First Day of Raiding Statistics: DPS

[Hyrican]

It usually comes down to damage uptime. To my knowledge most people do their sims assuming they can have 90-100% damage uptime on boss, which is not realistic in some, if not most, bosses. There's movement involved, and thems speedy catbois are good at that. The faster you can zoom about, the faster you can get back to actually doing damage.

Mobility classes are most of the time stronger when everyone is still learning the fights.


the strong showing of the few ferals will close over time probably... as other classes learn to have more uptime and optimize around boss abilities. It is easier for cat to run in/out and you have a lot of energy pooling inactive time where you can deal more easily with running around. But i also expect a bigger benefit from other classes legendaries... i am underwhelmed by the overall affect of them for a feral compared to not wearing one.

If you wear 10 ilvl lesser gear compared to feral with leg., balance will sim 500dps higher without wearing a legendary...

[Vilendor]

Hybrid classes out dps mages, yep, working as intended.

"Hybrid classes" in 2020 ... sure buddy...

Also see this response:

This is a shitty excuse that people were told to drop expansions ago by Blizzard. Your "pures" can switch to 3 different flavors of damage with own flow, set of utilities, mobility and other stuff each. If you want to be damager as priest, you're LOCKED to SP. By what right you preach about dropping a damage penalty on top of that? And it's not like people dream of dropping their spec and going healing either. Just treat them as separate classes and throw this excuse to garbage where it belongs.

[D3athsting]

Nice to see arcane (and mage to a lesser extent) being trash tier

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And lol @580 survival parses from ~38000 hunter parses overall, the effort that went into changing that spec really paid out.

People who play melee tend to reroll to ranged and blizz pretends a melee spec added to the "most ranged" class in the game to be successful? How could they be so naive?

[blankfaced]

This is a shitty excuse that people were told to drop expansions ago by Blizzard. Your "pures" can switch to 3 different flavors of damage with own flow, set of utilities, mobility and other stuff each. If you want to be damager as priest, you're LOCKED to SP. By what right you preach about dropping a damage penalty on top of that? And it's not like people dream of dropping their spec and going healing either. Just treat them as separate classes and throw this excuse to garbage where it belongs.

Trying to claim a mage can respec and all of a sudden be able to heal? The fact a hybrid can stop their dps during heavy raid aoe damage and spam heal themselves to stay alive is why they should have lower damage.

A dead dps does no damage.....

I agree that this was obvious. Even lowbie bgs predicted this.

[Beuargh]

Do yourself a favor and learn to sort warcraftlogs properly op, thanks.

5 or 6 specs need buffs, 5 or 6 need nerfs. I'm fine with the middle pack. They really fucked up with that gap between the top 6 and last 6, but for the rest they nailed it pretty good IMO

[Twinkelle]

This was the expansion that finally got me away from assassination after 11 years or so.

We're pushing CE this expansion and my baby just doesn't cut it.

I didn't quite realise how bad it was, though.

[Aphrel]

I play a class with 3 dps specs, and all 3 of them are in the bottom half of specs... zzz

Youd think with 3 dps specs the highest preforming should be a somewhat decent choice... but instead with the choice of 3 specs dps specs my class still lands at 10 out of 12...

Its a fucking statistical anomaly is what it is... 1/64 assuming rng tuning... with warriors being 2nd worst at a 1/36 chance of ending up being class 11/12 with 2 dps specs.

and its even worse if your a good player looking at the 90 percentile... then mages is below warriors.. landing us at 11/12th class despite having 3 fucking dps specs...

Fucking hell when are they gonna learn to balance shit.

[Re4leader1]

*Blizz* UH needs a massive nerf into the ground you say?! Okay! Coming right up, blizz can never make small adjustments.

[tru]

They need to bake SnD back into assas and buff some stuff. All three having maintenance buffs like that suck. It's a niche thing anymore any should stay with combats redheaded step child.

[Gorsameth]

What happened with feral? Every site predicted them dead bottom

Convoke Spirits (Night Fae) is crazy good burst.

[Kaver]

3% nerf for UH, 2% buff for Assa, 17% buff for Havoc, call it a day - Blizzard style.

Also, 2 weeks later, nerf a bunch of random Covenants, Conduits and Legendaries because you've explicitly told players you wouldn't do so.... again.

Why only a 2% buff for assa?

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And lol @580 survival parses from ~38000 hunter parses overall, the effort that went into changing that spec really paid out.

