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  1. #41
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    I don't get it what my parents have to do with it and what the "two wrongs" are, so thank you for being totally not patronizing.

    Let us talk "basic aesthetics". You are aware that the little mermaid is based on the book by Hans Christian Andersen where she is described as: "her skin was as clear and delicate as a rose-leaf, and her eyes as blue as the deepest sea." Didn't find anything on her hair colour this quickly. http://hca.gilead.org.il/li_merma.html

    But looks to me like the Disney Mermaid has green eyes. Does she have 5 siblings in the film? Do her feet hurt like walking on broken glass? Is she given the choice to kill the prince and become a mermaid again?

    If Disney messes with the material once...and people were fine with it, they can do whatever they please again...in fact they will (even if i dislike their choice to remake their animated 2D films as CGI / real life character versions)

    Also......guess you hate "The Boys" because they turn female comic book characters into males and vice versa and also change ethnicity of characters.
    Facts. Let's not start acting like Disney makes 1:1 adaptations of the story's the retell...or that stories can't be retold different ways...kind of like what Disney since they've been a thing...
    Last edited by PACOX; 2020-12-12 at 12:31 AM.

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  2. #42
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrcsRLame View Post
    I haven't seen The Boys but yes that makes me not want to support it.

    The wrongs in question are changing the source material. I thought that would be obvious based on the context of the discussion, but I guess not.

    But I guess in your mind Disney has not only a legal right, but more importantly, a moral right to change whatever they want about culture provided they have enough money to legally make that change happen.
    They didn't invent the story is the point, so they're just changing something that they had previously adapted (and taken liberties with) anyway.

    If I make an X-Men movie and turn their costumes turquoise and it's wildly popular and successful, and then I remake it later on and make the costumes purple, I'm only changing the change I had made. The valid argument re: aesthetics and being true to the original concept would disregard the turquoise costumes and the purple costumes and argue they should have always been yellow.

    Silliness.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  3. #43
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I'm just curious from a biological P.O.V. We know darker skin tones are caused by exposure to the sun, hence why people who live in more tropical climates are darker-skinned. How can a humanoid who dwells predominantly "under the sea" have dark skin pigmentation?
    The sea gets sunlight. Water doesn't stop you from getting darker.

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  4. #44
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Come on man. Let's not start acting like Disney makes 1:1 adaptations of the story's the retell...or that stories can't be retold different ways...kind of like what Disney since they've been a thing...
    That's the point though - they adapt stories. When you're adapting you're not copying all the details down and making sure it all matches - you take liberties. Liberties such as, for instance, changing the largely irrelevant skin color of a mermaid protagonist.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I'm just curious from a biological P.O.V. We know darker skin tones are caused by exposure to the sun, hence why people who live in more tropical climates are darker-skinned. How can a humanoid who dwells predominantly "under the sea" have dark skin pigmentation?
    They (mermaids) come up to the surface, they're not anglerfish. Really pallid sea creatures are generally the ones who never leave the sunless depths of the oceans.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  5. #45
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    That's the point though - they adapt stories. When you're adapting you're not copying all the details down and making sure it all matches - you take liberties. Liberties such as, for instance, changing the largely irrelevant skin color of a mermaid protagonist.
    I was going to initially respond to the person they quoted. Changed the first sentence to reflect that.

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  6. #46
    Over 9000! Kyphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    They (mermaids) come up to the surface, they're not anglerfish. Really pallid sea creatures are generally the ones who never leave the sunless depths of the oceans.
    Fair enough. @PACOX too.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Fair enough...guess Disney DOES know better what the generations of 2000something like. The money those films made prove them right...no arguing with monetary success, I guess.
    I was born in 86 and watched the original Lion King on the daily as a kid. It's not a 2000something thing.
    Last edited by Clone; 2020-12-12 at 02:07 AM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Hexian View Post
    I like how if we discuss that Ariel shouldnt be black it is considered racist, but if they were to cast a white actress for Mulan everybody would lose their fucking minds.
    Already done with "Ghost in the Shell."

