and for holy priest "best" is necrolord, which was chosen by roughly 44%, so 56%, which is majority of holy priests, DIDNT choose based on performance...
frost DK "best" is night fae which was picked by less than 25%, so majority again picked on different criteria...
biggest disparities are on specs where both aesthetics and performance are best for the same covenant, how surprising, given that those are most likely two most prominent criteria...
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night fae doesnt make aestheticaly great fit for frost DK, but its best performance, so it was picked by ...less than 25%... seems like majority didnt go for performance there...
holy priest clearly best performance are necrolords and got less than 44%...
biggest disparities are on specs that have best performance and most fitting aesthetics in the same covenant (or where pretty much none fits thematicaly) where we cant say WHY those people choose, for others its not realy that clearly "pro-performance", some specs (as already mentioned two examples) actualy dont have majority picking the same covenant, 10 specs are less than half in most picked covenant (mind you, not the "best", but most picked)
so pretty much all we can say from the data is how many people chose which covenant, and thats it, as we have no fucking clue WHY they did so...
When it doesn't matter, sure they will.
When it comes to high end raiding and mythic+ it's all about the optimisation and efficiency. Not to say average joe with his necrolord warrior (the banner ability sucks fyi) couldn't do heroic/mythic raids, sure he could but when it comes to progression raiding the goal is to clear the content which means eeking out every last drop of DPS to ensure success.
Holy Priest:
Holy Priest in general has a total sample size of 20.316
There are almost as many Venthyr Disc Priest then there are Holy, its kinda a dog spec atm and most priest in that sample are off specs or something else.
Secondly, Holy doesnt actually have a "best" so i have 0 clue how you got to that conclusion. https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/holy-p...s-and-conduits
https://warcraftpriests.com/holy/holy-priest-covenants/
Frost DK:
Same Situation, Unholy is the superior spec in pretty much every situation atm and their "Best" is, you guessed it, Necrolord. So what does that tell you about why you see so many Necrolord Frost DKs but a small amount of actual Frost DKs.
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Except there not..., even with splits theres a limit to how hard you can gear a character especially if you are pushing world first. They even live streamed world first progression. This isnt hidden information its borderline common sense at this point that that World first players are doing it at the bare minimums.
Last edited by Malix Farwin; 2020-12-09 at 09:41 PM.
that obviously not everybody cares about performance in the first place, otherwise there would be NO frost dks...
thank you for providing more argument AGAINST op i guess...
and sure, necrolords might be best for unholy, but they are ALSO best aesthetic fit, so as i said, biggest disparity where looks and numbers are aligned...
Last edited by Lolites; 2020-12-09 at 10:00 PM.
Right, the point of the post is that numbers don't show reasons. These numbers say a lot, but they're not really definitive proof of anything, for all we know 50% of druids/paladins picked NF/Kyrian to RP. People just love having numbers they can attach to things to try and push their narrative, but at the end of the day all we know is how many people picked a covenant and that it.
Every single druid spec has Night Fae as the most picked by far, but Night Fae isn't the best option for all their specs. Balance druids are a staggering 68% Night Fae compared to 28% for Kyrian (their best according to WoWhead). So, yeah, numbers are great but over all they aren't super helpful. It's the same for Guardian, Night Fae is strong but Kyrian is rated better in both raids and M+, and yet it's 48/27 in favor of NF.
1% ers aren't posting here whining about covenant imbalances. They're getting on with their work.
So to be clear, since you don't seem to get it - the data you posted is irrelevant to this conversation. Covenants did not exist. At the time of this thread posting, there were zero M+ runs completed. Any analysis of M+ is irrelevant to the discussion at hand, since it did not exist.
I have never said that I "never play windwalker." I stated that I almost always log out as windwalker, and it is not my main spec. Therefore, in this data, there is at least one player classified by the research as DPS, which is an incorrect assertion. The only relevant and correct data I found from the website was class totals. Any analysis of the data that is broken down by spec is done using inaccurate research methods. When inaccurate research methods are used, ALL of its conclusions are subject to additional scrutiny. In my assertion, the data is meaningless. For example, in the second paragraph of your post you started with a completely false statement (that I never play windwalker), so it is logical that any conclusion you draw from it is meaningless.
There is a misinterpretation of the statistics. The data attained does not lead to the conclusions they made. The research methods are not appropriate for the claims they are making.
I don't need additional reading - I have a degree in math and use data every day. You are simply ignoring what I am saying and trying to assert that I am wrong based on arguments that aren't relevant for the discussion. Of course if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree you will find it stupid.
Last edited by Jonnusthegreat; 2020-12-09 at 10:20 PM.
Covenants did exist at the time of this thread posting. The reason why my data is out of date is because like MANY others I am watching from the sidelines. Plenty of us jumped on board day 1 of BFA just to find out the MMO was a mess until the x.1 patch. The big fear with Shadowlands that has been spoken about by many is the fear of pigeonholing.
Since Covenants are the foundation of the entire expansion with everything else being built on top of that simple choice the concept of pigeonholing has been continues to be a fear for a lot of people. There is nothing remotely about Kyrian that could possibly make me want to play WoW and have anything that resembles fun but as people can see from the information available Kyrian is really the only choice in a performance based MMO.
We shall see how the data changes now that heroic and Mythic +10 are unlocked but I expect to see it shift further towards min/max potential for each spec.
If you have played in low tier or mid tier progression guilds you know they do not expect perfection and are mostly happy that people show up so I doubt they care about Covenant choice or min/max but the reality is the wrong choice could result in hours added to an otherwise straight forward run.
Given what I am seeing from tuning of people running Castle Nathria heroic is not easy by any means at the current gear level. This thread is not designed to bash on Blizzard but to point out hard data that they were wrong when they told people not to be concerned about pigeonholing based on "what is best".
Last edited by Puremallace; 2020-12-10 at 12:53 AM.
The data he posted was from when covenants did not exist. I did not say that at the time of this thread posting covenants did not exist. He linked data from last expansion and pretended it was from this data collection, which is quite comical. I always understood his points and was trying to help him understand but to be honest now I think he just doesn't know what he's talking about.
They are not that bad and will most likely have very little impact on your performance.
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Why do you trust other peoples opinions of what is best like its gospel to you?
Player perception is quite often wrong as been proven many times in the past.
Also. What makes you think you are so good at the game that your choice of covenants will have the impact you think it will? Is your execution of the class and your ability to use it to its maximum potential that good?
If Blizzard removed the mobility actives from Venthyr and Night Fae then we'd have much less of an issue, you know it ...we all know it.
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I thought the same but the venthyr one is, at bes, covenient, is not game breaking at all.
Night fae can be a little bit better, but even then, its not such a big deal, I mostly see it bing used in between mobs or in the mall.
The venthyr one I just use to get to some places slightly faster in the exploration territory, I rarely use it in dungeons, that's for sure.
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I think, one thing that really affect it, more than RP or maybe even performance (IMO), is how it plays.
EG: I left venthyr in my BM monk for kyrian simply because weapons of order feels better to play than fallen order. I imagine it's the case for many players.
It is also one of the reasons why I picked venthyr for my Blood DK, swarming mists simply feels better to play than abomination's limb.
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