fast will play unholy, have more gear and quicker kill timers. This makes it so that frost looks worse than it actually is. Frost is completely fine.

    In Mythic, the frost population is tiny. This creates high variance in parses. For those of you that have studied statistics, the variance generally scales as 1 over the squareroot of number of entries. Small population gives large variance that can create these big shifts week to week."

    Front page WoWhead.com, but visit the Acherus discord and ask, if you don't believe me.
    I completely agree with this. I'm doing just fine in my M+ as frost. Only thing I want changed is the cd on emp rune weapon. Our rank 2 is decreased cd but you never really use it without PoF anyway. Feelw bad seeing it off cd but delaying it anyway

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Binaris View Post
    Frost Has always struggled at the beginning of expacs but then took off once crit got out of hand. But with the changes to secondary stats scaling at higher levels, there is a good chance something would need to be done to help frost. Will they, I doubt it.
    Well at least in bfa a lot of this was due to all the synergies icecap got from azerite.
    Obliteration gets worse as crit increases and BoS has diminished scaling once BoS outlasts the Pillar window.
    Not looking too great for scaling here.

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