  9. #49
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Casting seems fine. All of the argument “justifying” or “questioning” her skin tone for some lore reason are pointless. She’s a freakin fantasy creature; they can give her whatever skin tone they want.

    It’d be interesting to see if they work this more diverse heritage into a more diverse historical setting to suit, like the Mediterranean or Ivory Coast, rather than “generic Disney Europe” where the original more or less takes place.

    But all that being said, I just don’t think they should be making these remakes of already great films... period.

    If they are going to remake a movie, it should be one of their films where the original wasn’t that great, or one that had good elements but got bogged down by other stuff. Like Pete’s dragon. That original one is... really weird.

    For example... by all means remake hunchback of notre dame, keep all the stuff that works and cut out the doofy gargoyles or at least pull them more inline with the tone. There are fantastic themes that film sets up that a remake could actually capitalize on more.

    Remake Atlantis. That movie would be freakin’ sick in live action, and you could tighten up the plot and work it into a more dynamic film.

    But these already great movies being needlessly remade is... well, needless.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2020-12-12 at 02:43 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    I have no clue what this is supposed to mean, but I just knew Ariel was going to be black before opening this thread
    You and me both, dude. You and me both.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I'm just curious from a biological P.O.V. We know darker skin tones are caused by exposure to the sun, hence why people who live in more tropical climates are darker-skinned. How can a humanoid who dwells predominantly "under the sea" have dark skin pigmentation?
    Predators like sharks are dark on top so u can't see them when they stalk u from below, and white on the bottom so they become part of the light, the sun that hits the sea, so you don't notice that it's circling above you.

    Somehow I didn't consider redhead mermaids that sing with pet fishies n crabs needed predatory stealth mode..or is she hiding from predators? But isn't her father the king of the sea?

    Won't sell in China, did they forget that?? I guess they don't like money...go woke, go broke.

  12. #52
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexian View Post
    I like how if we discuss that Ariel shouldnt be black it is considered racist, but if they were to cast a white actress for Mulan everybody would lose their fucking minds.
    Arial is a mermaid. Mermaids do not exist.

    It’s like people arguing Santa Claus is white

    There is no lack of work for white actresses in leading roles in Hollywood. For black actresses... especially young ones in leading roles... that is not the case. Part of changing that stigma is to have people breaking those molds.


    That being said I think this movie is unnecessary, but the casting is not a reason why. In fact Them actually changing the setting to fit a more diverse cast to an area that would historically have had the same variable demographics would probably make the movie far more interesting.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Arial is a mermaid. Mermaids do not exist.

    It’s like people arguing Santa Claus is white

    There is no lack of work for white actresses in leading roles in Hollywood.
    How much work is there for white actresses for established roles that were black? I'd say none. zero. nada.

    So for one race all roles should be available, for whites it should be limited? which...is racist.

    Are they going to hire a white guy to play lando calrissian for the new disney+ show? Star Wars isn't real, lando isn't real.
    Last edited by Ihavewaffles; 2020-12-12 at 02:52 AM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Hexian View Post
    I like how if we discuss that Ariel shouldnt be black it is considered racist, but if they were to cast a white actress for Mulan everybody would lose their fucking minds.
    Because most roles are written for white actors. Making things more equal by giving roles to POCs is the opposite of racism. This is a classic example of people who have it good complaining about people with lesser means getting a freebie.

  15. #55
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    How much work is there for white actresses for established roles that were black? I'd say none. zero. nada.
    Usually because the historical reality of stories told about actual black people means that their race factored prominently into what they experienced. Because generally, they weren’t having a great time, because generally the history of black people has been pretty oppressive to them for reasons fairly directly linked to them being black.

