The Two Americas Divided Over Democracy

[Milchshake]

Yesterday, seventeen states filed a brief in the Supreme Court in support of Texas' request to throw out millions of votes.
This is the product of a lot Republicans in these states using their offices to throw out (millions) of votes in four other states that didn't vote the way the wanted.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/10/polit...ion/index.html

What happens in a country when a major political party is so unpopular, they become anti-democracy to hold onto power?




The states that are supporting this effort to throw out millions of Americans’ votes in other states.Also includes a number of states that had to enact the ACA by referendum, because their elected officials kept blocking it.

[Shadowferal]

Premise is wrong.
It's more about select people trying to undermine the will of their own electorate.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Nah divided over white supremacy and everyone else.

[Ivanstone]

What happens in a country when a major political party is so unpopular, they become anti-democracy to hold onto power?

To be a little fair, a lot of them are doing it because they don't want to get primaried. Its a lot of empty posturing and even Alito isn't humoring them.

In the particular case of Texas AG Ken Paxton its also to distract from his own indictment on securities fraud.

[Felya]

Premise is wrong.
It's more about select people trying to undermine the will of their own electorate.

Groveling for pardons...

Edit: If I had a federal charge against me... I would join these states in a heart beat. What would I have to lose? Trump sees my name, increasing my chances of a pardon. It fails, no skin off my ass...

[Endus]

The Republicans stand for nothing but white supremacy and fascism, at this point. That's why this lawsuit exists; the fascists are trying to seize power through any means they can scramble for, because the processes of democracy will not hand them that power directly. They legitimately do not give any shits about democracy or fairness, all they care about is securing power for themselves.

Some quotes from 1984 if anyone thinks I'm somehow being hyperbolic, here, because I'm really not;

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end.

One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.

For if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when once they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority had no function, and they would sweep it away. In the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance.

We're not in the middle of Big Brother's world, but the red states are in the beginning stages and it's those very principles that form the basis of their position.

[Blur4stuff]

These two sides aren't equal as others have pointed out. Right wingers lust for power and a significant portion of their voters live in an alternative reality where they've made up their own facts.

[cubby]

Just split the federal government into two entities: "Coastal" and "Rural" or something.

There are massive cultural gaps between these states, up to the point that I feel them having the same federal government just is no longer justified, with an emphasis on the word 'justice' in justified. Similar is done in other nations when there are massive (cultural) disagreements between multiple regions within the same nation.

Likewise it's idiotic every time some conservative president is elected that he starts ramming his policies through on more progressive / modern / advanced coastal states.

But they'll also have to keep in mind that if federal government is split in two, that they'll have to be responsible for their own budget. Currently all these rural / conservatives states are only still kept afloat because of massive amounts of democrat money.

That might seem like the best solution, but there could be no reasonable split. Some of the "coastal" states are conservative and some of the "rural" states are liberal. I am entirely sympathetic to your suggestion, however, because I'm sick and tired of trying to explain and help willfully ignorant people (to be clear I'm referring to "rurals").

What's even worse is that every time a Conservative Fuckwit makes it to the White House, they dial back our ability to join the 21st century. We still don't have women's rights, universal health care, fantastic paid leave, retirement, etc. Almost every other developed country has those things (I can't think of any that don't).

The solution? Nobody has one. Period. Both sides just keep trying - well, the Democrats keep trying, the Republicans keep stirring up the shit. How do we fix a nation where 72 million people voted on willful ignorance?

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder if this will be the norm now from Republicans after they lose elections—“We didn’t lose! The entire system is just corrupt!”

Yeah, okay

Shit - they fucking won in 2016 and still claimed corrupt!

- - - Updated - - -

These two sides aren't equal as others have pointed out. Right wingers lust for power and a significant portion of their voters live in an alternative reality where they've made up their own facts.

And don't seem to have enough brains to understand they are literally voting against their own interests.

- - - Updated - - -

The Republicans stand for nothing but white supremacy and fascism, at this point. That's why this lawsuit exists; the fascists are trying to seize power through any means they can scramble for, because the processes of democracy will not hand them that power directly. They legitimately do not give any shits about democracy or fairness, all they care about is securing power for themselves.

Some quotes from 1984 if anyone thinks I'm somehow being hyperbolic, here, because I'm really not;

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end.

One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.

For if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when once they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority had no function, and they would sweep it away. In the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance.

We're not in the middle of Big Brother's world, but the red states are in the beginning stages and it's those very principles that form the basis of their position.

Couldn't have said it better myself. 1984 and The Handmaid's Tale are but two outcomes to what the Republicans desire in the United States.

