UH is a design patchwerk

[Guilford]

You are wrong.
They are all intertwined, except maybe for the dots, which are just that. dots.

Army of the dead + apocalypse + DT cd's are all affected by death coil (reduce CD / extend duration)
In order to be able to properly spam death coil, you need to manage our "plagues" (cringe) to maximize damage while building runic power. To further boost pet damage you pop unholy blight when the cd's align. It's all connected, and if you aren't feeling it, you probably don't understand the class and are underperforming.

The above paragraph basically shows how everything is anything but disjointed. We need to weave all our stuff together to be effective, if you aren't properly using all the abilities together to empower the others, you're doing it wrong.

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you are pressing the other buttons to bring the army out faster. come on, guy, do you even read what abilities do?

This is embarassing.

1.) Outside the opener UB/DT are the only CDs you have to make sure you line up regularly, at least until Army is back up.

2.) You use Apocalypse on cooldown. You don't hold it to line up with anything but UF(if you specced into it) or you're running Convocation which you won't be. So it's most definitely disjointed from your other cooldowns.

Do YOU read abilities or do any research or just spout nonsense?

[Runicblood]

This is embarassing.

1.) Outside the opener UB/DT are the only CDs you have to make sure you line up regularly, at least until Army is back up.

2.) You use Apocalypse on cooldown. You don't hold it to line up with anything but UF(if you specced into it) or you're running Convocation which you won't be. So it's most definitely disjointed from your other cooldowns.

Do YOU read abilities or do any research or just spout nonsense?

and to use apocalypse on cooldown faster you generate runic power to spam death coil, which also keeps DT up longer.

I seriously don't see how i'm spouting nonsense, you're saying that the spells have no connection between them, but they literally do...

edit
What more do you want as far as spell-connection than use X to reduce Y cooldown, but make sure you pop Z with Y for maximum effect.
They all effect eachother, and those of you saying they aren't connected ... i'm without words.

I imagine you guys want like "if you use apocalypse while DT is active you instead summon an abomination, and while abomination is active and you use a scourge strike the abomination duration is increased by 2 seconds, and death coil also increases DT, but you can also use army to further enhance abom and make it a necropolis that reigns death on the enemies, but only if you also have UB active, otherwise you turn into an ooz"

[Guilford]

and to use apocalypse on cooldown faster you generate runic power to spam death coil, which also keeps DT up longer.

I seriously don't see how i'm spouting nonsense, you're saying that the spells have no connection between them, but they literally do...

edit
What more do you want as far as spell-connection than use X to reduce Y cooldown, but make sure you pop Z with Y for maximum effect.
They all effect eachother, and those of you saying they aren't connected ... i'm without words.

I imagine you guys want like "if you use apocalypse while DT is active you instead summon an abomination, and while abomination is active and you use a scourge strike the abomination duration is increased by 2 seconds, and death coil also increases DT, but you can also use army to further enhance abom and make it a necropolis that reigns death on the enemies, but only if you also have UB active, otherwise you turn into an ooz"

DC sure does extend the duration of DT...if you're running Deadliest Coil, which I'm not. I'm running FM. Are you really trying to say the spec flows so well together because of the bandaids that keep it together? Weird.

[Baconeggcheese]

and to use apocalypse on cooldown faster you generate runic power to spam death coil, which also keeps DT up longer.

I seriously don't see how i'm spouting nonsense, you're saying that the spells have no connection between them, but they literally do...

edit
What more do you want as far as spell-connection than use X to reduce Y cooldown, but make sure you pop Z with Y for maximum effect.
They all effect eachother, and those of you saying they aren't connected ... i'm without words.

I imagine you guys want like "if you use apocalypse while DT is active you instead summon an abomination, and while abomination is active and you use a scourge strike the abomination duration is increased by 2 seconds, and death coil also increases DT, but you can also use army to further enhance abom and make it a necropolis that reigns death on the enemies, but only if you also have UB active, otherwise you turn into an ooz"

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=timeline Take a look at this timeline, this is the highest dps unholy parse on shriekwing.

He dumps his CDS at the beggining with his opener which are all just fire and forget guardians, and then he basically presses 3 buttons and just presses his CDS on cooldown as the fight allows. Something like 70%ish of the damage is coming from those guardian CD's.

Its odd to pretend like the spec is anything other than what it is. You dump guardian CD's and then you press 3 buttons for a loong time to reduce the CD of said guardian CDs so you can dump them again. That's the entire spec.

[Runicblood]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=timeline Take a look at this timeline, this is the highest dps unholy parse on shriekwing.

