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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    So first there was a thread about BM being bad on open world content and now someone is complaining about MM....

    Meanwhile I'm thinking about all the rare mobs in the Maw that I can easily solo on my Hunter but have no chance to do on my Rogue...

    I really think some Hunters should try to play other classes to get some context before they complain about Hunters being "bad" in open world content...

    Sometimes it seems like "Hunter only players" live in this bubble where they have no idea what going on in the game other than them and their pets. Complaining about MM or BM hunter being weak or having issues in open world content is absolutely delusional. Yes, it might be worse than BFA. Hunters have a longer res time on pets. That's true. But it's still much much much better than how other classes are doing currently.

    Just be happy with your class which is the absolute best and most diverse class in the whole game. Hunters got it goooooooooood!
    This so much. I swear to god there is a thread like this every single day, meanwhile other classes have real issues.
    This isn't funny anymore. Stop

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    So. Fricking. Annoying.

    So obviously I had to go from BM to MM because I enjoy some PVP outside of raids, and BM is currently a dumpster fire at PVP.
    Yes you are right MM hunter is terrible at solo or Torghast, espiecally at killing last boss.

    Pet is not as strong as the BM one and there is nothing to offset it.

    Whole MM hunter doesnt feel like a great spec tbh...

    Like in pve the way you do bl/Primal Rage that you have to summon pet, cast it and dismiss so you get that 10% dmg buff back .. dismissing takes long time like 3-4 secs where you gonna loose that BL uptime and damage... its unpolished for MM, they should just get proper BL in hunter theme like "Party Focus" or something ...

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    So. Fricking. Annoying.

    So obviously I had to go from BM to MM because I enjoy some PVP outside of raids, and BM is currently a dumpster fire at PVP.

    First thing I noticed is that absolute only way for the pet to get aoe aggro is to use Misdirection, which obviously has a 30 sec cd and is far from usable every pull, not to mention it has an 8 sec duration, so trying to pull some mobs that don't stick together and then wait for them to jog to the pet, is going to make the timer run out before I can pull all I wanted.

    Meanwhile, BM doesn't have this problem because it has Beast Cleave which is up constantly and the hunter's damage is too low for it to pull aggro off the pet, not to mention it also has Stomp for more aoe damage and threat.

    So basically both my Exhilaration heal and Camouflage are kept on cd because I have to use them all the time to stay alive as I get hit by mobs after they drop aggro on my pet or just come straight to me, which is really annoying, not to mention any aoe killing requires jumping through hoops like dropping traps and binding shot. Meanwhile BM and pretty much anything else save mage, can just pull half the map and aoe it down.

    Would it be so gamebreaking to give tank pets a a baseline aoe attack?
    This has not been my MM experience at all, been breezing through solo content and pretty much only use my pet for elites or things I can't kill with my opening burst.

  4. #24
    I think MM is actually one of the better solo specs in the game. It's not going to be as good as BM but it still has a lot of strengths in kiting and it can still pet tank at least a few things at once. Try being an immobile caster without a pocket tank at all instead, particularly a clothie. Besides, you can just spec BM for solo content and MM for group PvE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wadrak View Post
    Yes you are right MM hunter is terrible at solo or Torghast, espiecally at killing last boss.

    Pet is not as strong as the BM one and there is nothing to offset it.

    Whole MM hunter doesnt feel like a great spec tbh...

    Like in pve the way you do bl/Primal Rage that you have to summon pet, cast it and dismiss so you get that 10% dmg buff back .. dismissing takes long time like 3-4 secs where you gonna loose that BL uptime and damage... its unpolished for MM, they should just get proper BL in hunter theme like "Party Focus" or something ...
    Obviously MM is going to be worse at solo content than the dedicated pet spec. That's perfectly fine. They are good at different things, as specs of a class should be.

    BTW, this is absolutely not how you do Bloodlust as an MM Hunter. Not only do you lose 3 secs by casting dismiss pet but it takes something like 20% for Lone Wolf to ramp back up to 10%. It does not grant 10% immediately. Having a pet out is only a damage loss in AoE situations. On single target it's roughly on par with Lone Wolf. I don't think there are any situations in PvE where it's worth dismissing your pet after using Primal Rage. I would prefer Lone Wolf were somehow a single target boost only (e.g. it doesn't buff Trick Shots damage or something) but this really isn't a big issue.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    So first there was a thread about BM being bad on open world content and now someone is complaining about MM....

    Meanwhile I'm thinking about all the rare mobs in the Maw that I can easily solo on my Hunter but have no chance to do on my Rogue...

    I really think some Hunters should try to play other classes to get some context before they complain about Hunters being "bad" in open world content...

    Sometimes it seems like "Hunter only players" live in this bubble where they have no idea what going on in the game other than them and their pets. Complaining about MM or BM hunter being weak or having issues in open world content is absolutely delusional. Yes, it might be worse than BFA. Hunters have a longer res time on pets. That's true. But it's still much much much better than how other classes are doing currently.