Yes they should really have anticipated this. To be fair, individually SV is actually a pretty fun spec but it just have no chance at all of competing with 2 of the best ranged specs in the game. Plus most players perceive hunter as a ranged class and a melee spec will never be accepted by the majority.

[Indil]

I can understand the original craft, I'm a Ce famed raider, but we are on mmochampion, should have linked the bars for a graphical impact

[Ashnazg]

Trying to claim a mage can respec and all of a sudden be able to heal? The fact a hybrid can stop their dps during heavy raid aoe damage and spam heal themselves to stay alive is why they should have lower damage.

A dead dps does no damage.....

This might come as a surprise to you, but in raiding there are classes that are dedicated to healing dps specs. Hybrid's ability to self heal themselves makes a very little impact on their ability to stay alive except during progression.

"Hybrid" arguments are inane and belong in 2010. Move on already

[Vampyrr]

And what advice would you give the best players in the world about how they are wrong about the difficulty?

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HAHA, exactly my firs thought as well.

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I should have been clearer - after getting a few upgrades and having a little bit more experience (not that they hadnt done plenty on ptr when they could etc), heroic FELT much easier. Obviously it is harder when compared in a vacuum, but minor gear upgrades (not an entire difficulty worth of gear) and a few extra pulls made heroic feel smoother and easier to them.

And that is mostly concerning because these guys are FAR more geared than the target audience of the normal mode difficulty.

Seems blizzard agreed and the first round of HEAVY adjustments hit last night. I am sure more tuning is to come as the week progresses.

[Fatbeaverlol]

Don't fucking tell me what I want. It's annoying and offensive. The rest of your post is pedantic bullshit and illogical, aside from not being close to the pure dps vs other classes issue.

I made the mistake of thinking that perhaps you could have a rational discussion. Oh well.

how can that be offensive lol

[darklogrus]

So what about the community that only raid normal? Or only raid up to heroic?

They are going to spend the next couple months very slowly sludging through the raid on normal, and if current trends keep up I doubt they will see much of anything on Heroics if they even get that far. An if this is what the slightly above avg ran guilds are feeling Id hate to see what the next step down guilds are feeling.

The outer world stuff is more challenging too.
I am ok with it if this is what they want to do. But, they are gonna cave. They always do.

Never found it to be but I play a class that can counter the majority of it and has some pretty strong self heals.

[Roxinius]

really regretting leveling a warrior first

[Cæli]

There's one spec which class color is red that will get nerfed hard soon

[cordrann]

Oh, Im not faulting you for the post - just that I think this might change a bit after next lockout.

Well that will be a first :P

To be clear, I'm not saying we should revisit the hybrid tax but that pure specs should all be around the middle of the pack or better overall. There may be specific fights where that's not true but overall, it's the only thing they can do. Seeing a rogue spec below Ret is... no. That's just crap tuning on Blizzard's part.

If the disparity were 5-10%, I'd not even care about that. Someone is always at the bottom of lists like this and if I was playing Assassination rogue and it was, say, 7% under the top DPS... eh. But it's around 25% top to bottom which is just pathetic given that Blizzard can (or should be able to) run sims against the actual Nathria boss encounters for all of the classes.

More to the point, I could make the argument that a 7% drop in one player's DPS from the very best spec isn't going to matter on most encounters. But a 25% drop? And what do you do if, like mages, 2 of the 3 specs are below the median? Yeah, hard core raids will all just respec but people shouldn't feel the need to respect because the devs fucked up their tuning so badly.

"Pure" classes specs are exactly who should be at the bottom, as long as all their specs aren't. They can just respec and be viable in their role. If ret or windwalker are bottom dwellers they are just fucked.

[blankfaced]

This might come as a surprise to you, but in raiding there are classes that are dedicated to healing dps specs. Hybrid's ability to self heal themselves makes a very little impact on their ability to stay alive except during progression.

"Hybrid" arguments are inane and belong in 2010. Move on already

This might come as a surprise to you.... but being able to take down your "leet deepeeesser" blinders and see you need to heal yourself, and then having the capability to do so, is an invaluable tool that should be taken into account when balancing specs against each other. And those classes that are supposed to keep you "leet deepeeessers" alive aren't always able to reach you or get off a cast in time or have the mana to heal you. And in those moments being able to stop and heal yourself is an invaluable tool. Being able to dps and throw a heal at a tank or a group heal out if you can is an invaluable tool that should be taken into consideration when balancing dps. Hell, being able to taunt the mobs off your tank for a moment while you run is an invaluable tool that should be taken into account.

I would like druids to stay amazing, but some of the classes/specs need to be brought in line to where they should be for what they're capable of.