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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    You're assuming people are picking covenants solely for pve benefits.

    DK's Necrolord ability is god-tier in PvP.
    im not assuming anything, i said multiple times people choose depending on thousand criteria, their prefered content being one of them
    for pvp, necro is good (agains casters, not so much against melee) but still its not best "overal" which according to OP "Everyone is taking"

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    I actually took one of the covenants that I prefer over the 2 best. It sucks ass and my performance suffers terribly from it because the idiot dev team can't balance for shit and doesn't listen to reason. You defend bad ideas that are unnecessary. Who would it hurt to make the powers into a talent row?
    If you care more about performance than about appearance, why did you choose the underperforming one? Also no, if your performance sucks terribly it's your fault. The covenants are not that impactful. You sound like someone who wants to blame everyone and everything except yourself for your own shortcomings.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    I actually took one of the covenants that I prefer over the 2 best. It sucks ass and my performance suffers terribly from it because the idiot dev team can't balance for shit and doesn't listen to reason. You defend bad ideas that are unnecessary. Who would it hurt to make the powers into a talent row?
    So your big complaint is that the Covenant you prefer is not the best? Seriously? That is your whole gripe? You picked the one you liked more and are still not having fun? I am beginning to think the problem here is not Blizzard, but rather individuals who are not happy unless they have everything their way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    If you care more about performance than about appearance, why did you choose the underperforming one? Also no, if your performance sucks terribly it's your fault. The covenants are not that impactful. You sound like someone who wants to blame everyone and everything except yourself for your own shortcomings.
    If I could upvote this comment, I absolutely would. Good on you mate.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    I actually took one of the covenants that I prefer over the 2 best. It sucks ass and my performance suffers terribly from it because the idiot dev team can't balance for shit and doesn't listen to reason. You defend bad ideas that are unnecessary. Who would it hurt to make the powers into a talent row?
    Stupidity on this level should never be allowed to breed. I'm perfectly content with one performing above another. One is always going to perform above another and if you converted the covenants to talents I have no doubt people would bitch about one talent over performing.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    The problem with picking Night Fae as FDK is in order to maximize it you have to stand in D&D, you have to have another GCD before you can start dpsing, so more ramp up, then you have to worry about movement and timing of it.
    So if you look at Patchwerk sims of it, I'm sure it beats out Kyrian. But in reality, Kyrian is an instant 40 yard DoT that doesn't punish you for using it first that can cleave onto other targets even when things happen to be getting repositioned. You don't see this on sims, this is an experience and knowledge type of thing.

    Night Fae is basically a noob trap in raids unless you know all the fights and/or have them all on farm. But I'd wager a gamble that most people are selecting based on dungeons dps. The little critter teleport thing isn't as useful in dungeons as it is raids and Death's Due isn't as useful in raids/pvp as it is in dungeons.
    I agree with your sentiment that sims dont account for poor play.
    Blindly following sims is a huge mistake for most players.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by ihate2beapessimist View Post
    I agree with your sentiment that sims dont account for poor play.
    Blindly following sims is a huge mistake for most players.
    How?

    This " logic" always confuses me. If someone is playing poorly they are going to perform even worse using a setup that does less damage.

    This is what we call a non argument your just murdering pixels without making a point.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    1. To choose a Covenant because of looks means during raid, mythic or pvp you are purposely choosing to gimp your team. On DPS check bosses or any boss for that matter this is easily the difference between an easy kill or struggling for 4+ hours.

    2. These numbers prove that far more then min/maxxrs care about optimizing their specs. That argument has been wrong from the day I made this thread and has always been wrong since day 1 of WoW. Nobody picks up WoW and intentionally tries to be subpar and non competitive.

    3. No. Signatures are very limited on this site compared to what they used to be and this information is there. As an FYI I have not touched Shadowlands since launch due to this fear of pigeonholing and constantly never being able to optimize my class while also playing the Covenant that I wanted. Paladin for example if forced into Kyrian but I would personally prefer to play Revendreth but I would bein purposely gimpimg any group I entered and wasting my time on renown in the long run that gives me meaningless returns compared to someone who picked Kyrian because they saw it on Icy Veins.
    lol

    thats why i hate raiders and hardcore no-lifers

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Dude what are you even on about? Are you seriously trying to say that you got CE first week or two? Because otherwise its not the same level.
    I USED to be at that level. What Limit Echo etc are doing now is not a one to two week event. It's 5 plus weeks of 10 hours or more a day on expansion launch. To give you some idea their main tanks got to 2100 and the full honor cap in rated events along with 10 14s they also this week did 4 full splits and 1 rat splits that didn't kill final boss. They also level more than just the characters they use for those splits in case of changes. They did something like 50 M0s each in the first two weeks. Then you have the maw farm where thd will be able to buy sockets in a day or two which was another several hours a day.

    When I was playing at a competitive level it was nowhere near this insane in terms of prep I'll take getting my ce done in the first few months and then just chilling now thanks. I can deal with playing 14 plus hours a day during prog but the weeks leading up to prog just nah. Also I flat am not at the level of skill that people have reached now it's legit insane how good the players in echo and limit are even without stuff like snapshotting to differentiate them there is such a huge skill gap it's not even funny.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by LedZeppelin View Post
    Doesnt matter unless you are doing world first.
    So, if you arent doing World First you make no effort to be better or to be best you can be? So, if you arent a chef dont worry about trying to cook food well?