    The generic medieval pastiche that the original Disney little mermaid takes place in is not so affected by its cultural trappings (where does it even take place beyond “generic Europe?”) or tone or intent by having arial be white to make changing her skin color some abrogation of the story.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2020-12-12 at 02:56 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    So for one race all roles should be available, for whites it should be limited? which...is racist.
    This is where you miss the point.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I'm just curious from a biological P.O.V. We know darker skin tones are caused by exposure to the sun, hence why people who live in more tropical climates are darker-skinned. How can a humanoid who dwells predominantly "under the sea" have dark skin pigmentation?
    Original Ariel (animated movie) having red hair makes no sense either. Being ginger and having freckless has to do with melanin, so does darker skin. If anything Ariel should be blonde, extremely pale, and muscular because water isn't air. There's a reason all the swimmer athletes are so fit.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    How much work is there for white actresses for established roles that were black? I'd say none. zero. nada.

    So for one race all roles should be available, for whites it should be limited? which...is racist.

    Are they going to hire a white guy to play lando calrissian for the new disney+ show? Star Wars isn't real, lando isn't real.
    Be real interesting to see a "different" Black Panther."

  19. #59
    I guess the world just pisses me off because god fucking forbid if there was ever a White cast in a historical Black character, people would lose their shit, and they do when race X is cast with a race Y - unless race X is White and race Y is anything but White.

    Now, I do fully understand the whole underrepresentation of Blacks in Hollywood, I do get that and I have no problem casting Blacks more in roles that aren't remakes. These aren't entirely new versions of the same story... god I just had the corporate world needing to pander to the woke crowd.

    In terms of this movie, is Ariel (you know the character that was White with bright ass red hair) suddenly going to be Black, with black hair? As-in it's an entirely different character? That's what I can't stand about the pandering. I get it though, cater to the lowest common denominator for the easy cash grab, but still.
    Last edited by alturic; 2020-12-12 at 04:22 AM.

  20. #60
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    I was born in 86 and watched the original Lion King on the daily as a kid. It's not a 2000something thing.
    With the 2000somethings I mean the people who watch and like the CGI remakes. Was probably not clear enough. I think they are an awful idea. But there is a (new) audience that clearly thinks differently.

    I guess that is why companies try to remake / restart older films. They think there is a new generation that would like a modernised take while the older generation often hates it (Robocop, Total Recall, Predator etc) - though generally remakes and re-imaginings have always happened. To the point that I guess people hate the 2011 The Thing for being "worse than the original". And forget that their "original" from 1982 is actually a remake / re-imagining from 1951's "Who goes there"

    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Facts. Let's not start acting like Disney makes 1:1 adaptations of the story's the retell...or that stories can't be retold different ways...kind of like what Disney since they've been a thing...
    Well..it wasn't me who started the whole "It must be faithful to the source material or I am out" thing. So you should duke it out with the guy I merely replied to and pointing out his hyperbole. I am well aware that stories can (and sometimes must / should) be told in different ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexian View Post
    I like how if we discuss that Ariel shouldnt be black it is considered racist, but if they were to cast a white actress for Mulan everybody would lose their fucking minds.
    It happened and ppl lost their mind..if not with Mulan (that controversy was political) then with Ghost in the shell over Scarlet Johanson being "too white" for the role. And then she got backlash again for being cast as a transgender but not being one (and quit).

    Next: Actors portraying characters with amputated limbs, terminal illnesses or paraplegic get shit because they don't have the illness they portray.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post

    In terms of this movie, is Ariel (you know the character that was White with bright ass red hair) suddenly going to be Black, with black hair? As-in it's an entirely different character? That's what I can't stand about the pandering. I get it though, cater to the lowest common denominator for the easy cash grab, but still.
    I repeat what I wrote earlier:

    Why then was the "white with bright ass blonde hair" Aquaman from the comics portrayed by a Hawaiian actor with darker skin and jet black curly hair not a problem?

    But maybe it was to you....

    I don't even have a defined line here what side I am arguing for, I try and ask about inconsistencies in arguments. Myself, I am totally no fan of a female Thor for example. OMG SEXIST PIG!!!!

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