    Just be happy with your class which is the absolute best and most diverse class in the whole game. Hunters got it goooooooooood!
    these people have to be trolls,no way anyone is seriously saying the most op outdoor class is bad,hunters dont even need the pet to tank,they can perma kite wile doing 100% dps

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    these people have to be trolls,no way anyone is seriously saying the most op outdoor class is bad,hunters dont even need the pet to tank,they can perma kite wile doing 100% dps
    They don't even need to kite most of the time. You can just blow up everything in a single Wild Spirits. If you can't handle outdoor PvE as a hunter of any spec, you need to just uninstall because you are terrible.

  7. #27
    Mechagnome
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    Did something change and we can't switch specs on demand anymore? (Well on demand with the bag-item/resting in an Inn)

    I've been BM for 15+ years at this point and never saw a need to switch. Maybe I was unaware of this change.
    Koriani - Guardians of Forever - BM Huntard on TB; Kharmic - Worgen Druid - TB
    Koriani - none - Dragon of Secret World
    Karmic - Moirae - SWTOR
    inactive: Frith-Rae - Horizons/Istaria; Koriani in multiple old MMOs. I been around a long time.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Piesor View Post
    BM with Spirit Beasts is the best for leveling imo. There is no need to go MM for leveling just because it deals a bit more dmg on a Patchwerk Sim.
    If you want to level MM anyway you will have to moce a lot more and utilize your CCs (traps, concussive shot etc). I woul definitely use the pet and not stick to lone wolf since this will make your life even more stressful.

    I like leveling as MM since it's a bit more challenging and rewarding. I use the following macros:

    #showtooltip Misdirection
    /cast [@focus,help][help][@pet,exists] Misdirection
    Just use before pulling multiple mobs. Use feign death after aggroing. Mobs should be down before you aggro again.

    /petattack [@focus, harm, nodead][]
    /cast Hunter's Mark
    Using this for several reasons. Prepull to apply hunter's mark (what I would forget otherwise) while the pet already attacks the enemy when you cast your opener. Additionally you have an attack hotkey for your pet. You may add /cast growl on top to taunt an aggroing enemy during a pull with multiple enemies.

    Perhaps that helps if you want to stick to MM while leveling.
    Clefthooves is the best since it have blood of the rhino and Thick Hide. It can tank a lot more mobs than the other pets

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Nythiz View Post

    Just do world quests and stuff as BM ?
    Easy fix; it's what 90% of the MM players do as well I'm sure.
    MM isn't very suited for world content unless you 1v1 everything and try to kill it before it reaches you. And even then it's iffy as you will simply die if you accidentally pull extra's.

    If you determined on MM for world content:
    - Be smarter with MD, popping it before knowing what you try to pull and then raging because it doesn't work as you planned is not MD's fault.
    You can cluster enemies with tar trap / binding shot / bursting shot / conc shot / freezing trap / etc and then MD big damage when everything is clustered.
    - Use FD to give all aggro to pet as well.

    That said, unless you want the challange/practice, just go BM.
    Clearly you're fed up enough that you're willing to make a post, if you reach that level you might as well just go BM :P



    As Iwa Washi mentioned. Clefthoof is THE pet for solo content, it's the most tanky of all the pets and heals the most of all the pets.
    Turn off Animal Companion (so it's damage and leech isn't nerfed by 35%) and that thing is near 'player tank' levels of tanky.

    Spirit Beast is a good alternative at times if you don't need to have your pet tank though (e.g. in the Maw with a tank buddy), as it's healing can generally keep you alive against all the random aoe damage going out. But it's not the best solo pet.




    Rogue just stealths by everything, not even NEEDING to pull half the packs that hunter might have to pull. With a combination of sap / vanish / sprint, this is insanely powerful. 90% of the time as a rogue in the maw I don't even NEED to kill 10 mobs, as i can sneak past and just surgically take out the 1 mob that's standing in the way.
    Every class has it's perks.

    On my shadow priest anything solo can be insanely hard as things tear through me, however it too has it's own perks. Self healing which can safe you where hunters die (pet can't soak AoE damage and hunters have some of the lowest survivability against constant damage pressure); very high single target damage/burst that is not tied to long cooldowns or long cast times, so you can chain 1v1 fights very fast.

    Also, if you're THIS jealous of hunters (which you clearly are by all the BM hate mongering), maybe just roll a hunter instead of littering the forum with flame bait.
    Wait, no animal companion? Dont you arent 2 clefthoofs better then 1?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Aranis View Post
    Wait, no animal companion? Dont you arent 2 clefthoofs better then 1?
    No, Animal companion turns on a hidden -35% damage aura to your main pet = less leech for your main pet = it is less tanky.
    Your "buddy" pet from Animal companion is not as strong as your main pet and isn't a true pet per se.