    Your logic is absurd.

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    I USED to be at that level. What Limit Echo etc are doing now is not a one to two week event. It's 5 plus weeks of 10 hours or more a day on expansion launch. To give you some idea their main tanks got to 2100 and the full honor cap in rated events along with 10 14s they also this week did 4 full splits and 1 rat splits that didn't kill final boss. They also level more than just the characters they use for those splits in case of changes. They did something like 50 M0s each in the first two weeks. Then you have the maw farm where thd will be able to buy sockets in a day or two which was another several hours a day.

    When I was playing at a competitive level it was nowhere near this insane in terms of prep I'll take getting my ce done in the first few months and then just chilling now thanks. I can deal with playing 14 plus hours a day during prog but the weeks leading up to prog just nah. Also I flat am not at the level of skill that people have reached now it's legit insane how good the players in echo and limit are even without stuff like snapshotting to differentiate them there is such a huge skill gap it's not even funny.
    Thats cool and shit but, you do realize what happens before the race is just preparations? You realize that other guilds 100+ don't kill last boss on hardest difficulty for two weeks after it has been released? You do realize it's what really matters?

    That means on last boss, method has minus 10 item level vs reward item level while other guilds have at worst minus 5 or even equal to reward. That is the point.
    And those people can't compare themselves to method/limit. Their problem is not gear or raw outputs, their "problem" is lack of time on actual progression and lack of skills.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Josyel View Post
    lol

    thats why i hate raiders and hardcore no-lifers
    Lets not for a moment pretend all or even a majority of raiders think this way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunslayer View Post
    So, if you arent doing World First you make no effort to be better or to be best you can be? So, if you arent a chef dont worry about trying to cook food well?

    Your logic is absurd.
    I think both sides of this discussion (and many on this forum) fall into the same category: each side just presents extreme scenarios trying to prove the other wrong, when reality is usually something in between. There is a gaping chasm of quality raiders who are not after world first but are still fiercely competitive and min/ max their toons heavily.
    People present it as casual, open invitation fun run or Olympic 100m sprint, ignoring everything in between. "Unless you are trying to break the 100m world record, why even train?".

  12. #372
    It's like Ion said in his Sloot interview, it's okay to make a decision based on power.

    What's important isn't why you make a choice, but that you make a choice in the first place.

    You decide what's important to you and use that to inform your decision.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Thats cool and shit but, you do realize what happens before the race is just preparations? You realize that other guilds 100+ don't kill last boss on hardest difficulty for two weeks after it has been released? You do realize it's what really matters?

    That means on last boss, method has minus 10 item level vs reward item level while other guilds have at worst minus 5 or even equal to reward. That is the point.
    And those people can't compare themselves to method/limit. Their problem is not gear or raw outputs, their "problem" is lack of time on actual progression and lack of skills.
    I literally said I used to raid at that level I'm very aware of the difference in ilvl in a prog guild vs a video guild. Seriously dude just stop also ever think that the difference might actually be more important in non wf guilds because they are going to do do a worse percentage of their maximum damage which means increasing that maximum is arguably more important if you do 70% vs 98% of your theoretical. The difference between covenants right now from worst to best across a raid is essentially a full extra dps maybe even 2 they are a big deal and they shouldn't be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    It's like Ion said in his Sloot interview, it's okay to make a decision based on power.

    What's important isn't why you make a choice, but that you make a choice in the first place.

    You decide what's important to you and use that to inform your decision.
    Thing is it's not it would be if cosmetics and story weren't tied to it and it was just a talent set like it should have been but it's not and that leads to players wanting to make aesthetic choices but feeling bad if they do because of loss of power.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Pretty sure the numbers for most specs in WoW prove people who called out this problem were right. The idea that casuals do not min/max has been a fundamental misunderstanding of how casuals are forced to operate in a world of Raider IO where to get the best use of your time which is far more limited then hardcore players they are forced to min/max to even play the same game.

    I am 100% confident in my prediction that after trash mobs and bosses starting hitting far harder in Mythic plus and raids any idea of choice in Shadowlands will be eliminated in the face of stark realities. The idea of picking a Covenant for looks was cute maybe in BFA world where you could obtain gear through multiple sources but those days are done in favor of a more Classic approach of less gear drops behind dungeon/raiding content with far more minimal drop rates.



    A lot of people like me are sitting on the sidelines waiting to see if predetermined views of this feature turn out to be exactly what we expected. This is all before the nerfs come to try and even out these numbers and people have invested an inordinate amount of time into these Covenants to find out all their work/time has been wasted.
    This statement shows how out of touch with the reality of the game you are....

    Covenants takes a whole 20 minutes a week to keep upto date not “some inordinate amount of time” even catching up on an alt is super fast if you’re doing literally anything else the game throws catch up renown at you.

  15. #375
    I’m a casual WoW player. I chose Night Fae because the zone is beautiful, and if my time on WoW is mostly going to be in my Covenants zone, I want it to look nice.

    I’m happy with my decision.
    Fairy tales are more than true – not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman
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  16. #376
    Overall it wasn't a terrible outcome. Sure some specs have pvp and pve covenants but for the most part it balances out so long as you look up what one to pick.

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