He dumps his CDS at the beggining with his opener which are all just fire and forget guardians, and then he basically presses 3 buttons and just presses his CDS on cooldown as the fight allows. Something like 70%ish of the damage is coming from those guardian CD's.

Its odd to pretend like the spec is anything other than what it is. You dump guardian CD's and then you press 3 buttons for a loong time to reduce the CD of said guardian CDs so you can dump them again. That's the entire spec.

Well, yeah, that's what unholy dk is this expansion. Summon minions and deal damage.


Your argument implies that that isn't what every other class looks like on logs.

Start the pull by pressing all CD's, pop them on CD, spam the other 3 bread and butters.
If you can provide an example of a "truly interactive and not patchwerk design", i'll try to broaden my horizons and accept that my class is badly designed.

[Baconeggcheese]

Well, yeah, that's what unholy dk is this expansion. Summon minions and deal damage.

Your argument implies that that isn't what every other class looks like on logs.

Start the pull by pressing all CD's, pop them on CD, spam the other 3 bread and butters.
If you can provide an example of a "truly interactive and not patchwerk design", i'll try to broaden my horizons and accept that my class is badly designed.

Its not a "what that looks like on logs" situation, I'm not oversimplifying the spec. That's really all there is to it, because all of unholy's CDs are guardian based and blizzard insists that guardians can only function as single target dots. There's a massive difference between that and any spec where your CD is a damage amp and what you press after you pop your CD's actually matters.

Windwalker monk is a great example, I'd have to sit here and type a lil essay about all the bits that go into maximizing that spec. Especially because storm earth and fire is a horribly buggy ass ability (along with mark of the crane) and weapons of the order completely turns the spec on its head (along with SEF) because the spec is not made to handle having extra resources since you can't press abilities twice in a row and it doubles the CDR of the spec on 2 short cooldown abilities. How you play during CD's is completely different to how you play outside of them, and both have more going on than at any point during unholy's rotation.

I think you'd agree that the gap between a bad WW, average, and good WW is quite a bit larger than a bad, average, and good unholy DK. Specifically because of how much nuance there is in either specs rotation.

[Runicblood]

Its not a "what that looks like on logs" situation, I'm not oversimplifying the spec. That's really all there is to it, because all of unholy's CDs are guardian based and blizzard insists that guardians can only function as single target dots. There's a massive difference between that and any spec where your CD is a damage amp and what you press after you pop your CD's actually matters.

Windwalker monk is a great example, I'd have to sit here and type a lil essay about all the bits that go into maximizing that spec. Especially because storm earth and fire is a horribly buggy ass ability (along with mark of the crane) and weapons of the order completely turns the spec on its head (along with SEF) because the spec is not made to handle having extra resources since you can't press abilities twice in a row and it doubles the CDR of the spec on 2 short cooldown abilities. How you play during CD's is completely different to how you play outside of them, and both have more going on than at any point during unholy's rotation.

I think you'd agree that the gap between a bad WW, average, and good WW is quite a bit larger than a bad, average, and good unholy DK. Specifically because of how much nuance there is in either specs rotation.

Wow, such amazing gameplay, you need to try to not use the same spell twice. And while not using the same spell back to back pop your 3 minute cooldowns and continue as before.

Invalid.

[Baconeggcheese]

Wow, such amazing gameplay, you need to try to not use the same spell twice. And while not using the same spell back to back pop your 3 minute cooldowns and continue as before.

Invalid.

WW doesn't have a single 3 minute cd... and like I mentioned you absolutely don't play the same during your CD's.

We just talking out of our asses now?

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Wow, such amazing gameplay, you need to try to not use the same spell twice. And while not using the same spell back to back pop your 3 minute cooldowns and continue as before.

Invalid.

Yo homie, didn't you post this last week?

mmochamp turned into a circle jerk

hopefully i dont get banned for this, but i think it's about time i retire these forums.

Every. single. post. is about how one part of the player base bashes the other part. and non-stop whining about how blizzard isn't making the game for them.

Peace bois. Will continue to get my news from here though.

So not only that you lied and created that bait thread, but now you're arguing over shit you make no sense on.


Congratulations, you made this topic a circle jerk.

[deenman]

first time i have enjoyed unholy since wrath

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Dot classes as a whole were gutted with the removal of dot snapshotting.

no it wasnt gutted,it was a booring mecanic that had you babysit procs and timers instead of having the feeling of popping off,unholy feels much better these days,frost would also feel better if they stoped with this breath being the best option boner

or keep it best but give it the void form treatment,heck maybe even make it baseline

[Kalarm]

Quite frankly, been trying to get into the spec but I really can't understand it. I have every class at 50, got 4 of them at 60 (Enh sham, hunter, DK, Pally).