    So for situations where you need your pet to maximize its tankiness, Torghast as an example, you should select Killer Instinct or Dire Beast. That also means that you should never accept Animal Companion when it is offered as an Anima Power in Torghast.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    No, Animal companion turns on a hidden -35% damage aura to your main pet = less leech for your main pet = it is less tanky.
    Your "buddy" pet from Animal companion is not as strong as your main pet and isn't a true pet per se.

    So for situations where you need your pet to maximize its tankiness, Torghast as an example, you should select Killer Instinct or Dire Beast. That also means that you should never accept Animal Companion when it is offered as an Anima Power in Torghast.
    But dps wise its still the go to? Since both pets would do 65% each?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    So. Fricking. Annoying.

    So obviously I had to go from BM to MM because I enjoy some PVP outside of raids, and BM is currently a dumpster fire at PVP.

    First thing I noticed is that absolute only way for the pet to get aoe aggro is to use Misdirection, which obviously has a 30 sec cd and is far from usable every pull, not to mention it has an 8 sec duration, so trying to pull some mobs that don't stick together and then wait for them to jog to the pet, is going to make the timer run out before I can pull all I wanted.

    Meanwhile, BM doesn't have this problem because it has Beast Cleave which is up constantly and the hunter's damage is too low for it to pull aggro off the pet, not to mention it also has Stomp for more aoe damage and threat.

    So basically both my Exhilaration heal and Camouflage are kept on cd because I have to use them all the time to stay alive as I get hit by mobs after they drop aggro on my pet or just come straight to me, which is really annoying, not to mention any aoe killing requires jumping through hoops like dropping traps and binding shot. Meanwhile BM and pretty much anything else save mage, can just pull half the map and aoe it down.

    Would it be so gamebreaking to give tank pets a a baseline aoe attack?
    spec bm then for shitty solo pve.

  13. #33
    High Overlord Knight Meta's Avatar
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    Speaking as someone who has been a fan and main BM player for years who every single expansion has been forced into MM at some point due to how dogsh*t BM is at times; I gotta wonder if you are just trolling, have negative 2 in item level or if your Aimed Shot is not bound to any keys.

    I will use Torghast as an example as that is the pinnacle of Solo PvE content atm; at layer 8 with my current "lowly geared" (According to the common community and their Rio standard) 200 ilvl Hunter - There is no challenge to be had. You Aimshot with an instant Arcane shot which sets most mobs up to rather be dead or be within Killshot range. Don't DO AoE pulls unless Misdirect is off the CD, simple. If you are in such a rush that... World quests or Torghast makes you think MM is weak because "You need to pull everything all the time" and you can't take a moment to just nib down one and one mob at the time (Which in all fairness is almost faster than AoE'ing them down) then I am sorry to say but your complaints will fall on deaf ears because there is nothing to complain about.

    MM also do have an insane AoE burst, Multishot into a Doubble Tapped Aimed or Barrage is enough to slay most regular packs of mobs in AoE situations (Bar high health elites ofc) but even then it's little to no challenge. Just aim-snipe mobs one after another and do AoE when you got the CD's.

    ^This is all me speaking without taking Wild Spirits into consideration because I am not a Night Fae Hunter. So with that ability into the mix too; it should just be easier.
    Fact (Not because I say so but because a fact is a fact): WoTLK / Legion > MOP > TBC > Vanilla > Cata > BFA > WoD.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Aranis View Post
    But dps wise its still the go to? Since both pets would do 65% each?
    Yes, Animal Companion is the best of the 3 talents in the 1st row dps-wise, but....
    They don't 65% each. Your "buddy" pet, which has an even worse AI than the regular pet, only does auto attacks and KC, not basic attacks. It also does beast cleave. So it isn't 2*65=130 of normal damage, just a bit more than 100% normal damage. So it is better than Killer Instinct, but not by 30%.

    Also the hidden -35% damage aura can affect other pets - for example for a long time if you had chosen Animal Companion then your Spitting Cobra would do 35% less damage. As far as I know most/all of those bugs/features have been fixed.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Aranis View Post
    But dps wise its still the go to? Since both pets would do 65% each?
    Yes, but it's not that simple.
    Keep in mind that the second pet does only KC and auto attacks and that you lose the dps from killer instinct.
    It's not 100% vs 130%, AC is like a 5% dps increase.

    That said the original topic to which I replied was about pet survivability
    And if you struggle with content you don't want to sacrifice the pet survivability for more dps.

    If you want to do maxiumum dps --> Animal Companion
    If you want your pet to tank --> Killer Instinct

    The difference in leech for the main pet (which will be tanking) is quite huge.
    Maybe not an issue if you are 200+ ilvl and/or are pulling small packs, but for low item level and/or big mob pack pulling (e.g. Torghast) I would advise to not take Animal Companion.

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