[bladeXcrasher]

Not surprised our corrupt indicted AG is leading such a frivolous lawsuit. Fishing for a pardon.

[cubby]

As a fan of The Handmaid’s Tale TV series, I’ve often thought how utterly terrifying it would be if that reality happened in the US, no doubt orchestrated by Republicans.

Something like that is already afoot, although not quite as...dramatic as the series. Kavanaugh has questioned women's right to feminine products (yes, tampons) and the new one literally belonged to a group of people who had women advisors call Handmaids. Unless there is a kind of apocalypse-like event in the series, we won't see a major shift all of a sudden, we'll just see the gradual decline of America's social system.

[Wilfire]

Endus, Republican values are the opposite of fascism. Read some Hannah Arendt. Fascism arises when disfranchised individuals flock to a "great movement" that makes them feel important. Rural southern states still have a sense of community left. They are voting Republican because they want to preserve their way of life and stop corporations from moving manufacturing jobs abroad and forcing rural Americans to move to big cities and compete for ever-dwindling job openings in oversaturated services industries. There is no ground more fertile for the rise of fascism than millions of people living in tiny stacked boxes in huge cities with no real human connections. If you want to see a little fascist, look no further than to the people who hop from social movement to social movement in hopes of "making a change" and "being on the right side of history".

Look what moving manufacturing jobs abroad does. Little Hope turned into a deserted ghost town because the only factory closed down. Voting Democrat is voting for neoliberal globalization and more deserted ghost towns while the big regional services hubs grow ever more bloated and spew their vile corruption across the land.

[Felya]

Endus, Republican values are the opposite of fascism.

Can you at least wait until republicans stop demanding that millions of Americans votes be thrown out?

[Wilfire]

Can you at least wait until republicans stop demanding that millions of Americans votes be thrown out?

Recount and verification != throwing out votes

[Felya]

Little Hope turned into a deserted ghost town because the only factory closed down. Voting Democrat is voting for neoliberal globalization and more deserted ghost towns while the big regional services hubs grow ever more bloated and spew their vile corruption across the land.

Uhm... Poland and India are stealing our jobs, because they teach basic IT in schools. The IT outsourcing industry is set to grow by 94 billion by 2024. While our president is subsidizing coal plant and manufacturing to automate, screaming about how teaching confederacy in schools is the problem.

Edit: Where was Cyberpunk 2077 developed? Does that count as stealing our jobs?

[Edge-]

Recount and verification != throwing out votes

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...rs/6437897002/

That's just one state. Inform yourself.

[Felya]

Recount and verification != throwing out votes

He is demanding votes be tossed out... sorry, those be the facts. Remember, democracy is bad... we need elite billionaire to put judges in office to secure his win... right?

[Wilfire]

Uhm... Poland and India are stealing our jobs, because they teach basic IT in schools. The IT outsourcing industry is set to grow by 94 billion by 2024. While our president is subsidizing coal plant and manufacturing to automate, screaming about how teaching confederacy in schools is the problem.

Not everyone can work in IT. A county needs to have a wide variety of jobs for people to be able to live a comfortable existence. Neoliberal globalization leads to only one logical conclusion and it's hyperspecialization. While on paper it should lead to increased welfare for everyone, economic models rarely take the human experience into account. Being forced into a certain industry because it's the "thing" to do leads to a terribad experience for people who have no aptitude for work in that industry.

[Belize]

Recount and verification != throwing out votes

Right, which is why Republicans wanted 2.5 million votes simply thrown out.

Ok.

[Felya]

Not everyone can work in IT. A county needs to have a wide variety of jobs for people to be able to live a comfortable existence. Neoliberal globalization leads to only one logical conclusion and it's hyperspecialization. While on paper it should lead to increased welfare for everyone, economic models rarely take the human experience into account. Being forced into a certain industry because it's the "thing" to do leads to a terribad experience for people who have no aptitude for work in that industry.

High school kids in Poland... do you know any good polish jokes? But, you tell me that democrats think Americans are dumb? I am guessing Trump’s property all over the world and sending 2000 troops to protect Soudi oil, doesn’t count as neo liberalism? That’s America first?

[Wilfire]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/...rs/6437897002/

That's just one state. Inform yourself.

You can label it whatever derogatory term you want to but it does not change the substance of the issue. Disqualifying ballots is a decision that will be made by the courts. If they decide that they are to be disqualified, it's the right thing to do because the law says so. If they rule against it, then it's the right thing to do because the law says so. Settling an issue through the proper legal channels != throwing out votes.