As I feared a few minutes after Covenants were announced....it will get worse

[Zakaryy]

OP really said lemme post my own thread on the bnet forums to back my own claims up ??????

People really think this is going to make a big difference down the line and further on into the expansion?
It's not. It's really not. Obviously some spells are gonna sim better than others in solo content, group content, single/multi target, raiding, mythic, pvp.
Regardless of these spells, unless you are playing and are going to be in a specific percentile of the player base that revolves around these. It does NOT matter.

Choose what covenant is best for you. Not for your character.

[Tesshin83]

Gotta love when people who do no content say that what is in some cases a 10 to 20 percent delta means nothing lol.

Refering to me? I have been doing mythic raiding since Siege of Orgrimmar and all heroic raiding before that.

[Xath]

What's with the extreme analogy? This is a video game that yes, has competitive aspects to it, but unless you're playing at a certain level (the top 1%) then you can show up to fight a dragon with a suboptimal ability if you like that ability more because it's not going to hinder your progress.

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Because you like the ability and you can do all but the hardest content with it.

It literally will hinder your progress though if you are a worse player you still need to pass the same threshold as better players and corruption isn't here to carry people over the finish line this tier.

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Very easy. DPS loss or increase is not the most important factor that contributes to performance.

If you don't raid or do any competitive content sure the night fae might contribute more to your mogs per hour stat.

[The Dark One]

This thread, posted in bad faith, is a waste of space.

OP hasn't even played Shadowlands. Why are you all wasting time on this nonsense?

I picked the covenants I enjoy playing the most, and no amount of min/max nutjobs will change my mind.

[Tesshin83]

It literally will hinder your progress though if you are a worse player you still need to pass the same threshold as better players and corruption isn't here to carry people over the finish line this tier.

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If you don't raid or do any competitive content sure the night fae might contribute more to your mogs per hour stat.

If you arent aware how much the top end raiders value stats like absorb effects, mobility, stamina etc, then why spend time here making ignorant comments when you can read up on how the game works? 🙂

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This thread, posted in bad faith, is a waste of space.

OP hasn't even played Shadowlands. Why are you all wasting time on this nonsense?

Since this is the best question in this entire thread, then I will stop replying or even read this thread.

[agm114r]

I'm interested in why your opinion matters. You don't play the game so you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You are irrelevant to any conversation about SL.

He's an old Rift tryhard, who spent a career dissing WoW. Now he's giving advice?

[Xath]

If you arent aware how much the top end raiders value stats like absorb effects, mobility, stamina etc, then why spend time here making ignorant comments when you can read up on how the game works? ������

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Since this is the best question in this entire thread, then I will stop replying or even read this thread.

If you aren't aware blizz can't balance with those absorbs in mind or necro becomes literally required. Good players only need absorbs for choreographed damage because they don't stand in bad. Choreographed damage can't be in excess of the amount of cooldowns a raid would have or you do force people to go necro. Damage is what matters.

[agm114r]

This is a community forced problem, not a blizzard created problem. If you even consider it a problem.

People even clearing normal will try to emulate what hall of fame guilds even though they dont get any specific benefit out of it.
.

What you're all leaving out is the huge percentage that doesn't even raid above LFR, and doesn't dungeon above heroic, or doesn't even dungeon or raid.

If you raid high enough for it to matter to you, then you have made the *choice* for your performance to select your covenant, rather than you selecting the covenant you 'want'. And that's fine for those of you high who raid/dungeon high enough to matter.

The rest of us will just shrug and do our thing and chuckle at all the effort you're going to for this.

[kaminaris]

If you aren't aware blizz can't balance with those absorbs in mind or necro becomes literally required. Good players only need absorbs for choreographed damage because they don't stand in bad. Choreographed damage can't be in excess of the amount of cooldowns a raid would have or you do force people to go necro. Damage is what matters.

Seems like you have never raided at any challenging level that you think good players don't get damage because they don't stand in shit lol. Mite as well not pick any healers to squad or maybe one to keep tank alive.

People like you keep ending up in guild full of dps whores with no idea about solving problems (tactics lol, wtf is that) so their only solution is to keep banging head against wall. Sad part is that squad keeps rotation fast as more intelligent players keeps leaving to find better guilds until guild falls apart totally. Of course abnormal amount of pull counter is norm so to keep up with "worse" guilds they have to keep playing more.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

It's really interesting that they can tell you what spec these characters are. My character is not a Brewmaster, Windwalker, or Mistweaver. She is a Monk. I wonder how they determined these stats.

So you leveled to 60 without selecting a spec? Odd way to play, but whatever floats your boat.

(Your armory shows the spec you logged out as, the site acknowledges that the numbers are likely skewed to some degree by people logging out in off-specs).

[gaymer77]

What you're all leaving out is the huge percentage that doesn't even raid above LFR, and doesn't dungeon above heroic, or doesn't even dungeon or raid.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't do raiding outside of LFR and the occasional guild run if I'm on and have the time to raid with them. RL issues (school and more responsibilities on the homefront) have caused me to take a backseat to gaming most of the time. I have done a total of 3 mythics in my entire time in WoW. One was Bloodmaul Slag Mines in WOD and the other was Scarlet Halls in MOP. I have no interest in doing mythic or mythic+. I am content with seeing the story progress through LFR and cutscenes released on sites like this. I'm not pushing server/world firsts nor do I have any desire to do so. I got burned out with "hardcore" raiding by the time BC was over. I raided Naxx40 as a shadow priest (have about 6 splinters still in my bank to prove it) and earned Hand of A'dal on 3 different characters in BC (priest main, rogue alt, and warlock alt) with a 4th that was halfway through with the questline when it became unavailable and unnecessary. I happened to pick the covenant for my priest, DK, mage, and warlock based on an overall usefulness, rewards, and a little bit of looks. My priest just happened to pick what ended up being THE covenant for holy priests simply because I didn't like how the others played.