Been trying to get into UH as it's doing really well now but... My god, it just doesn't work for me. You got a big bunch of CD and I don't really get if they have an optimal use. You use runes to put diseases on and then consume them another move that use runes OR one of the big CD uses a bunch of them. You got some other debuff that I don't even remember what it's use is. You got some other ability to debuff a bigger group with that debuff... And in all that it just doesn't seem to work well for me. Oh yeah and then you got death coil who sometimes light up so I guess I gotta use it, same when I reach near maximum RP... it doesn't seem to do much in any case.

It's the only spec that I tried that I got an issue like this. Most specs got a clear objective. UH, I have yet to really understand WTF they are trying to make me do.

[Sazalol]

Yea UH is really a mess right now

[Absintheminded]

I definitely get mentally exhausted on bosses with Unholy. It's just a pain watching wounds non stop while also watching for CD's every 45 seconds and then 2 minutes. This is also with a build centered around Unholy Blight + Army of the Damned, that way I can pop Apoc, DT and Blight all at the same time every 45 seconds. But making it more manageable really doesn't fix the problem I have with using like 6 or so GCD for wind up before I even get into a rotation.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I've always recommended to people who toy with the idea of playing Unholy to make friends with UI addons or specific WA's that help you track things easier. Things like how many FW's on your target (or any target) and when spells like Unholy Blight, Apocalypse, Dark Transformation, and even AMS are about to come off cooldown.


I use an addon called "TellMeWhen" and you can make custom icons to watch buffs, debuffs, cooldown timers, procs, etc.


I don't spend half the amount of time anymore keeping my eyes on my Runes or FW's as I did before.

[Kaver]

I definitely get mentally exhausted on bosses with Unholy. It's just a pain watching wounds non stop while also watching for CD's every 45 seconds and then 2 minutes. This is also with a build centered around Unholy Blight + Army of the Damned, that way I can pop Apoc, DT and Blight all at the same time every 45 seconds. But making it more manageable really doesn't fix the problem I have with using like 6 or so GCD for wind up before I even get into a rotation.

Now I agree that weakauras shouldn't be mandatory for the game, however having Weakauras in the middle of your screen makes Unholy 1000 times more effortless to play. Tracking multiple CDs is a hell if you only use the default Blizzard UI, but if you have weakauras in the middle of your screen then it's simple a matter of pressing whatever lights up.

[Absintheminded]

Now I agree that weakauras shouldn't be mandatory for the game, however having Weakauras in the middle of your screen makes Unholy 1000 times more effortless to play. Tracking multiple CDs is a hell if you only use the default Blizzard UI, but if you have weakauras in the middle of your screen then it's simple a matter of pressing whatever lights up.

I actually just started using it a couple weeks ago. It helps.

[msdos]

You'll fat finger Unholy no matter what in PVP, even with weakauras on the screen. Your mind can't handle being in min/max mode and then you all of a sudden get CCed. If anything interrupts your ramp, you no longer have a sequence to go by, you're now just randomly pressing buttons.

Which is basically what Unholy feels like in PVP, random button presses. Even the execute feels weird in PVP.

[Dire]

As much as i'd like to disagree, i run Unholy in raid and this is the way it is. There is not REAL synergy in the spec. Its fire, forget then fire on cd. The "procs" are predictable and the abilities are a little disjointed without specific soulbinds.

I enjoy the chaos of it and i do fairly well, however.

Embrace the chaos *shrug*

[SamuelRichards]

I REALLY enjoy UH DK right now. AS i have in BfA.
The pet and the wounds work together. The disease is a quick thing on top.
Not everything has to be intertwined.

I think it is good as is.

Frost on the other hand is boring as hell.

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how are you doing?

[HolyCowBro]

What were they thinking when they reiterated on this class over the past expansions? It's like they took several puzzle pieces and duct taped them together instead of solving the puzzle to make a fitting picture.
We've got a pet, we've got the runic system, we've got festering wounds, we've got a disease... and it's like most of these parts function independantly of one another. It doesn't flow together.

You manage your pet but it has no effect on festering wounds, the other core mechanic. You manage your wounds but then you get random Death Coil procs thrown at you. On top, you need to reapply a dot every couple seconds. Not complex or difficult - Everything is just so disjunct!

I guess I'm just frustrated because I enjoy the spec and I can see that it could yet be better.

Just sounds like you have little understanding of how to actually play the spec honestly. Give it a go and follow some guides or video tutorials on how to play the spec. It has some of the best synergy between abilities in the game imo.