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It's really interesting that they can tell you what spec these characters are. My character is not a Brewmaster, Windwalker, or Mistweaver. She is a Monk. I wonder how they determined these stats.

Yes she is a "monk" but she is also a brewmaster MONK or windwalker MONK or a mistweaver MONK not simply a MONK. They determined your spec based on what pulls from armory when you logged out as that spec. As far as what specs are listed under mythic dungeon progression, that's locked in when you finish a mythic as a certain spec and records all of the 5 people's specs once it registers you've completed it. Its the same way that even the WoW website shows the leaderboard for each of the specs all 5 people were when the mythic finished. WoW website as in the official WoW leaderboard listed.

[h4rr0d]

As a priest, I'm not going kyrian, no matter what. I just can't stand ascended blast, the ability is just so clunky (I started as kyrian, but swapped to venthyr. Mind games is so much more fun)

[Jinpachi]

Doesnt matter unless you are doing world first.

100% fucking this. Why people go apeshit over meaningless stats is beyond me.

[gaymer77]

As a priest, I'm not going kyrian, no matter what. I just can't stand ascended blast, the ability is just so clunky (I started as kyrian, but swapped to venthyr. Mind games is so much more fun)

Not sure where you're getting your info on what's the best covenants for priests but none of them put Kyrian as top choice. For all three specs its Necro (holy and shadow) or Venthyr (disc or if you switch between shadow and either healing spec). As you pointed out, Ascended Blast is a rather clunky spell to use for any of the specs. It triggers a 1 second GCD while the GCD for everything else is 1.5 so you literally have to wait .5 sec to cast crap with it. The only time that Kyrian is recommended is for disc in a M+ environment or for shadow at lower keys but not higher keys or any other environment. Necro's Unholy Nova is just way too good to pass up but Venthyr's Mindgames is a decent second choice if you plan on doing some PvP too because that's a pretty bad ass debuff to give someone in a PvP fight.

[Haidaes]

What's with the extreme analogy? This is a video game that yes, has competitive aspects to it, but unless you're playing at a certain level (the top 1%) then you can show up to fight a dragon with a suboptimal ability if you like that ability more because it's not going to hinder your progress.

The point of this extreme analogy is that picking definitive gains, even if you are not world class elite, is still a gain that makes your life and that of your team easier under most circumstances. The argument that only the 1% should care while you drag your team down on the other hand is an asinine argument, because saying yes to a covenant is a way easier than overcoming any limitations of skill and there are definitive differences between covenants. For some classes these are <3%, which admitteldy is not much, for others this gap is upwards of >8%.

Btw I have only picked suboptimal covenants myself so far, but that does not mean I like it. These numbers also show that many other people don't like it and way more people will blindly follow guides instead. I just can't stand this limp wristed argument "that only the 1 % need to care".

[kamuimac]

Original thread 10 minutes after Covenants were announced
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nts-now/348779

and now the results:
https://www.wowhead.com/news=319716/...io#wowranks-io

As has been predicted from the day this feature was announced even with heavy nerfs people would have to be willing to purposely gimp themselves in PVP and PVE just for an aesthetic choice. Once Raider IO takes over the expansions tomorrow this will get far worse not including raiding.

Out of the source information I can count 10 specs (not at 50% concentrated) that have an option on what they want to play but some of those are before impending nerfs that will force the players to optimize their Covenant choices.

Why Blizzard why did you do this? For those of you enjoying the expansion I say great and have fun but the freight train is coming in the form of FARRRR more power unlocks, gear scaling making the differences far more stark and far more access to meaningful abilities.

you are way overegzagerating

people can easily clear mythic +10 and hc raids with whatever covenant they want

honestly game would be better if sites like wowhead/raider.io were taken down from internet and people figured it out on individual accord.

those are cancer to the game in my opinion even though they are so convinient when for example you are stuck on quest- but they reduce players information to "lol check it on wowhead"

[h4rr0d]

Not sure where you're getting your info on what's the best covenants for priests but none of them put Kyrian as top choice. For all three specs its Necro (holy and shadow) or Venthyr (disc or if you switch between shadow and either healing spec). As you pointed out, Ascended Blast is a rather clunky spell to use for any of the specs. It triggers a 1 second GCD while the GCD for everything else is 1.5 so you literally have to wait .5 sec to cast crap with it. The only time that Kyrian is recommended is for disc in a M+ environment or for shadow at lower keys but not higher keys or any other environment. Necro's Unholy Nova is just way too good to pass up but Venthyr's Mindgames is a decent second choice if you plan on doing some PvP too because that's a pretty bad ass debuff to give someone in a PvP fight.

What I meant was I'm not going kyrian again regardless of any balance changes.

[gaymer77]

What I meant was I'm not going kyrian again regardless of any balance changes.

Oh I totally get what you're saying. I didn't like their storyline when I was going through the to-60 campaign and sided with Uther and them more than the Kyrian even you you take out the whole covenant powers crap lol.

[Dakara]

Numbers change, looks don't (not in video games anyway). I wouldn't worry about it.

Numbers might change, but the mechanics behind those numbers rarely do... and for many specs, that’s been the problem since day 1.

[Krakan]

you are way overegzagerating

people can easily clear mythic +10 and hc raids with whatever covenant they want

honestly game would be better if sites like wowhead/raider.io were taken down from internet and people figured it out on individual accord.

those are cancer to the game in my opinion even though they are so convinient when for example you are stuck on quest- but they reduce players information to "lol check it on wowhead"

No,no we are going to keep using math.

It's time for everyone's favorite game next week though waking up the Tuesday after that and finding out if you were nerfed hard enough that you have to reroll your covenant.